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2012/11/26 19:02:51
Subject: Re:Possible future for education under Obamacare
It likely depends on the school. At my highschool, they spent a tonne of money financing our losing hockey and football teams, while every other department got sorely neglected. I remember taking my computer-based design courses on machines that were well over 4 years out of date.
Four whole years out of date?!?!
My heart fair fething bleeds for you. How about learning programing on a comupter that celebrates birthdays with you.
Spoiler:
This was discussed above, Fafnir said Design, which does require some good hardware
While I rode the end of the Floppy era, I remember buying a new game that came as a DVD when I only had a CD-ROM drive. Sad times
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/11/26 19:03:45
GW Rules Interpretation Syndrom. GWRIS. Causes people to second guess a rule in a book because that's what they would have had to do in a GW system.
SilverMK2 wrote: "Well, I have epilepsy and was holding a knife when I had a seizure... I couldn't help it! I was just trying to chop the vegetables for dinner!"
2012/11/26 19:06:40
Subject: Re:Possible future for education under Obamacare
Peregrine wrote: Common Misconception, Football if funded from mostly the parents AND local businesses.
That's not entirely true, Football and Men's basketball *can* be primarily self funded from revenue and recieve funding from Alumni funds and local boosters but they universally take money from the student athletic fund which is a madatory tuition fee. They also overpay thier coaches by several orders of magnitude.
Fafnir wrote:
It likely depends on the school. At my highschool, they spent a tonne of money financing our losing hockey and football teams, while every other department got sorely neglected. I remember taking my computer-based design courses on machines that were well over 4 years out of date.
Four whole years out of date?!?!
My heart fair fething bleeds for you. How about learning programing on a comupter that celebrates birthdays with you.
Did you completely miss the bit where he said "Computer Based Design"? Not "Computer Programming" you can code on an old computer, but if the course that you're studying relies on using up to date software, you'd hope that the place you learn would have computers that can actually use that software.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/11/26 19:09:19
Basically the Fourth Circuit is now instructed to stop punting the case and consider the actual constitutional arguments about the birth control mandate.
But, then again, if it reaches the SC, Justice Roberts will find something in the air to validate that mandate.
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
2012/11/26 19:21:44
Subject: Re:Possible future for education under Obamacare
Did you completely miss the bit where he said "Computer Based Design"? Not "Computer Programming" you can code on an old computer, but if the course that you're studying relies on using up to date software, you'd hope that the place you learn would have computers that can actually use that software.
did you completely miss the part where he whined about 4 year old computers in public schools?
Avatar 720 wrote: You see, to Auston, everyone is a Death Star; there's only one way you can take it and that's through a small gap at the back.
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
2012/11/26 20:42:02
Subject: Possible future for education under Obamacare
djones520 wrote:How is forcing people to buy insurance, or taxing them if they don't, thereby removing personal choice on the matter, a step in the right direction?
Because it will give people a sense of what it is like to always have health insurance.
Ah, no, no it doesn't. For some of us the fine is the less expensive route.
At my last full-time job, it would have taken my rent payment to get health insurance. At my current part-time status, it would take an ENTIRE part-time job to pay for it, above and beyond the two I am working just to have food on the table... and a place to put the table for that matter.
In neither case would I have any money to spare for copayments - a universal feature of any health insurance. So I'd STILL have no access to affordable health care. In that case... why give money to health insurance companies? At least the fine goes to the government, hopefully helping (in a small way) bring down the deficit.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
whembly wrote: Now... what I'm going to post isn't something new... as the old "problems" are still there and the ACA bill simply double-down on the current system, a private doctor's view:
Obama won, Obamacare is the law, and, as my wife says, I will just have to learn to dance to a new song.
Major Rant Editing for brevity
Obamacare and its 2,000-plus pages are here to stay. I will still give my patients 100% of my time, energy, and knowledge. I still love being a doctor — my patients’ doctor. I will, however, abide by the law and follow it to the letter. I will have to learn this new dance. “Free” has its price.
That doctor needs to go look for the source of "Obamacare." It wasn't his original plan, just the compromise he figured the Republicans would accept. His original plan was Single Payer. Obamacare is a nationalizing of a Massachusetts law put into effect recently... over the signature of then-Governor Mitt Romney.
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youbedead wrote: Relapse if it really bothers you then don't pay the fine, as the IRS was not given authority to enforce collection of the tax/fine.
I'll tell you how they'll do it. It will come out of any money paid to them, even if it is nominally for income tax. Then they'll come after you for not paying your income tax.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
MrScience wrote: I don't even know how you guys can mess up implementing health care for everyone properly.
Parts of US politics are so insane or bizarre I can't help but think I'm watching some kind of strange mockumentary.
So do those of us here who retain our sanity. Unfortunately there's only a few of us stuck in the middle...
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/11/26 21:00:45
CHAOS! PANIC! DISORDER!
My job here is done.
2012/11/26 22:16:11
Subject: Re:Possible future for education under Obamacare
Now... what I'm going to post isn't something new... as the old "problems" are still there and the ACA bill simply double-down on the current system, a private doctor's view:
Obama won, Obamacare is the law, and, as my wife says, I will just have to learn to dance to a new song.
Now, don’t get me wrong, Obamacare is awful. Forget all the “free stuff” it provides. Children covered on their parents’ plan until 26 years of age? A scam, making young adults — excuse me, children — pay for complete, comprehensive health insurance when all they need and should pay for is major catastrophe insurance. Then there is the “annual ” or “preventative” exam, which according to Obamacare is “free.”
You gotta love this stuff. I wish I had the chutzpah of the people who wrote Obamacare. What they did not tell you, and I am, is that it covers absolutely nothing more than the bare minimum.
I have now posted a notice in my office and each exam room stating exactly what Obamacare will cover for those yearly visits. Remember Obama promised this as a free exam — no co-pay, no deductible, no charge. That’s fine and dandy if you are healthy and have no complaints. However, we are obligated by law to code specifically for the reason of the visit. An annual exam is one specific code; you can not mix this with another code, say, for rectal bleeding. This annual visit covers the exam and “discussion about the status of previously diagnosed stable conditions.” That’s the exact wording under that code — insurance will not cover any new ailment under that code.
If you are here for that annual exam, you will not be covered if you want to discuss any new ailment or unstable condition. I cannot bait and switch to another code — that’s illegal. We, the physicians, are audited all the time and can lose our license for insurance fraud.
You, the patient, will then have to make a decision.
Do you want your “free” yearly exam, or do you want to pay for a visit which is coded for a particular, new problem? You can have my “free” exam if you only discuss what Obamacare wants me to discuss.
This happened to me personally, as a patient, when I went for my physical. It is the law. If you are complaining of a new problem, then you have to reschedule, since Obamacare is very clear as to what is covered and what is not. Obamacare — intentionally — makes it as difficult to be seen and taken care of as possible.
Patients can be very tricky. I have had patients make an “annual” exam, only to want to discuss and be treated for another ailment. I can’t do it.
I can hear the complaints from you guys already — I become the bad guy. “Why don’t you just take care of the problem, and not bill out any different code? You’re a rich doctor, and we are entitled to free stuff.”
It doesn’t work that way. First, doctors are not rich and, like most of you, actually work terribly hard for a living. Second, Obamacare is the law — and as I said earlier, we are audited all the time now.
Also — I don’t ask for free gas when I go to the gas station, or ask for free food from the supermarket. Additionally, Obamacare has a 23% cut in Medicare reimbursement to doctors and hospitals.
These lower payments won’t cover the cost of staying in practice to take care of the patient.
Private doctors are becoming a thing of the past. By 2014, less than 25% of physicians will be in private medicine. Obama was right in stating you can keep your doctor if you want to — the problem is he or she will rarely be available.
On top of all of that, doctors will be obligated — that’s right, obligated — to talk to you about things you may have no interest or need to talk about.
You may just want to have a pap smear or check your cholesterol. However, I am now mandated by the government to talk to you about your weight, exercise, family life, smoking, sexual abuse(!), and even to ask if you wear seat belts. And I am mandated to record your answers.
I am a physician. But I need to tell you to wear a seat belt and then record your answer.
I have received interesting responses from my patients since I put up the notice. Almost all are supportive and totally understand. The very few who complain? The same patients who always ask for free samples, who always complain that we do not validate parking. These are also the same patients who call my office and ask for free samples even when they are not even being seen.
Obamacare and its 2,000-plus pages are here to stay. I will still give my patients 100% of my time, energy, and knowledge. I still love being a doctor — my patients’ doctor. I will, however, abide by the law and follow it to the letter. I will have to learn this new dance. “Free” has its price.
1. That doctor is a douchebag; the equivalent of the teamster-electrician that won't turn a screw to open a fusebox because turning screws is the teamster-carpenter's job.
2. Apparently that doctor is unaware that a free annual checkup begins with the question "so how is everything?", etc. and when someone answers with "great, except for the rectal bleeding", it does not preclude the rectal bleeding from being a finding of the free annual checkup. Otherwise, that doctor seems to be under the impression that annual checkups don't actually involve checking anything.
3. In light of the previous points, nobody should care what that guy thinks. He appears to be the kind of guy that wouldn't throw you a lifejacket unless you agree to pay him $50.
whembly wrote:
MrScience wrote: I don't even know how you guys can mess up implementing health care for everyone properly.
Parts of US politics are so insane or bizarre I can't help but think I'm watching some kind of strange mockumentary.
It's not messed up.
Ya'll think we're in the dark ages.
No, but I do think there is an extremely vocal minority that wants to plunge your country into the Dark Ages (the Liars For Jesus camp). And there is an extremely vocal minority that wants to plunge your country into the Middle Ages, as well (the Neocon camp).
djones520 wrote:How is forcing people to buy insurance, or taxing them if they don't, thereby removing personal choice on the matter, a step in the right direction?
Because it will give people a sense of what it is like to always have health insurance.
Ah, no, no it doesn't. For some of us the fine is the less expensive route.
At my last full-time job, it would have taken my rent payment to get health insurance. At my current part-time status, it would take an ENTIRE part-time job to pay for it, above and beyond the two I am working just to have food on the table... and a place to put the table for that matter.
I was under the impression that the Obamacare premiums were going to be in the ballpark of $700 annually? How cheap is your rent?
2012/11/26 22:39:47
Subject: Re:Possible future for education under Obamacare
1. That doctor is a douchebag; the equivalent of the teamster-electrician that won't turn a screw to open a fusebox because turning screws is the teamster-carpenter's job.
In your opinion...
2. Apparently that doctor is unaware that a free annual checkup begins with the question "so how is everything?", etc. and when someone answers with "great, except for the rectal bleeding", it does not preclude the rectal bleeding from being a finding of the free annual checkup. Otherwise, that doctor seems to be under the impression that annual checkups don't actually involve checking anything.
Funny how you have an opinion on this... do you know how a doctor's office operate? Do you know how rigorous and coding needs to be done to file patient visit?
Have you ever visited a Dr's office in the states?
3. In light of the previous points, nobody should care what that guy thinks. He appears to be the kind of guy that wouldn't throw you a lifejacket unless you agree to pay him $50.
We should absolutely care what these Doctor's are saying/experiencing. Whether right or wrong, if the majority feels this way, then soon, there won't be any doctors left.
whembly wrote:
MrScience wrote: I don't even know how you guys can mess up implementing health care for everyone properly.
Parts of US politics are so insane or bizarre I can't help but think I'm watching some kind of strange mockumentary.
It's not messed up.
Ya'll think we're in the dark ages.
No, but I do think there is an extremely vocal minority that wants to plunge your country into the Dark Ages (the Liars For Jesus camp). And there is an extremely vocal minority that wants to plunge your country into the Middle Ages, as well (the Neocon camp).
djones520 wrote:How is forcing people to buy insurance, or taxing them if they don't, thereby removing personal choice on the matter, a step in the right direction?
Because it will give people a sense of what it is like to always have health insurance.
Ah, no, no it doesn't. For some of us the fine is the less expensive route.
At my last full-time job, it would have taken my rent payment to get health insurance. At my current part-time status, it would take an ENTIRE part-time job to pay for it, above and beyond the two I am working just to have food on the table... and a place to put the table for that matter.
I was under the impression that the Obamacare premiums were going to be in the ballpark of $700 annually? How cheap is your rent?
Sorta... $700 is the minimum... there's some fancy, schmancy calculation that can drive that higher.
EDIT: Fethed up the quote blocks... sorry.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/11/26 22:40:36
Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
2012/11/26 23:25:01
Subject: Re:Possible future for education under Obamacare
Did you completely miss the bit where he said "Computer Based Design"? Not "Computer Programming" you can code on an old computer, but if the course that you're studying relies on using up to date software, you'd hope that the place you learn would have computers that can actually use that software.
did you completely miss the part where he whined about 4 year old computers in public schools?
Considering there was enough funding for new hockey and football equipment every year for teams that were consistently loosing, I'd say that's a totally valid claim.
And I didn't whine about 4 year old computers in public schools. I whined about 4+ year old computers used in design courses where they can barely run the required software.
2012/11/27 03:41:04
Subject: Re:Possible future for education under Obamacare
Cheesecat wrote: Honestly I think a lot of countries are having problems with tertiary education I mean it's expected that you'll be collecting large amounts of debt from it and even then you're not guaranteed to be qualified for future careers.
$25,000 in debt isn't the same thing as $100,000 in debt. We might expect the former, you might expect the latter.
Such a high cost limits the number of people you can hope to educate, putting a hard cap on the number of skilled professionals in your future economy. That means engineers are more scarce, and therefore more expensive.
More and more economists are looking at highly skilled employees as the primary drivers of modern economies, and that means the nations with the best performing teaching institutions, particularly higher education institutions, will have the competitive advantage. And at present the US is spending a lot of money, but not delivering the best results.
Unfortunately, given the nature of the beast any reform would be a political nightmare.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Testify wrote: In the UK at least a lot of this problem is from the political desire to increase university eductation regardless of employability. It does somewhat gall me that an engineering graduate and a film studies graduate pay the same in fees, despite one of them being much more advtantageous economically.
I agree, though I think ideally a student should expect to come out tertiary education with a broad education, and job specific skills.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/11/27 03:45:46
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
2012/11/28 17:59:45
Subject: Re:Possible future for education under Obamacare
If it's still this high in midterm '14, might be a repeat of '10.
I wouldn't bet on it. In 08 the Dems held both houses and the Oval office. It was extremely easy to blame them for anything you wanted to if you were running in the midterm. The House will be decided based more on local politics like it usually is and if any Senators change it will be because of retirement or thier own poor campaigning. After what I foresee as two years of near total gridlock Im pretty sure most Americans will just be pissed off generally, not about healthcare.
Avatar 720 wrote: You see, to Auston, everyone is a Death Star; there's only one way you can take it and that's through a small gap at the back.
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
2012/11/28 18:09:19
Subject: Re:Possible future for education under Obamacare
If it's still this high in midterm '14, might be a repeat of '10.
I wouldn't bet on it. In 08 the Dems held both houses and the Oval office. It was extremely easy to blame them for anything you wanted to if you were running in the midterm. The House will be decided based more on local politics like it usually is and if any Senators change it will be because of retirement or thier own poor campaigning. After what I foresee as two years of near total gridlock Im pretty sure most Americans will just be pissed off generally, not about healthcare.
