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 Maddermax wrote:

 Ronin wrote:
I know a couple Aussie-based webstores that were looking into it, but I havent heard any updates regarding it and thus they're playing it safe and taking it off their online catalogue, for now. It's a good thing I stocked up as soon as I heard the news.

\

Here's a quote from one supplier, back to base-ix:

As many of you may be aware, the Australian Government has placed a ban on certain types of Rare Earth Magnets.

I will firstly direct your attention to the Competition and Consumer Act 2010 - Consumer Protection Notice No. 5 of 2012 - Imposition of Permanent Ban on Small, High Powered Magnets which can be viewed here:

http://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/F2012L02171

The ban is to cover a particular range of REMs when marketed and used in a particular fashion. An example of this being Neocubes and other magnetic puzzle type toys.

In regards to our own sales and uses in product development of these magnets we find ourselves falling outside of this ban.

To clarify, while our magnets (dependent on size) may fall inside both sections a) and b) of the Particulars of Consumer Goods (found in the above document), they do not fall into any of subsections i, ii, or iii of section c)

Our magnets are not:

i. a toy, game or puzzle (including but not limited to an adult desk toy, an educational toy or game, a toy, game or puzzle for mental stimulation or stress relief); or
ii. a construction or modelling kit; or
iii. jewellery to be worn in or around the mouth or nose.

So the ban on Modelling magnets in Australia has been somewhat exaggerated. We'll be fully able to get modelling magnets, no worries.

Meanwhile, the US is also banning these types of loose magnetic toys, suing Bucky Balls into closure, and Canada and New Zealand are moving to do the same, so good luck with that

That'd be great if he wasn't absolutely wrong about ii not applying.
But whatever. Obviously I'm exaggerating and have no idea what I'm talking about.

rigeld2 wrote:

 Maddermax wrote:

 Ronin wrote:
I know a couple Aussie-based webstores that were looking into it, but I havent heard any updates regarding it and thus they're playing it safe and taking it off their online catalogue, for now. It's a good thing I stocked up as soon as I heard the news.

\

Here's a quote from one supplier, back to base-ix:

As many of you may be aware, the Australian Government has placed a ban on certain types of Rare Earth Magnets.

I will firstly direct your attention to the Competition and Consumer Act 2010 - Consumer Protection Notice No. 5 of 2012 - Imposition of Permanent Ban on Small, High Powered Magnets which can be viewed here:

http://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/F2012L02171

The ban is to cover a particular range of REMs when marketed and used in a particular fashion. An example of this being Neocubes and other magnetic puzzle type toys.

In regards to our own sales and uses in product development of these magnets we find ourselves falling outside of this ban.

To clarify, while our magnets (dependent on size) may fall inside both sections a) and b) of the Particulars of Consumer Goods (found in the above document), they do not fall into any of subsections i, ii, or iii of section c)

Our magnets are not:

i. a toy, game or puzzle (including but not limited to an adult desk toy, an educational toy or game, a toy, game or puzzle for mental stimulation or stress relief); or
ii. a construction or modelling kit; or
iii. jewellery to be worn in or around the mouth or nose.

So the ban on Modelling magnets in Australia has been somewhat exaggerated. We'll be fully able to get modelling magnets, no worries.

Meanwhile, the US is also banning these types of loose magnetic toys, suing Bucky Balls into closure, and Canada and New Zealand are moving to do the same, so good luck with that

That'd be great if he wasn't absolutely wrong about ii not applying.
But whatever. Obviously I'm exaggerating and have no idea what I'm talking about.

Indeed. you don't know what you're talking about. This is a magnetic modelling kit:


The ban does not apply to magnets sold separately that might be used with a model. The ban also requires that the magnets be sold AS a toy or modelling kit, so even if they tried to include all magnets specifically sold for use in model kits (but which are not model kits), we could still buy the magnets from places which don't sell them as for modelling purposes. That's the WORST case scenario, and we still have magnets available to us as we please.

They are trying to ban a very narrow range of products which have started becoming popular recently and have caused deaths and serious injuries. It is not a general magnet ban. Also, the US is already moving against magnet producers (and was before we declared this ban) of the same toys, and Canada and New Zealand are considering it as well.

The FAQ once again:

What is a “magnetic object” in relation to the permanent ban on small, high powered magnets?

Answer
A magnetic object is a magnet or an object which has the same physical properties of a magnet. A magnetic object is not intended to be an object which contains a magnet, such as a travel chess piece which has a magnet embedded into its base, but where the rest of the object is not magnetic.

I make toys for children which contain small, high powered magnets – is my product now banned?

Answer
Not necessarily. Your product will be captured by the ban if the magnets in your toy are loose and separable and:

are small enough to fit into the small parts cylinder used in the mandatory standard for toys for children up to and including 36 months of age
have a magnetic flux of 50 or more
are marketed by the supplier as, or supplied for use as any of the following:
a toy, game or puzzle (including but not limited to an adult desk toy, an educational toy or game, a toy, game or puzzle for mental stimulation or stress relief)
a construction or modelling kit
jewellery to be worn in or around the mouth or nose.

If magnets are used in a toy, they will not be captured by the ban as they will not be supplied as separable or loose magnets.

However your toy may be subject to the mandatory standard for toys containing magnets. This mandatory standard requires any small high powered magnets which are embedded in children’s toys to have a warning label.


I’m an importer of small high powered magnets. I supply these magnets to other companies. I don’t ask what the magnets will be used for. What happens if a customer sells magnets purchased from me as a desk toy for consumers?

Answer
For the ban on small, high powered magnets, it's the use intended by the supplier and not the consumer which is relevant. Suppliers, whether they are retail or wholesale suppliers, are not obliged to enquire about the intentions of their customers."

As long as the retailer isn't marketing these items as "a toy, game or puzzle (including but not limited to an adult desk toy, an educational toy or game, a toy, game or puzzle for mental stimulation or stress relief), a construction or modelling kit or jewellery to be worn in or around the mouth or nose", they can continue to sell them. It's not their concern if you, the purchaser, decide to use them in one of those categories.

Are any fridge magnets covered in the ban on small, high powered magnets?

Answer
Many fridge magnets consist of a magnet which is embedded in another object such as plastic or a plaster mould. These fridge magnets are not subject to this ban. In addition, most fridge magnets are sold as singles rather than in multiples and would not satisfy the requirement that the product consist of at least two loose or separable magnets.

Finally, most fridge magnets are ferrous magnets, which are relatively weak and would be unlikely to reach the magnetic flux measurement specified in the ban.

So the ban wouldn't even apply if GW decided to put out a modelling kit which contained pre-attached magnets molded and glued in, as they wouldn't count as loose or separable (but would still have to comply with other relevant measures of models/toys sold with magnets, which means a warning label and appropriate marketing).

I should also like to point out that the ban is, as of today, in effect, and I can still freely buy magnets for models.

I'd like to apologize - I misread c. as saying marketed for use with, not marketed for use as.

And being able to buy magnets even with the ban in effect doesn't matter - it just means that if applicable the place you bought them from could face fines.

Again, I'm sorry for the misunderstanding.

http://www.productsafety.gov.au/content/index.phtml/itemId/998000/fromItemId/997517

Product Safety Australia wrote:
Are small, rare earth magnets used as components in tabletop wargaming miniatures considered to be “marketed by the supplier for use as, or supplied for use as, a construction or modelling kit” under the ban on small, high powered magnets?

Answer
For the purposes of this ban, a "construction or modelling kit" does not include construction or modelling kits where the magnets are supplied merely as components to be inserted into other objects.

Fantastic that they have clarified that. And quickly, at that.

Oh, those Australians! Funny to see three pages of hand-wringing and criticism, though!

Can we get the OP of this thread retitled? Or appended, perhaps with "(only not)"

As allways, the game rules lawyers try to apply gaming logic to real life questions... and fail every time.

I have changed the subject wording to calm this topic down... it is becoming clearer as the government answers questions directed by gamers... I am still waiting for my question to be answered.

You may not remember that the government banned some guns which became ALL guns...

You may not remember that the government banned sharp scissors and nail files on planes which became ALL nail clippers (even if they didn't have a nail file)...

You may not remember that the government banned "Bindies" a toy using wet beads to make objects and jewelry which was replaced by a similar type...

But you never know... there are no rules to "lawyer" about in these cases.

I only brought you the start of this government decision made without clear explanations and without consultation... obviously hindsight will be clearer... as it is

We were lucky... so it seems

The END

Mik

 Lord Castellan Mik wrote:
You may not remember that the government banned some guns which became ALL guns...

No they didn't. They just changed the licensing rules, and banned unlicensed guns.

You may not remember that the government banned sharp scissors and nail files on planes which became ALL nail clippers (even if they didn't have a nail file)...

...which was subsequently changed back again several years ago. Nail clippers are allowed on flights.

You may not remember that the government banned "Bindies" a toy using wet beads to make objects and jewelry which was replaced by a similar type...

They recalled them due to some unintended sideeffects of one of the chemicals used in them. This was corrected and the toy was reissued. There was never a permanent ban.


And I'm not really seeing what any of that has to do with rare earth magnets.

I see Insaniak has already answered with essentially the same reply I was about to type....

Also, gun laws are State laws, not Federal.

Hi all

I was a messenger of news that could have affected our gamming industry dramatically and due to poor wording by the Government, some of our suppliers stopped selling them.

That was it... That was everything

I further gave comment that the Australian Government were quick to "knee jerk" and listed a few examples.

The emphasis was on misguided and incomplete statements by the Government... this banning could have been massive... but wasn't (so far)... I was an observer, not a participant.

Thanks for the support.

Mik

P.S. for the few...

In 1997, Prime Minister John Howard, then newly elected, immediately took the gun law proposals developed from the report of the 1988 National Committee on Violence and forced the states to adopt them under a National Firearms Agreement. This was necessary because the Australian Constitution does not give the Commonwealth power to enact gun laws. The proposals included a ban on all semi-automatic rifles and all semi-automatic and pump-action shotguns, and a tightly restrictive system of licensing and ownership controls.
The federal government continues to be involved in adding or adjusting restrictions via the Attorney General's Department, using the customs power and consultation with states.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Australia

Yes, “Pointed metal nail files (including nail clippers)” were removed off the Prohibited Item list in Dec 2009 after over 8 years of being totally banned.
http://travelsecure.infrastructure.gov.au/domestic/prohibited_items.aspx

Yes, the Australian Toy of the Year 2007 survived an Interim ban lasting 6 months
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bindeez

 Lord Castellan Mik wrote:
I further gave comment that the Australian Government were quick to "knee jerk" and listed a few examples.

The Bindees thing was not a 'knee jerk' reaction. The product was recalled because it poisoned kids who swallowed it. When the problem was corrected, it was released. That's exactly the process for any toy that turns out to be dangerous.

Likewise, the ban on nail clippers was not a 'knee jerk' reaction. It was a side effect of loose wording on the ban of nail files, and was never particularly stringently enforced.

And you'll find any number of people who, once their own 'knee jerk' reactions wore off, feel that the current gun laws are much better than what we had before. There is simply no reason for most people to have the sorts of weapons that are restricted under the new laws.

Of those three, the Bindees recall is the only one that has any relevance to the actual topic at hand, and ultimately a recall on a children's toy that is a direct result of children being injured or killed by that toy is not a 'knee jerk' reaction.

... this banning could have been massive...

It really couldn't. If a few wargamers suddenly found themselves unable to legally source magnets for sticking their tank turrets on, that would have barely registered to the world at large.

But it was unlikely to happen anyway, since loose magnets were never the actual target of the ban. You're trying to build this into something bigger than it actually is.

Im kind of glad that I dont live in Australia, their government seems to be run by helicopter parents

DkLnBr wrote:
Im kind of glad that I dont live in Australia, their government seems to be run by helicopter parents

Because banning a toy aimed at children that may kill or maim those children is being overprotective...?

DkLnBr wrote:
Im kind of glad that I dont live in Australia, their government seems to be run by helicopter parents

Just like Canada and the US then. The US has banned them, and Canada is investigating them, and will be looking at possible action on the issue soon. Good luck with that.

 insaniak wrote:

DkLnBr wrote:
Im kind of glad that I dont live in Australia, their government seems to be run by helicopter parents

Because banning a toy aimed at children that may kill or maim those children is being overprotective...?

BAN BICYCLES, CHILDREN CAN RIDE THEM INTO TRAFFIC

also:
water, children can drown
clothes, children can suffocate
food, children can choke
shoelaces, children can trip and fall on their head
playing outside, children can get germs that will make them sick
trees, children can get a stick and poke their eye out



Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'd also like to point out that Buckyballs have never been marketed to children and in fact require you to break a seal to open the package that says, adults only not for children. While admission of idiocy and inability to parent correctly is humorous, banning a product's sale due to idiocy and NOT because of an actual safety issue is the prime example of the nonsense of a cradle-to-the-grave nanny-state.

5. If these magnets are dangerous for children, why do you sell Buckyballs and Buckycubes as toys?
We don't sell them as toys for children. We sell them as products for adults and go to considerable lengths to make sure they are kept away from all children. In fact it is virtually impossible to open the packaging of one of our products without seeing the warnings.

6. What do you do to make sure Buckyballs and Buckycubes are kept away from children?
We have a firm Safety Policy that we follow. Our program has three key goals:
•To promote Buckyballs and Buckycubes for sale to adults only.
•To educate adults to keep them away from all children.
•Not to act in a way that encourages children to buy or use our products.

7. What are you doing to achieve these goals?
•To minimize the potential for sales to children, we are selective about the retailers to whom we sell; we have strict requirements regarding where and how they are displayed; and we remind retailers that sales personnel be trained appropriately.
•To educate adults who buy them to keep them out of the reach of children, we place warnings at least five times on each package; and we have warnings on the online purchasing section of our website where the consumer must check a box recognizing that this product is not a toy and is not intended for children.
•To avoid stimulating children's demand, we do not advertise, market or sell to children.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Has anyone in this thread actually seen Buckyballs for sale? They are sold in packaging that shows that they are magnets. Buckyballs are sold as an adult desktop stress-reliever.

It is a package that contains rare-earth magnets.

If you don't think any ban on what Buckyballs are - a package of rare-earth magnets, and that's it - won't extend to a very very similar looking package of rare-earth magnets being sold in a hobby store, think again. A media-mongering politician will grab ahold of a story about the mother of a poor, innocent little boy who bought a package of magnets to go with his Warhammer toys and ate them and THEY DIDN'T KNOW, how were they SUPPOSED TO KNOW that magnets STICK TOGETHER dear jebus ban them all for the safety of the CHILDREN think of the cHILLLDddreeeNNN

... interestingly, under the horrible wording of this ban, Buckyballs can put a sticker on the package that says "Buckyballs. You know... for Hobbies. Buckyballs is a construction or modelling kit where the magnets are supplied merely as components to be inserted into other objects (BUT NOT YOUR FACE HOLE)"

This thread is full of hilarious patriotism...
"Australia sucks.'
'How dare you insult my country! The U.S. sucks!'
'You die in Australia.'
'You die more in the U.S.'

Just don't go there on holidays if you really think their country's laws are that harsh.
Thanks guys for providing some entertainment.

Not sure if anyone mentioned this, but these magnets really are very dangerous to small children. This is a responsible public health measure, and not at all any kind of nanny stateism. This is to stop people using them in toys for young children in ways in which the magnets can come loose and be swallowed.

No being responsible is making a state sponsored program where you teach parents how to store stuff to keep them out of the reach of kids and what kind of toys you should buy for your kids.
This is being overy protective.
Also, Everything is dangerous to kids, that's why you have to watch them constantly.