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Althornin wrote:

 Dr H wrote:

 p_gray99 wrote:
What about just having one of these but with a propulsion system attached? Obviously slightly modified so as to explode when inside the target, but we're nearly there already...

Good find.

Didn't know they existed.

We already have the propulsion system as well, since the 1960's:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyrojet

Of course, there are some obvious problems with bolters and fluff - mainly, that they do not suck at short range, as they should if relying on a rocket propulsion (speed should increase as distance traveled increases, until propellant charge is completely used up). This should mean that a bolters penetration capability would start at "zero" range being kinda crappy, go up until a certain optimal distance (propellant charge used up) and then start decreasing again as air resistance slows the round (unless you are in space )

I think I've seen those before, but good find.

And good point.

Althornin wrote:

 Dr H wrote:

 p_gray99 wrote:
What about just having one of these but with a propulsion system attached? Obviously slightly modified so as to explode when inside the target, but we're nearly there already...

Good find.

Didn't know they existed.

We already have the propulsion system as well, since the 1960's:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyrojet

Of course, there are some obvious problems with bolters and fluff - mainly, that they do not suck at short range, as they should if relying on a rocket propulsion (speed should increase as distance traveled increases, until propellant charge is completely used up). This should mean that a bolters penetration capability would start at "zero" range being kinda crappy, go up until a certain optimal distance (propellant charge used up) and then start decreasing again as air resistance slows the round (unless you are in space )

Depends on who is writing. Some of the BL writers talk about bolters "still having enough force to penetrate on the initial charge" or bouncing off targets at to close arrange.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Lynata wrote:
Better yet, HEAP is one of the available ammunition types for the AA-12 fully automatic shotgun. Still my favorite real life almost-bolter equivalent. Even has nearly the same caliber!

Looks alot like some of the old round drum bolters and FW's nwe heresy bolters.

Dr H wrote:If deuterium was incorporated into the crystal lattice of platinum (or palladium as I noticed on wikipaedia) it wouldn't burn until it escaped the metal. As for something to burn you need oxygen, and that wouldn't be able to get into the lattice to mix with the deuterium quickly enough (I'm not even sure if oxygen would be able to penetrate the crystal lattice) to react sufficiently to be considered burning.

Oh well. So much for that theory, then.

Althornin wrote:Of course, there are some obvious problems with bolters and fluff - mainly, that they do not suck at short range, as they should if relying on a rocket propulsion (speed should increase as distance traveled increases, until propellant charge is completely used up). This should mean that a bolters penetration capability would start at "zero" range being kinda crappy, go up until a certain optimal distance (propellant charge used up) and then start decreasing again as air resistance slows the round (unless you are in space )

Given that bolters are essentially "hybrid guns" somewhere between a full auto shotgun and a gyrojet/RPG launcher, it kinda works out. The question is whether the force from the first stage propulsion (piezo-electric ignition of base propellant) is sufficient to penetrate advanced armour at point-blank - but since I'm still going by the 2E Wargear book stating that the projectile leaves the barrel at "low speed", I'd rather theorise that the 2nd stage propulsion (internal rocket motor) kicks off the moment the bolt clears the barrel, and can bring the projectile to high speed comparatively fast thanks to the "boost" from the 1st stage.

It's kind of clever, really. Eliminates one of the few issues of the gyrojet guns by allowing the rocket motor to start out on a higher base velocity rather than requiring it to propel the projectile from idle state, with a comparatively slow speed increase. :3

< Taken by the void dragon. >

Where's a GW writer when you need one eh, I agree with you Che-Vito, it would indeed be grimdark.

 Che-Vito wrote:

 Dr H wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:


On the other hand, deuterium packs really, really well into platinum's crystal lattice, which can make a really, really dense chunk of matter; a deuterium/platinum core would operate on the same principles as depleted uranium; I'm assuming that's what they intended because it makes more sense than miniature fusion explosives.

True. But that would make it a really good hydrogenation (deuteration) compound, which might mess with the explosive in the main charge (you'd at least have to ensure they stayed separate).

There's easier ways to make a dense core. And if it's such a good dense core, why replace it for adamantine for the greater penetration rounds...

And I doubt the people writing it would have thought about platinum's crystal lattice, they would have mentioned it if they had.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to say that it makes sense... I'm just trying to rationalise why.

A self propelled mini-fusion bomb fired from an fully-automatic gun is, most definitely, crazy talk, but then so is most of the 40k universe...

Keep 'sciencing', it makes for a good read.
I do wish that bolt shells were radioactive in some way, it would certainly help add a new kind of 'dark' to the universe, that doesn't involve more skulls.

Imagine Space Marines being even more destructive than they are. Right now, they just may cause a *lot* of collateral damage if they help out your planet. It's another matter entirely, if their 'rescue' means irradiating often-vital locations.

With the size of bolt shells and the nature of the nuclear reaction in question, there would be no real radiation danger. The bolt shells would not be "dirty" weapons.

The nuclear warheads of our current century are dirty because the nuclear reaction of the bomb leaves a significant portion of the radioactive materials behind as waste. It isn't a complete reaction. This leftover material continues to emit high levels of radiation over time, making the area dangerous to be in.

In the case of a more complete reaction, like what would happen in the bolt shells, there would be only the initial burst of radiation.

If you were to detonate a nuclear bomb that was 100% efficient. IE: 100% of the radioactive material underwent Fission/Fusion, the area where the bomb was detonated wouldn't be contaminated. It would only be dangerous to be around immediatly during and after the explosion. But after a few days the area would be safe, it would just be devestated.

So ironically, the bigger the blast of a nuclear bomb, the less dirty it is.

Bolt shells, even if they were dirty, simply wouldn't leave enough radioactive particles behind to be a major danger.

For arguements sake lets say over a billion bolt shells (they maybe fire more but it's a nice round number ) were fired in the compliance of a world and the shells weres slightly dirty, would that be enough to contaminate the air, soil or both?

bolters are like the most complicated thing. everything a space marine has its really sophisticated bolters dont need air to fire i know that specificily and they could order a couple hundred pizzas while doing it too.

 Themanwiththeplan wrote:
For arguements sake lets say over a billion bolt shells (they maybe fire more but it's a nice round number ) were fired in the compliance of a world and the shells weres slightly dirty, would that be enough to contaminate the air, soil or both?

Unless they were all fired in the same general area there wouldn't be enough to cause a radiation hazard.

So maybe a spear tip aproach to cut off the head of the planets leaders would end up contaminating the city/hive, or is that still a too wider area?

It would require a week long firefight over a single city block to cause any real contamination of that area. And even then it would only be dangerous with prolonged exposure.

The radiation concern is a non-issue.

Cheers Grey Templar.