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 L'Etat C'Est Moi wrote:

 Dave_Fay wrote:
How'd things go?

Results?
QTY players?
Army Lists?

Thnx.

I am with Dave. Who took home the glory? Did Dok get his lascannon? How main brains did the zombies eat? Oh the suspense!

The zombies ate 5 of my Grey Hunters, .. maybe six. It was the blasted Helldrake that did the rest, for Game Two anyway.

Sorry, but all I can recall is Ken (IG) Bestsportsman, and Jake took top dog (Daemons, I think). Steve pulled off Best Army, IIRC (CSM and daemons?).

I assume Dis will post "official" results later but here are some non-specifics.

22 players, good showing! Next time in April we will make it 40 right guys?

The shift towards more boots on the ground meant that very, very, few games finished or even got past turn 4. I am a fast player, Dave and I played a 2000 pr game in 1h 15min before, and none of my games went to turn 5 within the time limit of 2hr15min.

The BAO mission really stratifies the results. There were a lot of people winning games with 5,6,7 points rather than 10,9,8. I am not sure if this is by design or not. Perhaps Reece could weigh in? Also the long game times make me seriously question the 1750 points level. I have never been a proponent of smaller games, I always was in favor of bigger is better in 40k but if the current trend of super slow foot armies with tons of shooting continues my opinion on the points level may be changing.

I managed to have all three of my games go to Turn 5.

Caveat:
My first game was a bit slow to get started and it caused me to miss the extra 30 minutes of Beer Time ( called Lunch Break by some folks, whatever ) That's an important thing and it needed to be said and taken in to account; TOs should be aware of this and schedule Beer Time accordingly.


Seriously,
I agree (as OverWatch and others stated) that 1750, in a foot-slogging meta, with 6e's more Rule Heavy play (that is, more crap to remember to do as you play, eating up more time, e.g. Wall of Death + OverWatch, etc), is a wee bit too long. Instead of a sharp drop to 1500, perhaps 1600 or 1650 might be a less drastic tightening of the time belt.

Then again, why complicate the fix? I can't remember if it's marines, army or just Armed Forces in general, but K.I.S.S.

Keep It Simple, Stupid.

1500 might be a really good idea, especially for 4 Games-in-a-Day GTs.

You guys may have missed the fact that BAO missions are NOT battle points, they are W/L/D with Swiss pairings, meaning that with 22 players, you should have played 5 rounds (probably time prohibitive, I know) and the winner would have been the individual that went 5-0.

If you win a game by 1 point or 10, you still only win. The points in the game are only to track who won (just like Football, Baseball, etc. if you win by 1 touchdown, or 20, you still just win). Accumulated points are used for rankings within a given bracket. For example, if two players finish 2-1, the one who accumulated more points will rank above that player, but still below a third player that went 3-0 but may have had less points.

If you only have time for 3 rounds, then you can use a Battle Point format, but it is not designed to be played that way.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and as for points levels, yeah, 6th plays way, way slower. We would like to go 1500 (as we have been told point blank by game designers that that is what the game was built to be played at) but the community is resistant to it.

1750 is as low as we have been able to convince people to go despite the fact that a lot of people don't finish games at that level. When people understand the mission, we find that we have about 90% of the games finish in time at 1750, though, which is acceptable.

 Reecius wrote:
You guys may have missed the fact that BAO missions are NOT battle points, they are W/L/D with Swiss pairings, meaning that with 22 players, you should have played 5 rounds (probably time prohibitive, I know) and the winner would have been the individual that went 5-0.

If you win a game by 1 point or 10, you still only win. The points in the game are only to track who won (just like Football, Baseball, etc. if you win by 1 touchdown, or 20, you still just win). Accumulated points are used for rankings within a given bracket. For example, if two players finish 2-1, the one who accumulated more points will rank above that player, but still below a third player that went 3-0 but may have had less points.

If you only have time for 3 rounds, then you can use a Battle Point format, but it is not designed to be played that way.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and as for points levels, yeah, 6th plays way, way slower. We would like to go 1500 (as we have been told point blank by game designers that that is what the game was built to be played at) but the community is resistant to it.

1750 is as low as we have been able to convince people to go despite the fact that a lot of people don't finish games at that level. When people understand the mission, we find that we have about 90% of the games finish in time at 1750, though, which is acceptable.

We know the BAO is w/l/d we just couldn't run it Swiss style.

You still use the "bp" for tie breakers though right? So only winning with 5 points a game will mean if you get to the top table and tie, you probably lose. Not a highly probable situation, I know, but it does certainly effect list design. I don't dislike mission, I dislike the way it makes me play. Does that make sense? Hopefully it does, obviously we need more practice with the missions too!

Maybe after this years BAO you will have an easier time convincing people to play 1500. I may even be on your side this time Reece!! See you in March.

I had an ok day at 2-1 with a list I threw together in the morning. Steve beat all the odds and swung the game from a minor victory in my favor to a huge victory in his in the second round. It was an excellent game though and if I hadn't been so hung over I might've been able to play it a little smarter. I'm still waffling on BAO attendance though. Brian doesn't want to go and my GF can't, so I may have to shack up with one of these weirdos if I want to go.

wow I must say that last round I played was a tough pill to swallow but this tourney revitalized my passion for this game had an awesome time to bad I didn't get that BAO ticket

OK cool, glad you guys understand the mission, but yeah, in a pinch you can play BP if you need fewer rounds.

And yeah, haha, we realized quickly that 1500 would be perfect, but no one wants to play 1500, so we try and cram it all in at 1750 or 1850 and people then get mad because games don't finish on time! Doh! Hahaha, it's tough to please everyone, or even most of the folks.

@thread

Don't waffle on attendance too long, we're coming close to selling out on tickets!

 Reecius wrote:
OK cool, glad you guys understand the mission, but yeah, in a pinch you can play BP if you need fewer rounds.

And yeah, haha, we realized quickly that 1500 would be perfect, but no one wants to play 1500, so we try and cram it all in at 1750 or 1850 and people then get mad because games don't finish on time! Doh! Hahaha, it's tough to please everyone, or even most of the folks.

@thread

Don't waffle on attendance too long, we're coming close to selling out on tickets!

You're not the boss of my waffling!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Fine, I'm in. Apparently you are the boss of my waffling.

Muahahaha! Call me the waffle lord!

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xiashang56 wrote:
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Lol thanks ChinaSpamBot

We actually would have had a qualitative result after four rounds, but we were not set for an event longer than three rounds. So, BPs it was. Still a great event, and I hope everyone had a great time and got a good taste of the BAO missions.

Official tally is as such:

top spot: Jake / chaos daemons
Second: Steve /tyranids
Third: Chris / necrons
Renaissance man: Ben / Dark eldar
Best army: Sen / imperial guard
Best sportsman: Ken / imperial guard

For my part, I like the mission format when it is run Swiss style, overwatch and I have played a few with it now and it's fine. 1750 is too slow, there's just so many little things to worry about, and stack a foot horde meta on top of everything and it is a bit much. I'm thinking 1500 Will be the standard for my local events for a while longer, unless we do something different.

Again, great time, Im looking forward to the next one! Congrats to the winners and thanks to everyone who came out!

Ok guys, I have updated the first post with this month's event! Nutshell version:

1500 points - $10 entry - 3 Rounds

We'll be using the GE tournament format, so slightly modified book missions, nice and simple.

Prizes for Best General, Best Army, and Best Sportsman, among others.

Get your models together and get down here!

1500. Sweet!

Re - Number crunching my list already!

So Ill most likely be a dead man from playing in the Temecula Midnight madness tournament the night before. But if I can make it there in time Ill play as well. Might be late for the first round so we'll see. But 1500 sounds good, change things up a bit.

C'mon Mike! You bring dem Orks, I'll bring dat coffee!

Oh I can be there, its the time issue of their tournament ending around 10am-ish and yours starting at 10am-ish. I will also have my ork terrain table with me. So if you guys give me a buy for the first round if I can't make it in time Ill more then happily play the remaining two games and have an awesome table of scenery for you guys. Let me know

Fox

of course man. We'll work it out so you can attend, and I'll see if I can cobble together some sort of Man of Ceramite award for you for all the driving and games played in such a short period of time.

Sorry guys I can't make this one. I have new student testing Saturday morning. Good luck to you all.

Let us all know how 1500 goes, I am starting to think that may be the 6th ed tournament sweet spot.

@disdainful What's the ruling going to be on hurricane bolters and banner of devastation for this tournament?

 Dok wrote:
@disdainful What's the ruling going to be on hurricane bolters and banner of devastation for this tournament?

Hurricane Bolters, Twinlinked bolters, and Combi bolters, are all pretty clearly included for the Banner of Devastation.

The real question is Stormbolters, and Heavy Bolters.

Under the header "BOLTGUNS" in the BGB (p.56), all bolter weapons are included, including storm bolters and heavy bolters.

Just my $0.02, I won't be there anyway but that's my interpretation of the Banner of Devastation. If GW FAQs it to work on Tactical Termies look out.

Well, I want to make sure that Travis is on the same page as to what is "pretty clear" so I don't bring a list that would work in theory, but not in the saturday tournament.

 Dok wrote:
Well, I want to make sure that Travis is on the same page as to what is "pretty clear" so I don't bring a list that would work in theory, but not in the saturday tournament.

This is a tough one, honestly.

Strictly RAW, the Salvo Stick makes the modification to *every* gun that fires a bolt, from pistols to vulcan megas, as all of them are under the 'Boltguns' heading the in BRB.

I don't think that's what GW meant. This, of course, means that I'm making a personal judgment call, but them's the breaks. For the February event, the Salvo Stick affects Bolters. This means that it does affect Crusader Hurricane Bolters, but not bolt pistols, Storm Bolters, or Heavy Bolters.

I know that the range of the Banner is only 6", and that could be the balance. As ever, I am happy to hear people's opinions on the matter; if there's a reasonable argument that the banner affecting every boltgun in the game is a correctly balanced element of the DA codex, I'm all ears. Bear in mind that RAW, in this case, is not a sufficient argument. We all know there's been plenty of gaffes from GW predicated on their imprecise use of their own terminology.

That sounds like a fair ruling. Its a rather nasty power, including all the bolter category just sound OP.

It's very difficult to build a deathwing list with everything I want at 1500. Damn you gw for making the units cost more and making hammers cost points!!!

It's one of the things I like about 1500; you have to make some choices in listbuilding for most armies, instead of getting to fill all the slots relatively easily.

How'd it go? I couldn't make it, unfortunately. RL smited me.

So is there no tournament in March?

 Dok wrote:
How'd it go? I couldn't make it, unfortunately. RL smited me.

Andy - Overal (IG)
Steve - Best sports (bugs)
Mike - Best paint (screamer/flamer spam)

 MikeFox wrote:
So is there no tournament in March?

There is a normal RT in March and then another special "mini GT" in April.