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 sebster wrote:
The Pastor did something you aren't supposed to do in her line of work. She still has her job.

The waitress did something you aren't supposed to do in her line of work. She got fired.

The moral of the story here is to get yourself a job with some kind of status to it, because then when your unprofessional behaviour becomes an internet phenomenon nothing happens to you.

This man speaketh the truth!

A Christian pastor goes out of her way to make a mean, low down remark to someone working a lower class job.

Unless she's some kind of "Christian" that I've never heard of, that's a clearly sinful thing to do.

In the kind of Christianity with which I'm familiar, adherents aren't expected to be perfect. Indeed, there is a fundamental assumption that we'll feth up like this pastor did. Along with that assumption comes some helpful advice on what to do about it: love your neighbor, don't let the sun set on your anger, forgive your brother seven times seventy times, blessed are the peacemakers, turn the other cheek, etc, etc, etc.

But I never heard it said, have them fired. I never heard, go and exact revenge. As I recall, it is the Lord alone who can say, vengeance is mine.

If this pastor felt ashamed upon seeing her receipt posted up I suppose she ought to consider why. And I hope, every time she sees this story make its rounds, that she feels ashamed all over again. Unlike demanding that someone or everyone be fired, feeling shame is not a punishment. Shame has a reason: it's a sign you've gone off the rails and an opportunity to get back on track.

I hope the next story written on this is, "pastor contacts insulted waitress, apologizes, helps find her new job."

Yes, that would be a most satisfactory development.

I know I, for one, would receive the warmest of fuzzy feelings.

 Manchu wrote:
A Christian pastor goes out of her way to make a mean, low down remark to someone working a lower class job.

Unless she's some kind of "Christian" that I've never heard of, that's a clearly sinful thing to do.

In the kind of Christianity with which I'm familiar, adherents aren't expected to be perfect. Indeed, there is a fundamental assumption that we'll feth up like this pastor did. Along with that assumption comes some helpful advice on what to do about it: love your neighbor, don't let the sun set on your anger, forgive your brother seven times seventy times, blessed are the peacemakers, turn the other cheek, etc, etc, etc.

But I never heard it said, have them fired. I never heard, go and exact revenge. As I recall, it is the Lord alone who can say, vengeance is mine.

If this pastor felt ashamed upon seeing her receipt posted up I suppose she ought to consider why. And I hope, every time she sees this story make its rounds, that she feels ashamed all over again. Unlike demanding that someone or everyone be fired, feeling shame is not a punishment. Shame has a reason: it's a sign you've gone off the rails and an opportunity to get back on track.

I hope the next story written on this is, "pastor contacts insulted waitress, apologizes, helps find her new job."

WE've disagreed in the past, because you didn't understand that I was right, but in this instance we are completely of the same mind.
Hey I like it here, can I borrow your mind in the future?

 daedalus wrote:
What's cost of living like there though? While 80k would be considerably comfortable single salary range in STL, if DC is anything like NYC, I understand 80k to not be that much, especially if you live in the city and such.

DC's nowhere near as bad as New York. 80K's pretty decent around here.

Manchu wrote:A Christian pastor goes out of her way to make a mean, low down remark to someone working a lower class job.

Unless she's some kind of "Christian" that I've never heard of, that's a clearly sinful thing to do.

In the kind of Christianity with which I'm familiar, adherents aren't expected to be perfect. Indeed, there is a fundamental assumption that we'll feth up like this pastor did. Along with that assumption comes some helpful advice on what to do about it: love your neighbor, don't let the sun set on your anger, forgive your brother seven times seventy times, blessed are the peacemakers, turn the other cheek, etc, etc, etc.

But I never heard it said, have them fired. I never heard, go and exact revenge. As I recall, it is the Lord alone who can say, vengeance is mine.

If this pastor felt ashamed upon seeing her receipt posted up I suppose she ought to consider why. And I hope, every time she sees this story make its rounds, that she feels ashamed all over again. Unlike demanding that someone or everyone be fired, feeling shame is not a punishment. Shame has a reason: it's a sign you've gone off the rails and an opportunity to get back on track.

I hope the next story written on this is, "pastor contacts insulted waitress, apologizes, helps find her new job."

This is exactly the kind of Christianity with which I'm familiar.

While I won't make an assinine claim that all self-identified Christians are represented by this, I will say that in my experience, Christian churches are as full of these kinds of holier-than-thou-despite-being-a-d-bag types as Seattle is full of people in skinny jeans.

@Frazzled: if I am aware of an automatic 18% gratuity being charged to my bill due to the size of my party, and I still choose to eat at the restaurant, then I have agreed to pay for that gratuity in the same sense that I have agreed to pay the menu price tag for each item. It is not optional. That receipt clearly shows the total, followed by the 18% gratuity charge (which was scratched out by the Pastor), followed by the Pastor's authorization to pay only the total without the gratuity. The Pastor clearly reneged on the tacit contract to pay the 18% that was to be charged for her party of 18+

It is optional if its a tip. If its a "service charge" thats more debatable.

Frankly, I've not had an issue in this area. If I am with a group of people and am paying with my own money (OMG!!!) then its a place I like and they'll already be getting at least that. If I were receiving poor service it would have never made it to the bill, as I would have informed the manager (ok everyone in the restaurant) long before that, and left already. But again, if its my dime, then I'd already be at a place with appropriate service to begin with.

Can we get off the Christian thing, else I'll go anecdotal too about the pricks I've known who've been atheists and how they treated people. Pricks come in every flavor.
And I agree this lady sounds like a real peach. . .

Frazzled wrote:Can we get off the Christian thing, else I'll go anecdotal too about the pricks I've known who've been atheists and how they treated people. Pricks come in every flavor.
And I agree this lady sounds like a real peach. . .

Absolutely. I'd much rather judge people to be d-bags on a jackass-by-jackass basis.

 azazel the cat wrote:

Frazzled wrote:Can we get off the Christian thing, else I'll go anecdotal too about the pricks I've known who've been atheists and how they treated people. Pricks come in every flavor.
And I agree this lady sounds like a real peach. . .

Absolutely. I'd much rather judge people to be d-bags on a jackass-by-jackass basis.

There you go. Same here

Automatic service charges are already put into the bill, regardless of whether she scratched it out or not doesn't change the fact that the service charge was still part of her total, and her total was paid. She did not dine and dash. Yes, she acted in a regrettable manner, but the waitress was fired for a normal and expected reason. She shouldn't have posted the receipt.

From what I know waiters and waitresses in the US need tips to make up their salary so they can afford to live...
Not tipping seems pretty harsh in that regard.

I hate the idea that I'm morally required to leave a tip regardless of how things go. If a waitress is crap, then she gets a crap tip. If she pisses me off, she get's no tip.

The pastor may or may not have been a bad customer. Oh well, you deal with like 30 or so plus a day. Just because you have one bad customer experience doesn't mean you have to go crying to reddit about it. Perhaps a lesson will be learned from this, but I doubt it.

 Necroshea wrote:
I hate the idea that I'm morally required to leave a tip regardless of how things go. If a waitress is crap, then she gets a crap tip. If she pisses me off, she get's no tip.

I'd agree with you, if that didn't mean that the person had to become homeless for lack of revenue. Seriously, 3.01 minimum wage is monstrous.

Who is morally required to pay a living wage to restaurant workers?

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Who is morally required to pay a living wage to restaurant workers?

Who is morally required to pay a living wage to restaurant owners?

Ultimately, I suppose, patrons of the restaurant?

Indeed. The restaurateurs can only do so if patrons are prepared to part with the required money. (Subject to reasonable profit margins, and so on.)

If a server pisses me off I leave a commiserate tip in pennies. I mean if I didn't tip these people would go homeless. I keep a bag of pennies in my car for special occasions. $2.50. I actually haven't left it for well over a year.

To paraphrase Tevia,"God bless and keep the pastor...as far from me as possible!"

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Who is morally required to pay a living wage to restaurant workers?

It's a company's responsability to manage the quality of the service they offer. Just because they are working in a food service industry doesn't magically mean that it's okay for that crappy server to survive on cat food while the crappy telecom customer service rep get a fat 16$ an hour. If the server offer bad service, the employer should tell him to put on a smile, or start searching for another job, all the while paying him what is reasonable.

Also, I like living in a land where automatic gratuity seems to be non-existent.

Everybody seems to be missing something else here

Why don't they just change it so Wait-staff are paid minimum wage + tips as extra?

Personally I'm definatly in a waitresses earn tips, but they actually make semi-reasonable money here.

Necroshea wrote:I hate the idea that I'm morally required to leave a tip regardless of how things go. If a waitress is crap, then she gets a crap tip. If she pisses me off, she get's no tip.

The pastor may or may not have been a bad customer. Oh well, you deal with like 30 or so plus a day. Just because you have one bad customer experience doesn't mean you have to go crying to reddit about it. Perhaps a lesson will be learned from this, but I doubt it.

Uh, that Pastor was the payer for a party of 20+, which means that was basically the waitress' entire evening.

 AustonT wrote:
If a server pisses me off I leave a commiserate tip in pennies. I mean if I didn't tip these people would go homeless. I keep a bag of pennies in my car for special occasions. $2.50. I actually haven't left it for well over a year.

There are two occasions in my life when I have not left a tip.

I tend to tip 20%, as norm. 15% if they were not up to par, 10% if they were shoddy. It takes a real piece of work to get no tip from me.

I can't remember the last time I didn't leave a tip (at a non-fast food place, of course).

I agree that waiters/waitresses at most restaurants don't get paid gak. Get your degree or plumbers/electrician certificates, kiddos!

 kronk wrote:
I can't remember the last time I didn't leave a tip (at a non-fast food place, of course).

I agree that waiters/waitresses at most restaurants don't get paid gak. Get your degree or plumbers/electrician certificates, kiddos!

I can, from about two years ago. The waitress pissed me off that much. There's only been two times I've ever not left a tip. One of those places I've not been back to, and the other place I've turned and left when she was the only person serving. I normally tip 20%, sometimes more, and you have to feth up bad to get less than that.

 Kovnik Obama wrote:

 Necroshea wrote:
I hate the idea that I'm morally required to leave a tip regardless of how things go. If a waitress is crap, then she gets a crap tip. If she pisses me off, she get's no tip.

I'd agree with you, if that didn't mean that the person had to become homeless for lack of revenue. Seriously, 3.01 minimum wage is monstrous.

Good servers make a lot more than minimum wage, and if for some reason they average less than minimum wage during including their tips during a pay period, the employer has to make up the difference. The reason the minimum wage for tipped employees is lower is because they end up making a lot more overall. If they're not good enough to make decent tips, they won't hold the job for long anyway.

 daedalus wrote:

 kronk wrote:
I can't remember the last time I didn't leave a tip (at a non-fast food place, of course).

I agree that waiters/waitresses at most restaurants don't get paid gak. Get your degree or plumbers/electrician certificates, kiddos!

I can, from about two years ago. The waitress pissed me off that much. There's only been two times I've ever not left a tip. One of those places I've not been back to, and the other place I've turned and left when she was the only person serving. I normally tip 20%, sometimes more, and you have to feth up bad to get less than that.

Usually I round up to the nearest dollar, and then put on a couple of dollars (generally ranging between 15 and 20%), I've given a bad tip under 2 occasions, both were at the same bar. The first was when I was basically ignored by our server and ended up serving myself by going to the bar, and putting in my drink order, etc... I did write a note on my check explaining it, the second time was roughly the same situation, but she charged me extra drinks, she would have earned herself about a drink's price in tip, but I had to argue with her showing her time stamped photos of the drinks I was having (I had been overcharged there before, but couldn't prove it), she fixed the check, and I gave her a dollar tip when she brought my corrected check with a crap attitude. There has only been 1 time in my life when I didn't give a tip, but it was because I had a coupon for a free meal for my bday, and since I didn't order a carbonated beverage (cut it out of my diet, so I only drink water now), and since I didn't have a price attached to my meal, I couldn't give a tip (I rarely carry cash), so one of my buddies covered my tip and then I paid him back.

While in Vegas, we ate at one of the restaurants in the Tropicana, and they charged a party of three 20% gratuity on a bill, and the service was crap, my dad almost gave them a tip on top of that, and I had to stop him.

 Alfndrate wrote:
but it was because I had a coupon for a free meal for my bday, and since I didn't order a carbonated beverage (cut it out of my diet, so I only drink water now), and since I didn't have a price attached to my meal, I couldn't give a tip (I rarely carry cash), so one of my buddies covered my tip and then I paid him back.

Ah, yeah. Forgot about those. The pub (as pubish as American places get, I suppose) my roommate I frequent has loyalty cards that effectively give you 10% of your bill to a future visit, but if you pop the whole thing on your entire visit, then you can't tip, so he and I worked out a deal where the other one tips double on those cases, so it's all good.

As our service staff are paid a living wage I tend to only pay a tip for good service, generally up to about 10%. There have been a few times when I have not had any cash on me and wanted to leave a tip and they couldn't add a tip onto the bill to be paid by card, so I just remembered to bring extra cash the next time I went in there.

This is a typical example of Internet outrage.
I saw the post on Reddit and just shrugged. There will be jerks out there, no need to get bent about it, and certainly don't post it unless you want to get fired.
Then of course the gangs on the internet get all high and mighty about it, I'm sure most because it was a Pastor that did it (religion=evil to this group of people), blowing one small thing into a national crisis.
People if you want to get upset, get upset that the serving industry is set up the way it is. That restaurants pay minimum wage and defend this because of tipping.
I'm a generous tipper, usually about 20%, but I'm never going to look down on a person who refuses to tip.