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I do not like them.

You need to charge for the powerfist.

You got the TH/SS & LC mixed up. TH/SS is WAY better then LC. Do not refer to the original post, post the suggestion here.

Do not have armoured ceramite upgrade option on a landraider dear god! It will be feth all for all the armies that rely on melta out there. (That is a lot.) The only landraider that has that cost 300+something points, can not transport as much and is not an assault vehicle and it is unbalanced as hell.

I do not see any fluff reason why they would have the hammer of vulkan rule. It is just a gimmick rip off.

The anvil of war rule is WAY to good, or you need to pay through the roof for it. The dark angel rule it is based upon gives bonus to bolters. A relatively bad weapon. Not only that but very few of them will have bolters as stormbolter/powerfist will probably be non existent on the dark angel terminators. Hammer shield is so much better, same with special weapon. The hammer rule is just NUTS.

I am not reading blacksails post so post them here instead,

I copied it from what blacksails made I raver yours do you have you any idea for a version of deathwing kinghts salamanders it would be much aprecated if you did.
Thanks wargey.

wargey wrote:
I copied it from what blacksails made I raver yours do you have you any idea for a version of deathwing kinghts salamanders it would be much aprecated if you did.
Thanks wargey.

They did summarize this pretty well in that other thread. Might have actually been Blacksails too, who said it. You don't need to make your own version of a "Deathwing Knights" unit. They are DWK,and will always be DWK. Not Firedrake Knights. I think if you are doing a Firedrakes based army, as in Armageddon era, go about and just concentrate on PA FD troops, TDA FD elites(or troops with Tu'Shan) and then Hvy Support from the Mechanicus branch and that stuff. If you're going just Sallies, minimalize FD units, because you're going to concentrate on Salamanders as a whole, not the 1st company.

So if you are making the chapter in general, please would you mind merely either adding that combined Tactical/Assault terminator unit andmaybe, MAYBE another terminator unit option. No more. Then you should do PA FD and be done with the 1st company.

What you are now trying to do is just a Codex: Firedrakes.

 Niiai wrote:


You need to charge for the powerfist.

Which powerfist? Termies come standard with them.

You got the TH/SS & LC mixed up. TH/SS is WAY better then LC. Do not refer to the original post, post the suggestion here.

My original post wargey is referring to had both options listed at +5pts, which really only makes lightning claws more expensive, for fluff reasons. I was thinking out loud when I said they could have the hammers for free, +5pts for TH/SS is still fine for them.

Do not have armoured ceramite upgrade option on a landraider dear god! It will be feth all for all the armies that rely on melta out there. (That is a lot.) The only landraider that has that cost 300+something points, can not transport as much and is not an assault vehicle and it is unbalanced as hell.

The armies that rely on melta are all the marine codices, and Guard. All the others have other anti-tank weapons that use other means to crack AV14. Within those armies that use melta for close range anti-tank, most of them can also take Land Raiders with termies to counter our Land Raider with termies. Those armies also have access to lascannons, which while not nearly ideal, serve the same role.

However, consider this. No one buys a Land Raider for the weapons it has. They buy it as a reliable Termie delivery system. If you need to kill my Land Raider with melta, the Land Raider has already done its job, and you'll have more important issues on your hand to deal than a handful of bolter shots and an assault cannon. Armoured ceramite priced at +30pts (what I think is fair) makes a 250pts investment even more expensive. Factor in the cost of the Firedrakes inside all with TH/SS, and you have 245pts + 280pts = 525pts. In a 1500pts army, you would have one. Then you'd have less than 1000pts to spend on the other essentials, while your opponent will have 1500pts of firepower to deal with that raider and its cargo.

So no, its not unbalanced. Melta is not the only anti-tank gun in existence, and shooting only got better in 6th. Again, if you're shooting melta at a Land Raider in your own lines, its already done its job and you have bigger issues than an AV14 box.

I do not see any fluff reason why they would have the hammer of vulkan rule. It is just a gimmick rip off.

Its to simplify the relationship with the unit I used as a template. If I were to remove the rule I'd make the squad cheaper by about 10pts. I wouldn't use the word gimmicky, as its exactly what DA have, just adapted to the Sallies. And there's plenty of fluff justification for it.

The anvil of war rule is WAY to good, or you need to pay through the roof for it. The dark angel rule it is based upon gives bonus to bolters. A relatively bad weapon. Not only that but very few of them will have bolters as stormbolter/powerfist will probably be non existent on the dark angel terminators. Hammer shield is so much better, same with special weapon. The hammer rule is just NUTS.

Again, over exaggeration. It is literally a once per game effect on the first round of assault. If you really want, it can only apply to the first assault if the Sallies got the charge. One singular round of combat where they get re-rolls. This is slightly better than what we can currently do with Vulkan, the difference being that Vulkan gives them re-rolls all game long and this is for a singular round of combat. So no, not nuts. Not even remotely. Yet you somehow dismiss re-rolls from Stormbolters, who can have the banner of devastation, giving a 5-man squad 20 re-rollable stormbolter shots. Multiply that for every squad that will arrive at the same time and near eachother. Seriously devastating.

The hammer rule is far from being nuts.

Wow hold your horses blacksail. A lot of venom coming through between the lines there.

I would sugest for wargey and any other people interested to start playtesting as soon as you have enough of a codex skeleton ready. An HQ, some troops, transport, some fast attack/heavy suport/elites and just try 1000 and 1500 games.

 Niiai wrote:
Wow hold your horses blacksail. A lot of venom coming through between the lines there.

I would sugest for wargey and any other people interested to start playtesting as soon as you have enough of a codex skeleton ready. An HQ, some troops, transport, some fast attack/heavy suport/elites and just try 1000 and 1500 games.

No venom, just the nature of my posts. I get straight to the point. Any bolding or italicizing is purely for emphasis. I'm all for you disagreeing, so I explained my reasoning. Feel free to explain yours.

Should I give vangaurd SQ a multi melta option
I was thinking all the same but with stubborn and hatred dark eldar also being able to use inferno pistols and hand flamers.
I was thinking allowing them to have all heavy support and elite as they are the elite 1st company.

wargey wrote:
Should I give vangaurd SQ a multi melta option
I was thinking all the same but with stubborn and hatred dark eldar also being able to use inferno pistols and hand flamers.
I was thinking allowing them to have all heavy support and elite as they are the elite 1st company.

Vanguard vets don't take heavy weapons. They're close combat specialists.

The problem with a 1st company codex is that you limit yourself to elements of the 1st with only a handful of support. Assuming troops would be ordinary vets in power armour with a few options, your support would basically look like this;

HQ
Pretty standard selection; captain, chapter master, libby, chappy, so on

Troops
Ordinary veterans with no special anything. Picture a tac squad, but all Ld9 with two attacks base. They'd have more options obviously, but no special rules.

Elite
Sternguard Vets
Possibly termies (thinking they'd be heavy support in a pure 1st company codex)
Dreads

Fast attack
Vanguard Vets
Speeders

Heavy support
Land Raiders
Preds, Vindis, tanks and stuff
Possibly termies

Now, that's assuming its literally a purely 1st company codex. You could have a character (Tu'shan) who makes termies troops instead, but I'm just throwing ideas out at this point.

Ok look at the spoiler pleas before you assume sterngaurd are troops as are firedrakes if you take Tu'Shan. It will be more of a support army insted of a tactical army.

wargey wrote:
Ok look at the spoiler pleas before you assume sterngaurd are troops as are firedrakes if you take Tu'Shan. It will be more of a support army insted of a tactical army.

I honestly don't know what you're trying to say here. Are sternguard troops? Are firedrakes troops? If you want my help, you are seriously going to have to put in more effort in communicating properly on your end.

I also 100% believe you shouldn't have a Deathwing Knight unit. Really doesn't make a lot of sense. Hell, I even went on record to say that I still think Firedrakes should be represented as ordinary termies from C:SM, and not the Deathwing termies. But a lot of people wanted something more special, so I showed them what could be done.

But you really don't need a Deathwing Knight copy.

There not they are the prye gaurd (lexacanium) they are just using DWK as a template.
Sterngaurds are troops and if you take Tu'Shan so are firedrakes.

I would suggest, as Blacksails said, that you do something different from the Deathwing Knights. Create a unique unit, that isn't to say you couldn't take the Shield Wall rule they have and adapt it, but don't make them a copy. Particularly, the Pyregaurd should not have the deepstriking rules for the Knights. I would suggest keeping the shield wall if you are looking for a solid defender unit, like an escort. The WS5 and 2 Wounds could be taken or left, but definitely drop the deepstrike rule.

Ok I think the no scatter 2nd tearn is ok due to the salamanders skill at building things and ties with the macanucs.
Edit: all prye gaurd lose tearn 1 deep strike but gain vulcan's saviors
Vulcan's saviors
All there thnderhammer attacks gain flesh and amour bane

wargey wrote:

Vulcan's saviors
All there thunderhammer attacks gain flesh and amour bane

And each would cost like.... 50-70pts or so? Thunder hammers always cause stun (or shake, can't recall) results if they glance or penetrate. Armourbane would make it happen a lot. The TH also nearly always wound on 2+, so the fleshbane would only make them useful against Nurgle daemons or Tyranids, whom are two armies out of 15.

So... No. Not that rule.

Ok how dose this sound
Cult of promeathus
All thunder hammer attacks are master crafted.

wargey wrote:
Ok how dose this sound
Cult of promeathus
All thunder hammer attacks are master crafted.

Master crafted, per definition(AFAIK) allows to re-roll one roll of a per turn. In "to hit."
All attacks can't be, but all thunder hammers master crafted would mean all TH re-roll one "1" to hit.

No master crafted means you can re role one miss per person

wargey wrote:
No master crafted means you can re role one miss per person

I just fething said that. You said "All Thunder hammer ATTACKS".
That is against the effect of the rule...

Sory ment any thunfer hammer is mc