Let's discuss "sergeants"

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**GrimDork**

That seems right? It could be done as a way to prevent overkill, perhaps.

**Hobowan**

varl wrote:

I see how this works for characters using slow weapons like power klaws and power axes. I'm fuzzy on how you could apply this idea to shield a character using a faster weapon, though. say you have a space marine sergeant with a power sword. he goes on the same init step as the rest of his squad. if he's far enough away to not be challenged, he's not close enough to be able to contribute to the combat after pile-in moves, right?

it would still work - place the sergeant 5" back (hard in a small squad ofc), so he cant be challenged. Then when his initive step occurs, move him into 2" of your brave frontline marines and he can then swing his powersword

remember - the challenge happens before the init step, so stay out of the way there, and then when it is his turn he can then move to combat and swing.

not sure if this thread has mentioned it - got distracted by orky goodness - but its very interesting too for chaos folk who want to avoid their enforced challenges.

**AresX8**

Not necessarily Varl. Remember that a model doesn't have to be base to base in order to make attacks, but he can also be 2" away from a model that is base to base so he can make attacks. Essentially this means, with a pile in move, a character that is 5" away from a combat when it starts can make attacks.

EDIT: I suggest that you lay out two units and start a combat so you can figure out the best distance to keep away characters that you don't want in challenges. Correct positioning to not allow him to accept challenges depends highly on the unit's size. This trick might not work in a 5 model unit.

**varl**

d'oh, totally right. I forgot about the "Challanges are issued at the start of the Fight sub-pahse, before any blows are struck" part. so this strategy could work for any initiative step. very good to know as a chaos player

**Xadakk**

Griddlelol wrote:
Xadakk wrote:

Blob squad with power axes is pretty effective...swamp with basic guard, then have somewhere between 4 and 20 Str 4 Ap 2 attacks landing from the Sergeants. This should be enough to put a hurt on quite a few things.

In what way are they effective? You have a large squad made of paper that in a world of focus fire and 5+ cover you'll be making Ld checks constantly. A world where where you can't deplete a squad rather quickly and taking wound from the front means you have to hide your Sergeants at the rear. Decent enemy shooting can essentially recede your advance, especially if you're spread out to maximum coherency to mitigate blasts.

You'll be lucky to get them into the 1st round of combat with a 3" pile in, from the rear, at I1, i.e. after the 10-20 other guardsmen have left you no room to get your axe toting sergeants within 2" of a guardsman already in B2B.

This is antagonised even more when you consider the weaknesses death stars have inherently - getting fed cheap units, getting challenged by characters, only able to kill 1 unit per turn, easy to ignore and moving incredibly slow in the case of a blob. It leaves the power blob reliant on allies for mediocrity at best (specifically Azreal) and a useless points sink at worst.

12 guardsmen have to die in the FIRST round of shooting to loose the 25 percent to force a morale check, furthermore you take a commissar or a Lord Commissar and those checks don't matter, also the blob can multi-assault rather well. Also, you would have to be pretty stupid to not get those Sergeants into combat on the first round of combat...at least IMO that is, proper micro managing while moving and covering where you lost casualties should ensure they make it. Making effective use of cover which is normally 4+ in my local gaming store, means they get there pretty well. Yes you loose alot across the board, but if you have Tanks supporting then you should get there with about 30-35 guardsmen.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Inquisitor Jex wrote:
Ah, no; with WITH the HWTs, but close-by so they can use the Lord commissar's 6 inch Ld10/stubbord bubble when they get orders.
Having Ld10 for those HWTs sure helps getting FomT and BiD with more reliability than Ld7.

Of course if I do this, it may well be a naked Lrd Commissar, no point in spending 15 pts for a PF I may not end up using.

Okay, i was lost for a bit hahaha. Yeah, that LD 10 is pretty crucial in making those Bring It Down! orders. I usually take a Lord with my army, helps for keeping squishy guardsmen from running so easily, and Stubborn is a nice addition to a squad.