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I hope so. Im so sick of the GK super fan boys pleasuring themselves to the Draigo fluff. Its just so over the top its silly.

Unfortunately however it probably isnt.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:

 Manchu wrote:

Here's another question: Does corruption require consent?

It depends, those who want to be corrupted allow it.
Those who do not have to fight against it and in those kind of scenarios corruption doesn't require consent. That is also the scenario for Grey Knights.

We have seen time and time again that it does NOT require consent. Primarchs fell to the lure of chaos because it is cunning and doesnt reveal itself until it is too late. Thats what makes it so deliciously eeeviiiil. Anything is possible with chaos.

Put it this way, even if it wasn't true, isn't it the kind of thing Slaaneshi daemons would lie about?

Same with Draigo -- even if all his supposed exploits were false, isn't that the kind of propaganda and legend that grows up in all parts of the Imperium?

So basically, Slaanesh heard the GK were saying these lies about Draigo fething up stuff in the Warp and so he made up some other lies about how Draigo now worships Slaanesh ... and this is closer to what happened IRL as between two codex writers ...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Thatguy91 wrote:
it does NOT require consent. Primarchs fell to the lure of chaos ...

I definitely agree that Chaos does not need your consent but the traitor Primarchs aren't the best example of that ...

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
Was it 'little does he know he's already fallen' or 'he's already fallen' or 'he will fall into this trap'???

More like "he meets Slaanesh face to face, can't bring himself to stab the pretty thing, kneels instead and lets Slaanesh knight him"

Of all the thing's for slaanesh to do when you kneel in front of him, knighting you was not the one I would expect him/her/it to do.

It's obviously a euphism for what he did with his gun sword of ectoplasmic goo.

The real question is...

Was it a Longsword, an Eviscerator, or just a Powerblade?

You think Slaanesh is only using one sword at a time? Ha!

 Manchu wrote:
(you still haven't told me what you mean by corruption)

Want the simplest answer ( even if I already gave you one ): corruption takes the form of contrasting a pure spiritual form with a corrupted manifestation in the physical world. Also, corruption is the process of ceasing to exist and is closely related to the concept of dying given certain views about the nature of living things. So we have corruption in terms of twisting ideals and turning them into exact opposite of that ( normal man to murderer, painter to lunatic, honorable warrior into butcher etc... ) and corruption in terms that it is something that kills you slowly until you are no more. In 40k terms both cases can be applied as when daemons and Chaos forces "corrupt" you they mutate your body until you are unrecognizable and if they are strong enough they actually kill your personality and claim your soul.

If so, then you must also be saying that a GK can become corrupted -- just that he cannot willingly do so. Unless you also use the "purity card" to say that they can't even be corrupted against their will ...

I meant for their souls, I already know that their bodies can be corrupted. My point was for their souls, Chaos cannot corrupt their souls because they are to pure to be corrupt. Plus, their souls are guided when they die and supposedly go to the Emperor and become one with him. That is what the codex meant, no Grey Knight fell to temptation of Chaos, when he was alive and after he died on the battlefield.

My bigger problem with that argument is that it assumes this awesome purity of the GK -- but where does that come from? This ties back to the question of the Emperor and ultimately what the definition of corruption is. We have to know what corruption means to know what pure means OR we have to know what pure means to know what corruption means.

Geen-seed taken directly from Emperor gives them some bonuses and the fact that they are praying and killing every set of emotions they can for their entire life is what makes them so resistant.

So, they are somehow more pure than the Primarchs, who are all the direct sons of the Emperor... it can even be argued that each of the Primarchs was a clone of the Emperor... and yet half of them willingly turned to Chaos?

To be fair, before the Heresy, there wasn't such a constant threat of Chaos corruption. I'm pretty sure the Primarchs turned partly because they didn't understand what Chaos was exactly and didn't have 10,000 years of training to prevent corruption.

Exactly ,Primarch had no idea about Chaos while GK are constantly to fight it.

While that may be the case, if you can make a guy 100% immune to Chaos and Corruption, isn't a better use of that technology installing them as Planetary Governors, thus ensuring that key Imperial Worlds never fall prey to corruption, greed, and incompetence?

40k has enough massively glaring errors and holes without you poking more into it.

 Psienesis wrote:
While that may be the case, if you can make a guy 100% immune to Chaos and Corruption, isn't a better use of that technology installing them as Planetary Governors, thus ensuring that key Imperial Worlds never fall prey to corruption, greed, and incompetence?

There are ~1.000.000 worlds and only 1.000 Grey Knights ( thank you Ward ), and Grey Knights were made for two things - war and resisting Chaos corruption.
To run a world you fist need to be politician and not solder, furthermore Grey Knights are quite expensive to 'made'. Only one of million psykers survive to become grey Knight, and that only after centuries of training and training and training. It is comon knowledge taht their training is hard even for ordinary Astartes, so I have nothing more to say there.

And why sue them when you have something better - Inquisitors who can also protect their mind with their psychic powers.

IMO, GK are better... as a story-element... if they are 100% immune (by training, through faith, through wargear, through vile ritual preparation) to the physical effects of Chaos, but must remain ever-vigilant against the mental effects, the temptations of Chaos, that can turn all that they've been working towards to ruin.

The temptations of Chaos can be very subtle, and have effects that ripple through centuries, even millennia, long after the person who originally fell has left the mortal plane. Things like "take up this blade, be the greatest of the Emperor's Champions!" seems like a straight-forward sort of deal... but this invites jealousies, rivalries, and all sorts of other issues that can compromise what the GK are about, and so each individual GK must be on guard against these all-too-human frailties.

There's other forms these subtle temptations can take, and I think the fact that the fluff keeps pointing us towards the fact that "in 10,000 years, not one of their number has ever willingly turned to Chaos" indicates that it's *possible*, it just hasn't happened yet.

There are ~1.000.000 worlds and only 1.000 Grey Knights ( thank you Ward ), and Grey Knights were made for two things - war and resisting Chaos corruption.

Then put them on only the most-important worlds. Make them the Overlords of Segmentums. Don't even bother to tell Macragge that they have a new boss. Just drop some GKs off with a sign that says "We're in charge now." Calgar's obviously done a pretty good job running the worlds of Ultramar... maybe he can show these GK nubs how it's done. Or is the GK gene-seed insufficient for bureaucracy and governance? Why, then, was Guilliman's not?

And why sue them when you have something better - Inquisitors who can also protect their mind with their psychic powers.

If Inquisitors are so good, why spend the resources on GK?

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
Grey Knights are not incorruptible.

"Each Grey Knight is an accomplished, powerful psyker whose psychic presence is anathema to creatures of the Warp. They are trained to channel their psychic energies into a halo of protective wards known as The Aegis. Thusly armoured, a Grey Knight's presence becomes unpalatable to Daemons, making him immune to corruption, able to wield forbidden black magic, harness tainted artefacts and scour blasphemous tomes all without risk of being overwhelmed by the cursed power of Chaos. The Grey Knights hold a unique honour among the chapters of the Adeptus Astartes - in over ten thousand years of service, not a single one of their number has ever defected to Chaos."

Fluff disagree with you.

This is where it falls. Grey knights may be incorruptible to daemons but the knight in this story is not in front of a daemon. He is in front of the chaos god making it quite easily so that anyone could be corrupted

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:
corruption takes the form of contrasting a pure spiritual form with a corrupted manifestation in the physical world

You're defining a concept by introducing another concept, the definition of which relies on the first concept. "Dark is the opposite of light because light is not light.

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:
corruption in terms that it is something that kills you slowly until you are no more

That's getting to a definition but seemingly not a very good one. For example, being corrupted by Nurgle means, in its extreme form, that you are extremely resistant to being killed.

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:
when daemons and Chaos forces "corrupt" you they mutate your body until you are unrecognizable and if they are strong enough they actually kill your personality and claim your soul

This is your best effort but the term "soul" needs some definition. And by "personality" do you mean, as I said, basically self-control?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:
Exactly ,Primarch had no idea about Chaos while GK are constantly to fight it.

But if they are so pure why must they fight so hard to avoid corruption? Or is there purity actually just the fact that they fight so hard in the face of their rather unremarkable vulnerability? In that case, GK are only less susceptible to Chaos inasmuch as they spend all their time fighting its influence on them. Of course, by that standard no Black Templar should ever have fallen to Chaos, either.

"Even the purest flame can be extinguished by the tide, in that single moment of doubt the wanderer was lost. He knelt, bowing his head at last.".

This quote pretty much confirms it for me, beyond the other flavor text

He faced a god and lost, Grey knight or not he was corrupted and bowed to Slannesh

It's time for people to just get over their fanboy butthurt, this is 40k, not powerrangers the good guy doesn't win at the end of the episode, the grimdark has no use for your My dude is undefetable mentality, if you can't swallow that fact there is plenty of other childhood games that will suit you better.

I for one am personally glad this occurred, this characters fluff was outta control, all this character has done is cause rage over, his poorly written fluff

 Arthas367 wrote:
"Even the purest flame can be extinguished by the tide, in that single moment of doubt the wanderer was lost. He knelt, bowing his head at last.".

This quote pretty much confirms it for me, beyond the other flavor text

He faced a god and lost, Grey knight or not he was corrupted and bowed to Slannesh

It's time for people to just get over their fanboy butthurt, this is 40k, not powerrangers the good guy doesn't win at the end of the episode, the grimdark has no use for your My dude is undefetable mentality, if you can't swallow that fact there is plenty of other childhood games that will suit you better.

I for one am personally glad this occurred, this characters fluff was outta control, all this character has done is cause rage over, his poorly written fluff

It would actually make his story a lot more interesting if true. He'd make an intriguing special character in the next Daemon codex...

Or replace Abaddon as the big cheese of Chaos Space Marines.

To me, the fact that we don't know whether it is true or false -- the fact that we don't even know if it's Draigo -- is what really makes this interesting. For example, that's what makes this thread possible.

Although, it would be novel if, like Amaya noted, you had Draigo leading the 14th Black Crusade. Novel, certianly ... but novelty is ephemeral.

In before Draigo leads 14th Black Crusade and wreaks havoc upon the Imperium only to have a change of heart and redeem himself by decimating Chaos forces in a suicidal attack.

Perhaps no grey knights had previously fallen because none came face to face with the lord of temptation, in person? Draigo stands before a literal chaos deity, in its own realm. What do you expect to happen. He can either die or be corrupted, and Slaanesh leans heavily towards corruption rather than violence.

 Amaya wrote:
only to have a change of heart and redeem himself by decimating Chaos forces in a suicidal attack.

Leading Craftworld Ulthwe as the most powerful Farseer of all time and the successor of Eldrad Ulthuan ... possibly after carving Eldrad's name on Mephiston's heart.

I was wondering how long it would be before this thread started.

As much as I hate Draigo and wish he would get lobotomized into the Daemonic equivalent of a Servitor, whoever this "knight" is, he cannot be Draigo, because Draigo's sword does not have runes etched into it (and nor does he have a sheath).

It could potentially be some other Grey Knight, but I'm doubtful, given that Grey Knights are explicitly immune to corruption and temptation (and yes, their codex does actually say that; see pages 5 and 7). Moreover, what are the odds of there being two Grey Knights wandering the warp?

On the other hand, it is worth noting that GW has gotten details and such wrong before. It is possible that Phil Kelly meant for it to be Draigo and simply described him incorrectly. However, with the Grey Knights codex asserting that they are immune to corruption and no definitive statements in the Chaos Daemons codex to the contrary (explicit statements trump implicit ones, after all), I find the idea that it was a Grey Knight that fell (Draigo or not) to be dubious at this time.

But we'll see. Hopefully future fluff will expand on this somewhat and give us a more concrete answer.

It'd be awesome to see Abaddon defeated at the end of the 13th Black Crusade (and I say that as an Abaddon fan) as long as he got a proper sendoff, then have Draigo take his place as Warmaster of Chaos. However that would require advancing things that GW just isn't going to do.

Just like the Golden Throne failing, the "warrior in baroque armor" that Trazhin has, just like the Wolf Time/End Time, just like the return of the Daemon Primarchs, just like a million other 40k mysteries and revelations, none of this will ever get answered by GW unfortunately. The only hope for these things lies in BL, and GW won't want them messing with an established gameplay piece like Draigo so drastically as making him a champion of Chaos.

It's quite simple really:

Draigo's a big fan of warp dust, and who else do you go to for the best narcotics in both reality and unreality but Slaanesh?

I mean, really, why else would he be going there in the first place?

Like so much else with 40k, it won't be answered for a very long time, if at all, so take whatever conclusion you like from it. I'd like to point out, in Draigo's fluff, he spends an awful lot of time wrecking Khorne, you know, the Chaos God diametrically opposed to Slaanesh.

 Manchu wrote:
I wouldn't be surprised if the entire Imperium was basically just the Emperor's "security system" against the Chaos Gods and he has no other motive than self-preservation.

I think that's the most grimdark I've seen condensed into one sentence.

 Psienesis wrote:
The real question is...

Was it a Longsword, an Eviscerator, or just a Powerblade?

I think it might be the Pork one

 Brother Captain Alexander wrote:
Exactly ,Primarch had no idea about Chaos while GK are constantly to fight it.

Really? They might not be aware of the Chaos Gods, but they know the affects of the Warp and that there are denizens that dwell within it. The Alpha Legion inLegion know about Chaos and even call it for what it is. They don't understand the full ramifications of it but they are fully aware of the threat that it presents.

 Harriticus wrote:

Just like the Golden Throne failing, the "warrior in baroque armor" that Trazhin has, just like the Wolf Time/End Time, just like the return of the Daemon Primarchs, just like a million other 40k mysteries and revelations, none of this will ever get answered by GW unfortunately. The only hope for these things lies in BL, and GW won't want them messing with an established gameplay piece like Draigo so drastically as making him a champion of Chaos.

That these things are left as mysteries is a good thing.

Obviously it was left ambiguous for that reason. But I really feel that Kelly put it in as a tongue-in-cheek joke to the knowledgeable fanbase. An 11-12 year old kid may not make the connection (at least, not right away), but surely everyone who's played against Draigo or rolled their eyes to his several pages of fluff will immediately think about him kneeling before Slaanesh's meatsword and grin. C'mon, it's pretty funny. lol.