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 Platuan4th wrote:


Man, I'd be a bit peeved if Brets got Warrior Nuns and Empire still doesn't have the Sisters of Sigmar as a unit.

But can't the sisters of sigmar just be greatswords? That seems like a very easy fix to me -- and led by a warrior-priestess.

I think it would be fun (and fluffy) if they fought with "spears" that are actually the lances that their husbands left behind when they went off to quest.

Given that they got a Trebuchet last time around, I don't think a Ballista of some description is too much of a leap.



The real bind is monstrous cavalry. But as others have noted they're kind of there already with Pegasus Knights and Hippogryphs.

Just so long as they dont start rocking Knights Templar and Knights Hospitalier or some other nonsense...

I just wanted to say that anyone who thinks Bretonnia is not based 99% on France needs to look at a map of Bretonnia, then a map of France. The only connections to England (besides the name, I guess) are the grail references and the fact that the king is basically Richard the Lionheart. And that's not saying a lot, considering Richard was a french-speaking frenchman and the modern Arthurian legend comes from Le Mort d'Arthur, not from british mythology. I suppose you could call longbowmen an England reference. But really, Bretonnia is probably the straightest rip from history in Warhammer Fantasy.

the color purple wrote:
I just wanted to say that anyone who thinks Bretonnia is not based 99% on France needs to look at a map of Bretonnia, then a map of France. The only connections to England (besides the name, I guess) are the grail references and the fact that the king is basically Richard the Lionheart. And that's not saying a lot, considering Richard was a french-speaking frenchman and the modern Arthurian legend comes from Le Mort d'Arthur, not from british mythology. I suppose you could call longbowmen an England reference. But really, Bretonnia is probably the straightest rip from history in Warhammer Fantasy.

It seems to be a mix of both that people try to categorize as one or the other.

I would add the following to the already existing rules

+ Bring Magic Items in line with 8th (skimming most of them out)

+ Keep Virtues

+ Add a Siege Knights: A unit of Heavily armored Knights on foot they would be modeled to resemble Knights in very oversized armor that would produce a 4+ like Full Plate however due to Bretonnia not having the full knowledge of Full Plate it would give them Move 3" However I would give them the same stats as Knights of The Realm and the ability to reroll hits when within a building. Options for Sword and Shield, or Halberd and Shield.

+ Trebuchet variant with fire (already rumored)

+ Possible Knight wide special rule that raises their WS against enemy models with a higher base strength than them.

+ Questing Knights deserve some sort of boost possibly a sort of On The Quest Special Rule giving them the ability to ignore hit modifiers like the mark of nurgle or Glittering Scales, also drop them in points by 2 and I think they would then be used.

+ All peasant units stay the same except for the Grail Reliqaue which should drop to 110 points for the base stuff and give all peasant units within 6" +1 to Leadership Tests.

+ Knights Errant drop to 18 points

+ Knights of the Realm stay the same

+ Grail Knights gain +2 to their WS and gain Heroic Killing Blow.

+ New Battering Ram Unit: A moving Warmachine that works as a Bolt Thrower in Close Combat.

+ No Monsters just keep us with the ones we have.

That is what I would want.

What about giving all Knights Hatred: Monstrous Infantry, Monstrous Cavalry, Monstrous Beasts, and Monsters?

And HKB on Grail Knights: No, just no. They would have to be at least 60 pts each to get that.

lol maybe HKB is a bit far but I think making them the bane of all monsters a good idea, or giving them some sort of better defensive buff making them harder to kill.

A 6+ ward naturally, +1 if they pray, and another +1 if fighting anything with Monster or Monstrous in its unit type.

Pretty much agree with them getting some form of Heavy Infantry. I would just love to see GW come out with some human knights on foot with different weapon options. I still have some old Retainers and Knights on Foot with Halberds somewhere that might not mind seeing the light of day.

Also like the idea of bringing in a unit like Brigands or resurrecting old units like Squires, Retainers, etc.

Since armies seem to be getting new Hero/Lord options, maybe they will bring in someone like a Warden, a Huntsman, maybe a Hero Grail Knight.

I also agree with letting the Bretonnian characters and the top knights being a little better then regular humans to help differentiate more from the rest of the humans.

I actually like the idea of Bretonnians. The ability to run a full mounted army is nice and provides them with a unique feel. It seems that what Bretonnia needs is mostly point changes and some stat line rework.

I wouldn't mind seeing some sort of peasant horde option. cheap, low to no armor humans that can be horded out.

Also more mounted options. Unicorns, Hippogryphs, light cavalry, heavy cavalry, maybe even a dragon option.

Foot knights also sound like a nice idea. Something really tough but isn't terribly fast to represent trying to move in heavy armor. Like Movement 3 but a 2+ armor save standard.

I like the idea of a unit of huntsmen, with their war-hounds. I totally think that could fit

 AegisGrimm wrote:
I like the idea of a unit of huntsmen, with their war-hounds. I totally think that could fit

Kinda a good call - say like 5 hunting dogs with a mounted character leader or something?

 Micky wrote:

 AegisGrimm wrote:
I like the idea of a unit of huntsmen, with their war-hounds. I totally think that could fit

Kinda a good call - say like 5 hunting dogs with a mounted character leader or something?

Only if the hunting dogs are foxhounds and/or beagles.

Such an interesting topic.

From an 8th edition standpoint, they need a more elite infantry unit. A unit of knights on foot wearing full plate would be cool and fun to model. A musician with a pair of coconuts comes to mind.

Points need to be tweaked to allow more knights to get onto the table.

Reworking the lance formation also needs to be done. Now that two full ranks get to attack, it is much less effective using such a small frontage, and also cumbersome.

I would like to see a unique lore for the army, "Lore of the Lake" or something along those lines that largely protects the army or makes them more resilient, especially to ranged attacks.

Overall, just a few tweaks here and there will help the Bretts go a long way.

 timofeo wrote:
I would add the following to the already existing rules

+ Bring Magic Items in line with 8th (skimming most of them out)

+ Keep Virtues

+ Add a Siege Knights: A unit of Heavily armored Knights on foot they would be modeled to resemble Knights in very oversized armor that would produce a 4+ like Full Plate however due to Bretonnia not having the full knowledge of Full Plate it would give them Move 3" However I would give them the same stats as Knights of The Realm and the ability to reroll hits when within a building. Options for Sword and Shield, or Halberd and Shield.

+ Trebuchet variant with fire (already rumored)

+ Possible Knight wide special rule that raises their WS against enemy models with a higher base strength than them.

+ Questing Knights deserve some sort of boost possibly a sort of On The Quest Special Rule giving them the ability to ignore hit modifiers like the mark of nurgle or Glittering Scales, also drop them in points by 2 and I think they would then be used.

+ All peasant units stay the same except for the Grail Reliqaue which should drop to 110 points for the base stuff and give all peasant units within 6" +1 to Leadership Tests.

+ Knights Errant drop to 18 points

+ Knights of the Realm stay the same

+ Grail Knights gain +2 to their WS and gain Heroic Killing Blow.

+ New Battering Ram Unit: A moving Warmachine that works as a Bolt Thrower in Close Combat.

+ No Monsters just keep us with the ones we have.
That is what I would want.

Its an interesting idea and I can see some of these possibly making the final cut, however if the new army books have shown me anything, it is that for the most part, every army has become a lot more balanced, but at the same time keeping there identity to what kind of race they are in the Warhammer World. As for the Bretonnians themselves, this is how I see they should tweak the Bretonnia army:

*Lords and Paladins remain the same points and stats, however if they are not riding a Pegasus or a Hippogryph, they automatically ride a Barded Bretonnian Steed for free.

* Fix the Magic Items to go along with 8th edition, and keep the Virtues, possibly removing some of the older, useless ones or adding some new virtues.

* New Bretonnia Magic for the army, such as the Lore of the Lady or something similar.

* For our Core Troops, Knights Errant go down in points, with Knights of the Realm staying the same. Could probably see Knights of the Realm going either up or down in points in the new book, but then again since Bretonnia is really the only one, true Cavalry-Heavy army in the game, I could see them making changes which could allow them to run more knights on the table. And this is unlikely, however the other Bretonnia player at my store thinks Knights of the Realm should be S4 base, as he argues that Knights are far better trained and stronger then most standard troops of other armies.

*Men-at-Arms, if they are still WS2 in the new book, should go down a point or two as they aren't worth 5 points a model with that, but would be fine if they where to become WS3. Also, I could see them being able to take HW and shields, as according to the rumors, they might just change the Grail Reliqaue to a peasant standard bearer of sorts or make the Grail Reliquea to something related to the Screaming Bell/Plague Furnace kit that gives a boost to the entire Bretonnia army.

*Archers are fine the way they are, no need for a point or rule change, and still have access to flaming arrows.

*Pegasus Knights remain the same, with only the possible change I can see coming from either some point changes or maybe some rules changes, such as removing the 0-1 rule they currently have. Also, since these guys are our Monstrous Cavalry unit, I doubt Bretonnia would get a 2nd one.

*Questing Knights get a Plastic Kit, and I think they should get some special rules like the Maneaters do in the Ogre Kingdoms book. This I feel fits with the Questing Knights fluff, as since they are traveling around all of the time, they are able to hone there skills to the max, as well as acquire some unique ones during there travels in search of the grail. Also think they should get a rule where they strike at Initiative Order with there GW's, which isnt overpowered as there is a lot of stuff in the game that would go first before they would even attack most of the time, with only Dwarfs, Ogres, and some Lizardmen units really being affected from this.

*Grail Knights drop to 35 points per model, and since they are literally living Saints and from reading the Bretonnia book, either increase there toughness, give them a 5+ ward save all of the time or make them harder to hit in CC. Might seem a bit over the top, however Grail Knights are supposed to be the greatest Knights in the Old World, however they are still very similar to a standard Knight of the Realm. Not sure what else they could do for these guys but I expect a change to make them live up to there elite status.

*Trebuchet remains the same, with them being allowed to shoot flaming ammunition (per rumors), and adding a new War-Machine to the Bretonnia arsenal, such as a Batista or maybe that War-Machine from the Messenger that shoots hundreds of Arrows all at once (think its called a Porcupine of something).

*New units for the Bretonnia army, could see something along the line of Knights on Foot, as well as maybe a unit of Ethereal Knights, as that to would fit into the Bretonnia Lore.

*Along with this, I expect the usual changes in terms of being able to have more Special Character Choices, as well as upgrades to the current Bretonnia Special characters, [particularly the King, as at the moment he is probably one of the worse characters in the game in terms of point cost and rules.

*Also, I could see changes to the lance, as though it is nice to be able to get multiple lances into a horde unit on the charge, what hurts it is the lack of staying power we have in it in terms of ranks, so I wouldnt be surprised if some changes where made. According to rumors, they might make Bretonnia Knights have the Monstrous Cavalry rule, which would be interesting.

 timofeo wrote:


+ Grail Knights gain +2 to their WS and gain Heroic Killing Blow.

No....just no. WS 7 heroic killing blow would make them better than allot of hero choices (Like, you know, a bretonnian paladin) . Grail knights are in need of a mild buff to bring them in line with the fluff/ other armies elite super bad-ass dudes, but that's a lil much.

For me;

-Make men at arms either cheaper or WS3.

-Some kind of buff alter (Re-tool the grail relique?)

Remove compulsory BSB. I would take one anyway but I resent being forced.

- Include horses in paladin/lord costs. It's a nitpic, and I know why they are not included (Virtue of empathy) but I just get annoyed when writing lists and having to ignore the dissapointment I get after the 2 seconds I think my characters are cheaper than they are

Also, make the inevitable (and necessary) trebuchet nerf gentle......like, use lube or something.

T4 for the Grail Knights would do nicely.

In spite of some of my earlier posts, I think Bretonnia really only needs some tweaking and not a huge overhaul. A slight decrease in the point cost of Knights, WS 3 on Men-At-Arms, an infantry Knight unit, maybe a MC unit (I favor female knights on Unicorns myself, just don't put breasts on their breastplates, that's a HORRIBLE energy trap)...

And a Errata that takes Steadfast away from disrupted units so a flanking charge MEANS something.

 Vulcan wrote:
.. female knights on Unicorns..

That could be AMAZING if done right.

Naiads sounds good.

Female knights?

Hell no, call me sexist or whatever but Bretonnia is like the knight in shining armour saves the damsel in distress army.

MarsNZ wrote:
Female knights?

Hell no, call me sexist or whatever but Bretonnia is like the knight in shining armour saves the damsel in distress army.

Yes but I think it is fairly well established that the damsels and enchantresses that work for the Lady of the Lake are above that. They don't need men offering them a hand to mount their horses and they *gasp* ride with one leg on either side of the horse and let men see their ankles if they need to go fast. Female knights could be an extension of that. An oddity, but one that is accepted because the Lady of the Lake said so.

Agree to disagree then, Prophetess' are tough, sure, doesn't qualify them for knighthood. I'd also cringe to see 'because the Lady said so' as a reason for their introduction.

 jonolikespie wrote:

MarsNZ wrote:
Female knights?

Hell no, call me sexist or whatever but Bretonnia is like the knight in shining armour saves the damsel in distress army.

Yes but I think it is fairly well established that the damsels and enchantresses that work for the Lady of the Lake are above that. They don't need men offering them a hand to mount their horses and they *gasp* ride with one leg on either side of the horse and let men see their ankles if they need to go fast. Female knights could be an extension of that. An oddity, but one that is accepted because the Lady of the Lake said so.

Except that the Damsels and Enchantress come from the lady to begin with. They were stolen children taught the ways of magic to begin with, to push them away would be blasphemy.

There's nothing to be said, unless she kicks up her child stealing and starts raising magical female knights, this won't happen, and probably shouldn't happen.

I wouldn't mind a unit of priestess novitiates though, or maybe making a priestess a unit upgrade. Also I think they should make the red duke a playable character, give something dark to the wee brets

Tiarna Fuilteach wrote:
I wouldn't mind a unit of priestess novitiates though, or maybe making a priestess a unit upgrade. Also I think they should make the red duke a playable character, give something dark to the wee brets

You mean give the Brettonia Vampire Counts? I'm not sure it'd work..but damn do I want something besides the Von Carsteins for once.

Anything to bring back characters from different bloodlines

I love my knights and scruby peasant mob that causes terror(insert evil laugh),,,, but one thing I would love to see changed is to allow the magical flying Pegasus to take magical banners.....seriously I do not understand why they can't.

 jonolikespie wrote:

MarsNZ wrote:
Female knights?

Hell no, call me sexist or whatever but Bretonnia is like the knight in shining armour saves the damsel in distress army.

Yes but I think it is fairly well established that the damsels and enchantresses that work for the Lady of the Lake are above that. They don't need men offering them a hand to mount their horses and they *gasp* ride with one leg on either side of the horse and let men see their ankles if they need to go fast. Female knights could be an extension of that. An oddity, but one that is accepted because the Lady of the Lake said so.

Damsels and Prophetesses are the women WITH MAGICAL TALENT in Bretonnia. Not 'all women of noble birth.' I can see preccocious noble's daughters wanting to follow in Repanse de Lyoness' footsteps and become knights themselves, meeting resistance from the reactionaries, and striking a bargan - if they can tame a unicorn to be their steed, they will be knighted...

They need some knights that say "ni" and a killer rabit monstrous beast.