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 Praxiss wrote:
if Av11 is so laughable then why are the necron flyers considered so overpowered (i'm not saying they're not btw -they are stupidly good) - they're no more survivable than these Tau ones.

Because they're cheaper, they break all of the normal rules for transport flyers, and they're dedicated transports.

 Praxiss wrote:
If the flier have a networked markerlight doesn't that make them a lot better?
Fire that off at an enemy flyer and all of a sudden your Hammerhead is hitting at BS2/3/whatever.
So the Tau flyer has AV11 and just a S7 gun? And this is terrible? on top of this it has a bomb and a markerlight to boost BS/ignore cover (could the markerlight negate "evade" saves?).
if Av11 is so laughable then why are the necron flyers considered so overpowered (i'm not saying they're not btw -they are stupidly good) - they're no more survivable than these Tau ones.

Only the Sunshark has markerlight. One markerlight, so it can't completely remove cover from evade.
The sunshark is by far the better of the two Tau fliers for reasons listed before - for 10pts more it it more survivable, does more damage and also provides a markerlight.
It's still a 160pts (180pts with disruption pod or decoy launchers) AV11/10/10 flier: for that amount of points one could field 4 Piranhas, an Ionhead with Longstrike, or a Riptide, all of which will probably survive much longer and do more damage.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Praxiss wrote:
if Av11 is so laughable then why are the necron flyers considered so overpowered (i'm not saying they're not btw -they are stupidly good) - they're no more survivable than these Tau ones.

Because they're cheaper, they break all of the normal rules for transport flyers, and they're dedicated transports.

And the doom scythe?

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
And the doom scythe?

Not considered as overpowered as the Night Scythe, but still better than the Tau flyers because it has the parking-lot-destroying auto-hit line of death.

Doesn't the Networked markerlight fire off multiple shots? i thought thats what the tetras have and they shoot 3 or 4 shots dont they?

---not a Tau player so i'm just going off what I've read or been told by friends - apologies now for any inaccuracies.



my point about the Scythes was that they too are AV11 and you dont see people complaingin that they are too easy to kill. Survival-wise they are the same as the tau flyers, no?

 Praxiss wrote:
Doesn't the Networked markerlight fire off multiple shots? i thought thats what the tetras have and they shoot 3 or 4 shots dont they?

Tetras have a special Heavy 4 networked markerlight. Normal networked markerlights are heavy 1 like normal, but the shooter's unit can benefit from the hits (unlike normal markerlights, where you fire the light and another unit makes use of it).

my point about the Scythes was that they too are AV11 and you dont see people complaingin that they are too easy to kill. Survival-wise they are the same as the tau flyers, no?

In terms of killing an individual flyer, no.
In game terms, target saturation makes a big difference. If crons can advance at you with 5 identical flyers they are much much more difficult to prevent as a tactic; facing against Tau with a single flyer (given that you need 2 markerlight squads from FA) there is only one target for all your skyfire weapons to focus on.

They look very pretty. But I have to say, they do seem a bit lackluster for their point's, especially when there is so very much good stuff to put your points in this book.

@Trasvi. gotcha - makes sense now.

To be honest i never thought of Tau as a flyer army anyway. They struck me as a high-tech gun line army. if a flyer zooms by over head they turn to the nearest railgun totting unit and say "kilL" - then braodside whirs and pivots, primes its gun and swats the flyer out of the air.

Air superiority by way of better tech. Uou dont need your own flyers if you can make your opponent afraid to use their own.

I really like the model (yes, really!) and I'd like to get one, but it is really hard to justify. If FA was not so crowded it wouldn't be so bad, I can afford to pay for one overpriced unit just for the looks. But problem is that taking the flyer prevents me taking other cool (and more useful) stuff that's in the FA.

There really should have been an option to move some of the FA and Elite stuff into Troops. Darkstrider could've made Pathfinders troops for example.

I have to wait for both GW studio and FW FAQs until I decide what to do. Whether they fix the Interceptor Drones on the Sun Shark, and whether Barracuda gets access to codex vehicle upgrades.

 Praxiss wrote:
@Trasvi. gotcha - makes sense now.

To be honest i never thought of Tau as a flyer army anyway. They struck me as a high-tech gun line army. if a flyer zooms by over head they turn to the nearest railgun totting unit and say "kilL" - then braodside whirs and pivots, primes its gun and swats the flyer out of the air.

Air superiority by way of better tech. Uou dont need your own flyers if you can make your opponent afraid to use their own.

I see it as the opposite. The Tau are the closest to using actual military tactics... what with using superior range and technology, and giving a damn about the lives of their troops. I would see them as using air units as much as possible (not to mention orbital support), just because zooming overhead and strafing the enemy with accurate fire is a lot more efficient than a ground army.

Came across this thread, while looking for other peoples' opinions on the Tau fliers - as I'm going to try them out in an upcoming game.

The Interceptor Drones that the Sunshark comes with seem decent... and here's why.

They are counted as passengers, using their location on the bomber as a fire point... although they have to shoot at the same target that the bomber does.
Where they're located on the model, they have almost 360 degrees for a field-of-view. The missile pod, however, REALLY needs some clarification, as it's physically on a swivel/turret mounting - but the RAW doesn't say "turret".

Best case scenario, the missile pod and drones have almost 360 deg. FOV... so they can plink almost anything around them.

Worst case (barring being blasted from the sky by Grots), is that the NW Markerlight, Missile Pod and drones all shoot at something in front of the bomber... and the drones, can fire the Overcharged (Heavy 1/Blast) Ion Cannons at normal BS, because they're Jet Pack Infantry, which means they have Relentless - no matter how far/fast they move (and they're passengers on the bomber) they count as having been stationary in the movement phase. So... you can potentially drop the bombing Run template on something, and then drop two more S8 AP4 Small-Blast template on the same unit, if the bomber doesn't (or also) shoots at said unit.

Sorry for the 2 month old necro post... just wanted to bring up the stuff I read.
[EDIT - edited for clarity and spelling]

As long as this is up at the top again I'd just like to mention that the Forgeworld book is out now and our Barracuda is looking pretty nice. Not Vendetta or Helldrake good, but a heck of a lot better than the other fliers we have.

Remoras are actually reasonable now as well apparently (but I'm buying a baracuda just for the model anyway, so it's nice I'll get to field it on occasion).

 Akula wrote:
which means they have Relentless - no matter how far/fast they move (and they're passengers on the bomber) they count as having been stationary in the movement phase.

This is wrong. They count as stationary, but the rule limiting them to snap shots is based on the vehicle's movement. It doesn't say the passengers count as moving, it says that if you move at cruising speed (and flyers always move at cruising speed) your passengers can only snap fire. Whether or not you have relentless is irrelevant.

Hey i appreciate people getting back on this trhead. It is of interest to me because I have invested recently into some planes and really like the possibilities. I understand that flyers are not going to be OVERWHELMING contributors, but if they can do as much as a good sized assault squad then I will consider them a success, since they are roughly the same points. I think expectations are set unrealistically for so many units that its hard to ferret out the posters who have exorbitant expectations from the ones who have realistic ones.

Well I'd stay away from the bomber unless you really really like interceptor drones. That "pulse bomb" seriously underwhelmed my expectations. You're basically getting firepower equivalent to a squad of fire warriors every turn (assuming you can drop a bomb every turn and don't roll a 1).

The codex fighter looks pretty fun to me believe it or not. That quad ion might be good for collecting a few tears, although it is outclassed by the Barracuda in every way except for durability (and really it's a flier that isn't a helldrake, vendetta, or storm raven. They'll all fall out of the sky in flames if someone squints at them funny anyway.).

If they CAN fire at it. thats the thing. Armies with planes need supporting fire to kill the Aegis and such. I feel that is just a given in any plane list. They really do seem to be very hard to crash when the enemy has no Skyfire and that requires the rest of the army to b built around that reality I think.

I am trying this for the first time with Eldar, now that they have AV 10 planes. i took three of them and supported them with Warwalkers that can kill the anti-air. We will see if THAT works, but on the Tau side I think a similar strategy could be cool.

Doesn't the Barracudda just render the codex fliers mostly irrelevant due to how much better it is?

Well it'd have to have like a full fledged Hammerhead Ion Cannon, be more survivable, and be significantly cheaper by like 40 points to do that. Oh... Wait...

Haha, yeah, the Barracuda is better in pretty much every way.

I've proxied the tau flier in a couple games so far and it's been a lot of fun (admittedly my opponent's didn't have much in the way of skyfire). But still, the ability to aim wherever it pleases (except directly in front) is quite nice. And like all tau things, it really shines when given markerlight support.