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They actually did have the Romulans in one. I think in the last season they were supposed to introduce a Rumulan threat/conspiracy to Vulcan. Supposedly Earth, Andoria, and Vulcan form an alliance which becomes the basis for the Federation.

But yea agreed. A lot of promise but it went meh very fast. Could have combined some of that early stuff with a much more difficult exploration. What I mean is, ST seemed to make exploration easy. Make it hard and dangerous in those first years, with lots of mechanicals going wrong, lots of people with better tech and just dangerous and more human. Not ST light.

From wiki:

Plans for Season 5At the time of its cancellation, planning for a proposed fifth season of Enterprise was underway. Most details of this never-made season come from comments made by producer Manny Coto who in 2009 stated that two arcs of this season might have been to show the 'origins of the Federation' and 'whispers of the Romulan war', and consequently, the Romulans would have been the major villains of the season.[15]

Coto also stated that had the series been given a fifth season, the recurring Andorian character of Shran might have joined the Enterprise in an advisory role.

Other possible plans for the season included: an episode showing the construction of the first starbase; a Borg Queen origins story with Alice Krige as a Starfleet medical technician who makes contact with the Borg from Season 2's "Regeneration" and becomes the Borg Queen, and a Mirror Universe arc spanning four or five episodes.

There were also hopes for an episode in which T'Pol would finally meet her father and discover that he was in fact a Romulan agent who had posed as a Vulcan officer prior to faking his own death. The revelation that T'Pol was half-Romulan would have shed light on her affinity for humanity and as well as her interest in experimenting with emotions.

 Frazzled wrote:
I think in the last season they were supposed to introduce a Rumulan threat/conspiracy to Vulcan. Supposedly Earth, Andoria, and Vulcan form an alliance which becomes the basis for the Federation.

SEE! That would have been fething great. Intrigue, races trying to figure out how to work together, and so on.

Instead, we got aliens that live in aquariums in space... (the one in the back ground) I checked out of the series shortly after this episode.

What would have been far better was the proposal that got shot down in favor of Enterprise.

The proposal was a much darker series, based on Section 31 and a special ops team of that shadowy department.

It was scuppered as 'not family friendly' enough for the show. A great shame. Instead of which we got the lame duck that was Enterprise, whos only saving graces were the alien doctor (not given nearly enough airtime) and the phenomenal T'pol, who was so entirely much hotter than 7o9.

 Frazzled wrote:
They actually did have the Romulans in one. I think in the last season they were supposed to introduce a Rumulan threat/conspiracy to Vulcan. Supposedly Earth, Andoria, and Vulcan form an alliance which becomes the basis for the Federation.

They did do that in the last season. The Romulans were trying to start a war between the Tellerites, Andorians, and Vulcans. The Enterprise crew uncovered it, and it led to the alliance that led to the formation of the Federation.

I tried to watch and enjoy Enterprise. Friends, family, and coworkers told me it got somewhat better by the third season...I call them liars now. Although I did skip ahead and enjoy the Mirror Universe and borg episodes, they were the only thing I liked.

My thought:

I saw the Mirror Enterprise episodes, they were okay. But most of the series I never saw, it was just so dull. I didn't finish series 1.

I hope Section 31 doesn't exist actually. Wasn't formed partly because of Kirk's travails in time hopping, which haven't happened yet in this alternate universe. Now, I suppose a nascent form of it might be in the works due to the time traveling from the 09 film, but it shouldn't be that well informed at this point in the game if that were true, as they don't have a lot of time travel information to deal with.

I don't believe the other ship is from the future either, just that when i first saw it I thought of the Enterprise E. I imagine it is a dreadnought of some sort, and certainly not expected to be in the hands of one man. I'm pretty sure the villain is genetically enhanced, and while Khan may not be in it I think there will be, if nothing, a reference to him. This may be a way to set up a new confrontation down the line.

I didn't mind the first few episodes of Enterprise. The sense of wonder, the uncertainty, the constant screw ups was something I really liked. I wish they hadn't immediately gone off to the "gigantic threat to Earth" meme that really seemed to obsess the ST producers the last few years of the various shows. DS9 had the Dominion war (which was awesome), Voyager of course had the Borg (okay, but still) and most of the movies and Enterprise had direct "we wanna kill Earth" story arcs. First Contact, Nemesis, Enterprise, and even the new ST movie all directly concern major threats to Earth. Get back to exploring!

Of the Treks, DS9 remains my favorite, great character development, strong plot overall and good acting.

TOS uber alles. No one can take the Shat!

NOTE: I did like DS9 above all other non TOS shows though. After you watch DS9, going back and watching a TNG episode is like a high school rendition of Mary Poppins, played a bunch of B string actors with corn cobs shoved up their well you get the idea. Seriously, it has the devilish combination of being stuffy, preachy, and boring in one exquisite enchilada of bland.

Kind of reminds me of Enterprise actually.

I'll second DS9 as the best.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
Of the Treks, DS9 remains my favorite, great character development, strong plot overall and good acting.

Agreed, I thought DS9 was really good; I loved it for the cloak&dagger/political intrigue and space exploration. I really liked the Dominion War and felt they didn't give it a fare shake beyond DS9 before bringing it to an end.

the ST ToS did have large war ships, the Connie Class (or the Enterprise 01 and the A were of this class) was rated as a cruiser/heavy cruiser after the refit, the Excelsior class was rated as a heavy battle cruiser, the pic below is the dreadnought type called the Ulysses class;

The thing had the turning circle of a small moon took, an age to get up to speed, but by the grate maker it could give as good as got.

 Ribon Fox wrote:
the ST ToS did have large war ships, the Connie Class (or the Enterprise 01 and the A were of this class) was rated as a cruiser/heavy cruiser after the refit, the Excelsior class was rated as a heavy battle cruiser, the pic below is the dreadnought type called the Ulysses class;

The thing had the turning circle of a small moon took, an age to get up to speed, but by the grate maker it could give as good as got.

The Connie class cruiser. Yep Genghis Connie would approve.

STIII even called Enterprise a battlecruiser in the movie.
Excelsior was a battleship, lets just call it what it was baby!

Don't make me dig out my big book of trek or the starfleet command 2 game
The Excelsior is a battle cruser :p Damn fine ship to
When i get a chance to i'll find the fed battle ship.

Wasn't the Defiant supposed to have been the first federation ship built for war?

The first dedicated war ship yes. All other fed ships were also sicence and exploration ships that just happed to have good offence capabilatys.

 AduroT wrote:
Wasn't the Defiant supposed to have been the first federation ship built for war?

Yeah, the federation is meant to be a peaceful entity as a whole, so they don't have any "warship" just heavily armed exploration craft.

The dominion war changed that with alot of fleets abandoning the bring-your-family policy and ships like the Defiant class apearing that were true warships.

 FM Ninja 048 wrote:

 AduroT wrote:
Wasn't the Defiant supposed to have been the first federation ship built for war?

Yeah, the federation is meant to be a peaceful entity as a whole, so they don't have any "warship" just heavily armed exploration craft.

The dominion war changed that with alot of fleets abandoning the bring-your-family policy and ships like the Defiant class apearing that were true warships.

Yes. Its almost like Cold War propaganda. That ship isn't a surviellance bird, its just a fishing trawler...yea...a trawler...
Enterprise as an exploration ship that can go toe to toe with a D7. Sounds more like the old sailing navies. A heavy frigate like the Constitution doing exploration, but at its heart its a warship, and a bad boy at that.

Thats part of what bugged me about TNG. You wouldn't bring your family with you if part of your duties meant patrolling against enemy empires. It was all part of the PC, elitist vibe on the show.

If I remember correctly, along with the Defiant class they developed at least two other classes of real warship, one that did the transformers thing, and a sort of light cruiser. Its also my understanding the E's class is effectively a warship based on the cruiser's advances.

 FM Ninja 048 wrote:

 AduroT wrote:
Wasn't the Defiant supposed to have been the first federation ship built for war?

Yeah, the federation is meant to be a peaceful entity as a whole, so they don't have any "warship" just heavily armed exploration craft.

The dominion war changed that with alot of fleets abandoning the bring-your-family policy and ships like the Defiant class apearing that were true warships.

According to the fluff, the dedicated warship idea was put into motion following the Borg invasion, iirc, with Defiant being an overpowered prototype.

 RossDas wrote:

 FM Ninja 048 wrote:

 AduroT wrote:
Wasn't the Defiant supposed to have been the first federation ship built for war?

Yeah, the federation is meant to be a peaceful entity as a whole, so they don't have any "warship" just heavily armed exploration craft.

The dominion war changed that with alot of fleets abandoning the bring-your-family policy and ships like the Defiant class apearing that were true warships.

According to the fluff, the dedicated warship idea was put into motion following the Borg invasion, iirc, with Defiant being an overpowered prototype.

Yeah, they built the Defiant because of the Borg threat, but when that didn't materialize, it kinda got shelved. Then when the Dominion War started, they went full scale production on the things.

Akira Class are dedicated warships of the Federation.

The 'transformer' ship you're remembering was the Prometheus class I think.

 Frazzled wrote:

If I remember correctly, along with the Defiant class they developed at least two other classes of real warship, one that did the transformers thing, and a sort of light cruiser. Its also my understanding the E's class is effectively a warship based on the cruiser's advances.

Yes, the Prometheus class used Multi Vector Assault Mode and I think The Akira Class was the other one

@RossDas

Yeah, I watched DS9 recently, The defiant class was developed in reponce to the borg, but was shelved and the Deifiant (the prototype) was put into storage, to be brought back out for the dominion threat after some modifacations.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
Akira Class are dedicated warships of the Federation.

The 'transformer' ship you're remembering was the Prometheus class I think.

Yes indeedy. We are geeking out this morning!

In TOS Starfleet is most certainly a military organization separate from the Federation (in the same sense that the Navy is separate from the Fed Gov). The diplomatic corp is a separate organization that they give a ride to once in awhile. There are even a few episodes where they are on combat patrol along the neutral zone if I recall.

It isn't until TNG that the two start to blend together and they become more scientists/diplomats that just happen to have guns and armoring.

 Frazzled wrote:

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
Akira Class are dedicated warships of the Federation.

The 'transformer' ship you're remembering was the Prometheus class I think.

Yes indeedy. We are geeking out this morning!

Scifi ship to ship combat is a favorite thing of mine, hence my love of BFG.

Whilst I mostly loathed Insurrection, it's detailing of certain weapons as being illegal and especially the Son'a speech to the 'bad' admiral, about the aging federation not being able to keep it's vaulted principles in the wake of other powers rising up was very good.

"Federation support. Federation procedures. Federation rules. Look in the mirror, Admiral. The Federation is old. In the past 24 months, they've been challenged by every major power in the quadrant: the Borg, the Cardassians, the Dominion. They all smell the scent of death on the Federation. That's why you've embraced our offer. Because it will give your dear Federation new life."

The Next Generation showed us the Federation at the height of it's 'Golden Age', where all the enemies were contained (romulans across neutral zones, klingons at quaint pets... I mean allies) or insignificant (ferengi as comic relief baddies, a billion 'angry little primative' races) until the Borg showed up.

You can see this in the ship design of the Galaxy Class, a giant science boat/luxury liner followed by the Sovereign Class, a stripped down, armed and armored warship designed to withstand borg cubes in war. The Golden Age ended with the Borg attack in Best of Both Worlds and the nails in it's coffin were the Dominion War and the increase in aggression across the quadrant.

I welcomed this and felt if they had gone with the Section 31 series, instead of the prequel Enterprise series, the star trek franchise could have been reinvigorated for the new, intelligent and cynical audience. But the show was held down by the millstone of the legacy of Gene Roddenberry and keeping to his 'happy happy, joy joy' future vision, which didn't fit with the darkness of the post 9/11 US viewing world, a world the scifi of Battlestar Galactica tapped straight in with.

You're my gold star poster of the week MGS.

Awww, shucks! Thanks man.

What has 2 thumbs and enjoyed MGS's thoughts on ST?

This guy.

 Ahtman wrote:
In TOS Starfleet is most certainly a military organization separate from the Federation (in the same sense that the Navy is separate from the Fed Gov). The diplomatic corp is a separate organization that they give a ride to once in awhile. There are even a few episodes where they are on combat patrol along the neutral zone if I recall.

It isn't until TNG that the two start to blend together and they become more scientists/diplomats that just happen to have guns and armoring.

And wear uniforms and occasionally say things like "phasers fire!"


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:
Akira Class are dedicated warships of the Federation.

The 'transformer' ship you're remembering was the Prometheus class I think.

Yes indeedy. We are geeking out this morning!

Scifi ship to ship combat is a favorite thing of mine, hence my love of BFG.

Whilst I mostly loathed Insurrection, it's detailing of certain weapons as being illegal and especially the Son'a speech to the 'bad' admiral, about the aging federation not being able to keep it's vaulted principles in the wake of other powers rising up was very good.

"Federation support. Federation procedures. Federation rules. Look in the mirror, Admiral. The Federation is old. In the past 24 months, they've been challenged by every major power in the quadrant: the Borg, the Cardassians, the Dominion. They all smell the scent of death on the Federation. That's why you've embraced our offer. Because it will give your dear Federation new life."

The Next Generation showed us the Federation at the height of it's 'Golden Age', where all the enemies were contained (romulans across neutral zones, klingons at quaint pets... I mean allies) or insignificant (ferengi as comic relief baddies, a billion 'angry little primative' races) until the Borg showed up.

You can see this in the ship design of the Galaxy Class, a giant science boat/luxury liner followed by the Sovereign Class, a stripped down, armed and armored warship designed to withstand borg cubes in war. The Golden Age ended with the Borg attack in Best of Both Worlds and the nails in it's coffin were the Dominion War and the increase in aggression across the quadrant.

I welcomed this and felt if they had gone with the Section 31 series, instead of the prequel Enterprise series, the star trek franchise could have been reinvigorated for the new, intelligent and cynical audience. But the show was held down by the millstone of the legacy of Gene Roddenberry and keeping to his 'happy happy, joy joy' future vision, which didn't fit with the darkness of the post 9/11 US viewing world, a world the scifi of Battlestar Galactica tapped straight in with.

Excelsior!!!

interesting thoughts. So in 50 years does the Fedreation becoming the Interstellar Terran Empire? Do we get Spock with badass goatee but this time with quantum torpedoes? Yea baby yea.

Star Trek: Rebellion. Watch as War Commander Klarg tries to form an alliance of the battered Romulan, Klingon, and Borg, in a last desperate bid for freedom against against the tyranny of the Terran Empire. Yes.