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ashrog wrote: ...Except that the suit is the only thing that keeps his loved ones safe. If he hadn't had multiple suits stashed away, Tony, Pepper and Rhodey would all have died. And then Tony destroys them all? Maybe he plans to build a new suit. But what will he do in case of a supervillain attack between now and then?
Stop speaking nonsense. Just because Tony knows his identity is public, knows he has enemies like Vanko and Loki, knows there are hostile aliens and just plain old terrorists it is preposterous he'd keep a suit over a romantic gesture that turns billion dollar hardware into $20 fireworks. I mean, that's almost as stupid as sending three helicopters to kill Iron Man!
ashrog wrote: Also, the movie would have been half as long if Tony had prepared for the eventual attack on his home. Especially after he gave the Mandarin his home address. Surely Jarvis has some kind of early detection system that can spot attack helicopters? Or he could just invite Bruce to stay over for a couple days?
Clearly he put all the radar systems in the suits, duh? And where is someone like Stark going to get defense systems? What he's just gonna build them or something? And I suppose you think he should have had at least one of his 35 AI controlled suits (and it's radar) like on guard duty or something? Or he shouldn't have stayed there? Or he should have had any one of the non prototype fully armed suits there to jump into? Jeez man, you expect him to be some sort of genius!
ashrog wrote: Also, is the confrontation between Tony and Killian even a fight? The Iron Man suit can fly and has multiple ranged weapons, vs a guy who has to be within arms reach to do any damage. Could have had Killian in the Iron Patriot suit for a more evenly matched fight... though I guess they already did the "bad guy gets armor" angle in both of the other movies.
Look, if Tony Stark wants to go hand to hand against a guy who is essentially a Wolverine clone, who are you to argue? Just because he's nigh unkillable and can slice you up with a wave of his hands is no reason to give him a wide berth or result to the cowardly 'well I do have a gun...' mentality. Sif anyone would shoot Wolverine over melee? Tony even had a KNIFE!
Next you'll be complaining that after Tony found the secret international terrorist hideout, and that they had meta humans working for them, and that he had no Iron Man armour AND that they were 800 miles away he should have done something like call SHIELD. Nick Fury (and all the other Avengers) is a hard guy to reach- you think he's just gonna take a call from Tony Stark about the location of a terrorist he's been hunting since Iron Man 2? And I suppose you think that in addition to telling no one, rigging what amounts to a taser, grenades and a silenced pistol and going solo to storm said compound is stupid and needlessly risky? He's Captain Ame- well he's an Avenger so it's the same thing. And no, it doesn't matter he knows there are unkillable super soldiers in there. He's got a frakking taser!
And I suppose you think Killian was a moron for giving Pepper Extremis? How else could he possibly threaten her life and get Tony to work for him? What just hold a gun to her head? Risking blowing her up (because that would REALLY motivate Tony) OR giving her super powers (what's the worst that could happen?) is a far superior choice to the old 'gun to the temple' trick.
Ugh... sorry. I don't mind fantastical technology or minor technical issues but stupid characters just annoy me. The above is sarcasm, just in case anyone didn't get it.
For a real thing to think about ask yourself why Tony would ever build a manned suit again. The technology no longer requires his presence meaning all the accommodations/requirements of a pilot are extraneous and can be devoted to other things and of course the big one- he doesn't have to risk his life (which I'm guessing makes Pepper much happier).
I saw the film on Sunday, and I really enjoyed it. I thought it was definitely better than Iron Man 2 (which I also thought was pretty good). I'm not sure if I like it better than the first Iron Man, but the three films stand together in what I would consider one of the best Marvel trilogies overall, and when combined with the Avengers film, it definitely pushes Iron Man into the top tier of Marvel film characters.
Kojiro wrote: Next you'll be complaining that after Tony found the secret international terrorist hideout, and that they had meta humans working for them, and that he had no Iron Man armour AND that they were 800 miles away he should have done something like call SHIELD. Nick Fury (and all the other Avengers) is a hard guy to reach- you think he's just gonna take a call from Tony Stark about the location of a terrorist he's been hunting since Iron Man 2? And I suppose you think that in addition to telling no one, rigging what amounts to a taser, grenades and a silenced pistol and going solo to storm said compound is stupid and needlessly risky? He's Captain Ame- well he's an Avenger so it's the same thing. And no, it doesn't matter he knows there are unkillable super soldiers in there. He's got a frakking taser!
To be fair, consider Thor. By the time Coulson got to New Mexico, Iron Man 2's plot was done. 'Hey, we've got a giant robot killing people in a town'. Even dropping Stark a call for advice would have been smart. Consider the Incredible Hulk - we've got some gigantic monsters our military hardware can't touch rampaging around New York! Well, maybe we should call Stark... How about - We've got an alien invasion tearing apart New York, and the Avengers are on the way. Should we drop a call to that other guy who runs around in one of Starks suits, but jacked up to 11?
There's been plenty of times already when another character should have been called in and wasn't. And it'll keep happening.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/10 04:51:56
Part of the reason some of the things happened the way they did was because the films aren't shown in a linear order. For instance the night before Tony gets into a fight with Whiplash at Monaco is when the Hulk and the Abomination fight. The two incidents are maybe 12 hours apart.
As I understand it SHIELD didn't get that involved in Iron Man 3 becuase they are, timeline wise, involved in the events of Captain America: The Winter Soldier.
While it may not always be the case, it actually makes sense in this one why Tony wouldn't just call the Avengers either.
1) He is a narcissist. He may be likeable but unless he absolutely has no other options he won't want to ask for help.
2) The mere mention of New York sends him into panic attacks. He is still coming to grips that there are gods and aliens, and that he died momentarily in a wormhole. He isn't exactly jumping to see these guys at the moment. It also makes the post-credits sequence more meaningful as he is able to sit around with one of them without freaking out.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/10 05:33:08
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
-Loki- wrote: There's been plenty of times already when another character should have been called in and wasn't. And it'll keep happening.
I think there's a profound difference between not being able to get an individual and a massive organisation. Who knows where Stark was when Coulson spotted the Destroyer? Or what mission (or even the operational status of Warmachine- had to be getting upgraded sometime) during Avengers? I could even get behind SHIELD not having an Avenger class person but surely they could send a tactical team at least? And to not even tell them? Or the Department of Homeland Security or even local cops? It's not like his solo raid was imminent- he still goes shopping, knocks up some gadgets and then makes at least a 10 hour drive. But you're right, Rhodes is the most onerous of the people excluded simply because he actually does call him in the film.
My timing may be out but please tell me Rhodes is captured before Tony learns the location of the stronghold? If he's captured after... but then I guess the US military didn't care enough to ask Rhodes 'Where the hell have you been?! The Mandarin is threatening the President! NOW GET ON WITHOUT ANY SECURITY AT ALL!'. Why should Tony try calling his buddy, who has a suit, whose actually job it is to hunt the Mandarin? Crazy talk.
EDIT: Ok that Timeline is actually very cool. It certainly does explain the absence of certain people but alas it doesn't cover post Avengers.
.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/10 06:20:31
As far as anyone knew, the mandarin was just an everyday terrorist, no one knew he was using anything super-powered in the explosions. That might mean it didn't fall under S.H.I.E.L.D jurisdiction. Granted, tony's death should have grabbed their attention.
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Mr Nobody wrote: As far as anyone knew, the mandarin was just an everyday terrorist, no one knew he was using anything super-powered in the explosions. That might mean it didn't fall under S.H.I.E.L.D jurisdiction. Granted, tony's death should have grabbed their attention.
Except that at the end of IM2 when Stark is rejected by Coulson for the Avengers Initiative we clearly see Coulson is looking at 10 Rings information. Also In IM3 Tony explicitly directs JARVIS to get the SHIELD data on the 10 Rings. SHIELD is most definitely aware of and have been looking into the 10 Rings since well before things started blowing up. These guys existed since IM1- the Mandarin is Stark's Magneto.
I don't think the question was whether SHIELD would have heard or had intel on the Ten Rings, which oblivisiouly they would, but would they think they were in there jurisdiction i.e. metahuman antics. For regular terrorists there is still the CIA and Military.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
Ahtman is correct, SHIELD does primarily concern themselves with metahumans over regular affairs. But the Mandarin and his antics are explicitly stated in the film as being puzzling (though the public isn't aware) both in the location of attacks and- which is what will concern SHIELD- the manner of the attacks. They scream 'not a normal weapon' which is exactly when they get involved. They're gonna have some smart people working for them and they're not going to wait until someone uploads shaky video to YouTube to get involved.
Regardless, once Tony knows there's meta humans a) he should be telling *someone* and b) he should not be solo storming the place unarmoured.
Kojiro wrote: Ahtman is correct, SHIELD does primarily concern themselves with metahumans over regular affairs. But the Mandarin and his antics are explicitly stated in the film as being puzzling (though the public isn't aware) both in the location of attacks and- which is what will concern SHIELD- the manner of the attacks. They scream 'not a normal weapon' which is exactly when they get involved. They're gonna have some smart people working for them and they're not going to wait until someone uploads shaky video to YouTube to get involved.
I'm sure they would be looking into it, inasmuch as they would be gathering data like any other investigative body. We also have to recall that outside of Captain America, none of the other Avengers work for SHIELD and aren't just sitting around waiting for a call. Tony, while a member of the Avengers, certainly doesn't feel beholden to SHIELD. I would think Thanos would have to step out of a spaceship to get him to call Fury. It just wouldn't occur to him unless he felt a)completely outmatched and b)unable to handle it himself. SHIELD isn't in charge of these characters, and if they follow the comic arcs such as they have, at some point the Avengers will split with SHIELD as they don't take orders from a government agency.
Kojiro wrote: Regardless, once Tony knows there's meta humans a) he should be telling *someone* and b) he should not be solo storming the place unarmoured.
That is assuming that Tony isn't an infallible human being prone to pride, overestimating ones abilities, and errors of judgement. I think it makes sense that he doesn't call for more help then War Machine, but it will be hard to justify it every time I imagine.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
I'm sure they would be looking into it, inasmuch as they would be gathering data like any other investigative body. We also have to recall that outside of Captain America, none of the other Avengers work for SHIELD and aren't just sitting around waiting for a call.
Black Widow and Hawkeye both work for SHIELD and that's just the people we know about. And they have thousands of field agents.
Tony, while a member of the Avengers, certainly doesn't feel beholden to SHIELD. I would think Thanos would have to step out of a spaceship to get him to call Fury. It just wouldn't occur to him unless he felt a)completely outmatched and b)unable to handle it himself.
But he *should* feel completely outmatched and unable- at least until he gets a suit. Given he doesn't know of Rhodes or Pepper's abductions his need to drive all night and create weapons is bizarre. I mean he arrives there what, 10 minutes before his suit can finish charging and fly over there? Sure, grab your suits and go nuts. It's the unarmoured assault that is completely bat crap insane. And it appears to be for nothing since they suit comes flying in 10 mins later. He had it on a timer even so there's no excuse for him not knowing the window.
SHIELD isn't in charge of these characters, and if they follow the comic arcs such as they have, at some point the Avengers will split with SHIELD as they don't take orders from a government agency.
That's actually a really interesting thing you bring up because movie SHIELD isn't a government body. They answer to the multinational council (Whedon I believe didn't want they to come off as a branch of the US government).
That is assuming that Tony isn't an infallible human being prone to pride, overestimating ones abilities, and errors of judgement. I think it makes sense that he doesn't call for more help then War Machine, but it will be hard to justify it every time I imagine.
Given the theme of the movie- that Stark is struggling with what happened to him and his own near death/mortality- his choice is very odd. And overestimating is one thing. Overestimating is thinking you can beat Captain America in hand to hand. It's utter stupidity to believe you can defeat a bunch of Extremis with a taser.
I also thought that as th film progresses and the real people behind the Madarin becoem clearer - Tony might have considered that at least some elements of SHIELD knew all about it. Just because he uses their info I don;t think he trusts them or indeed gets the info directly- See the Avengers film.............
Currently only Cap A, Haweye and Black Widow work for Shield, the others are free agents and when together would go under the "Avengers" - as Tony says when with Loki - "thats what we call ourselves these days"
It it is a problem with comics and films alike that the more there is a variety of charcters that are not in a film/comic when they really should be you have to wonder why.
In this one, well my thoughts?
Thor - well he's off planet presumably moping after Natalie
Cap - Can't see Stark calling him in with his ego.
Black Widow/Hawkeye - on some secret mission and unreachable.
Hulk - hmm more difficult as they seem pretty pally and he would have been a great bodyguard for Pepper after the attack - maybe he had popped back to tibet for a rest or something.
SHIELD - Tony does not trust them at all and may have thought they were at least aware of the military programme to create Extremis
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As far as Tony storming the place without armor: it makes sense if you consider the existential crisis he is going through at the time. He starts the film thinking that the suit is the hero, and he is just some guy unable to do anything. Going solo (without the suit) is part of his realization that he is just as important, if not more so, than the suit.
The movie really has two heroes: Tony Stark, the guy with ideas and the skills to build the suits. And then the suits themselves. Both fight a significant portion of the movie alone, and both are weaker when they do. Stark gets hurt and locked up, the suits get destroyed. Lots of people are wearing suits in this movie (and other movies) and none are as good as Stark when he wears the suit. There is also an underlying theme of Stark trying to get to his suit, and of the suit trying to get to Stark.
That is the realization at the end of the movie: Stark is "the mechanic", the suit is the suit, but together they are Ironman. One can't exist without the other.
d-usa wrote: As far as Tony storming the place without armor: it makes sense if you consider the existential crisis he is going through at the time. He starts the film thinking that the suit is the hero, and he is just some guy unable to do anything. Going solo (without the suit) is part of his realization that he is just as important, if not more so, than the suit.
The movie really has two heroes: Tony Stark, the guy with ideas and the skills to build the suits. And then the suits themselves. Both fight a significant portion of the movie alone, and both are weaker when they do. Stark gets hurt and locked up, the suits get destroyed. Lots of people are wearing suits in this movie (and other movies) and none are as good as Stark when he wears the suit. There is also an underlying theme of Stark trying to get to his suit, and of the suit trying to get to Stark.
That is the realization at the end of the movie: Stark is "the mechanic", the suit is the suit, but together they are Ironman. One can't exist without the other.
Yep... that's how I took it too...
Of all things in this movie, I'm still bothered by the apparent fire-proofed clothing that Pepper Potts was wearing.
Tony running into the place on his own with a couple of gadgets was dumb. But it's super-hero-movie dumb, and I could get past it.
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Mannahnin wrote: Tony running into the place on his own with a couple of gadgets was dumb. But it's super-hero-movie dumb, and I could get past it.
heh... I thought that part was cool.
If you can believe someone can build the iron man suit... then, it's not THAT much of a stretch of the imagination that he can strap those gadgets on himself to take out the goonies.
Let’s talk a bit about THE MANDARIN now. If IRON MAN 3 has an element that is able to dynamically piss off fans of IRON MAN, it will be how most take in Ben Kingsley’s performance of this character. There’s a twist and reveal that changes everything that you’re expecting with this character. But that first twist when Tony meets him… I feel is not the only twist. And I have to talk about it in this review. Because in many ways it is incredibly intriguing to me.
The mere fact that one of the rings he’s wearing has the same symbol as Faran Tahir’s Raza – and we know that he was a part of an organization that was referred to as TEN RINGS – which we all took as being a reference to The Mandarin. Now in this film – we’re given a whole bunch of misdirection with The Mandarin. He’s given several names in the film. THE MANDARIN is his outward Television Terrorist persona. In private, Killian and all of Killian’s men refer to him as The Master, which also seems to be the security’s codename for The Mandarin as he is being transported and moved.
Then there’s who Tony Stark finds coming out of a bathroom to bed two beauties he found in the Mandarin’s chambers. Tony has the drop on him – and suddenly he’s an actor playing the part of the Mandarin. He’s laid back actor – who claims he’s being used to create a character for Killian. Tony wants to believe this immediately cuz Killian has engaged Pepper – and Tony does have jealousy issues regarding Ms Potts. Ben Kingsley’s performance as the Mandarin for the television threats is very deliberate and dramatic. As The Master – we never actually see him become The Master… except once, I feel. After Tony has been taken out of the room – and he’s asked by Killian and I believe it was James Dale’s Savin about what information he gave Stark… This is where I see a third persona – the most guarded of them all… He’s laughing about the whole situation, but when asked – his eyes get a completely different look – his voice becomes colder and he smiles and then the tone of his voice shifts… and he gets a serious look on his face, while smiling inside satisfied with himself.
Later, when he’s being interrogated by Rhodes and Stark, he gives them the Vice President as a clue. This is still really giving them nothing, they think the Vice President is in danger. This is actually misdirection that The Mandarin has given them. But let me ask you this… Why, in private, would Killian call a down on his luck actor, MASTER? Where did Killian and Maya get the money to finance their Extremis work? Perhaps The Master/The Mandarin has set in motion a second salvo at Tony. His men captured him in Afganistan and now this.
If Marvel is playing The Mandarin as I suspect – we will have a scene where Tony stumbles straight into a situation where he feels completely safe in his presence… and Kapow.
Sure, that’s all theory and hypothesis on my part, but pay very close attention to what Kingsley is doing with the role – there’s sub-text and layers to this performance and nothing is by chance. In many ways this could be the very embodiment of everything that Liam Neeson was trying to teach a young Bruce Wayne in BATMAN BEGINS. Theatricality & Deception. The Master indeed.
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Let’s talk a bit about THE MANDARIN now. If IRON MAN 3 has an element that is able to dynamically piss off fans of IRON MAN, it will be how most take in Ben Kingsley’s performance of this character. There’s a twist and reveal that changes everything that you’re expecting with this character. But that first twist when Tony meets him… I feel is not the only twist. And I have to talk about it in this review. Because in many ways it is incredibly intriguing to me.
The mere fact that one of the rings he’s wearing has the same symbol as Faran Tahir’s Raza – and we know that he was a part of an organization that was referred to as TEN RINGS – which we all took as being a reference to The Mandarin. Now in this film – we’re given a whole bunch of misdirection with The Mandarin. He’s given several names in the film. THE MANDARIN is his outward Television Terrorist persona. In private, Killian and all of Killian’s men refer to him as The Master, which also seems to be the security’s codename for The Mandarin as he is being transported and moved.
Then there’s who Tony Stark finds coming out of a bathroom to bed two beauties he found in the Mandarin’s chambers. Tony has the drop on him – and suddenly he’s an actor playing the part of the Mandarin. He’s laid back actor – who claims he’s being used to create a character for Killian. Tony wants to believe this immediately cuz Killian has engaged Pepper – and Tony does have jealousy issues regarding Ms Potts. Ben Kingsley’s performance as the Mandarin for the television threats is very deliberate and dramatic. As The Master – we never actually see him become The Master… except once, I feel. After Tony has been taken out of the room – and he’s asked by Killian and I believe it was James Dale’s Savin about what information he gave Stark… This is where I see a third persona – the most guarded of them all… He’s laughing about the whole situation, but when asked – his eyes get a completely different look – his voice becomes colder and he smiles and then the tone of his voice shifts… and he gets a serious look on his face, while smiling inside satisfied with himself.
Later, when he’s being interrogated by Rhodes and Stark, he gives them the Vice President as a clue. This is still really giving them nothing, they think the Vice President is in danger. This is actually misdirection that The Mandarin has given them. But let me ask you this… Why, in private, would Killian call a down on his luck actor, MASTER? Where did Killian and Maya get the money to finance their Extremis work? Perhaps The Master/The Mandarin has set in motion a second salvo at Tony. His men captured him in Afganistan and now this.
If Marvel is playing The Mandarin as I suspect – we will have a scene where Tony stumbles straight into a situation where he feels completely safe in his presence… and Kapow.
Sure, that’s all theory and hypothesis on my part, but pay very close attention to what Kingsley is doing with the role – there’s sub-text and layers to this performance and nothing is by chance. In many ways this could be the very embodiment of everything that Liam Neeson was trying to teach a young Bruce Wayne in BATMAN BEGINS. Theatricality & Deception. The Master indeed.
That's an interesting interpretation, and it might be kind of cool if they took that plot twist and twisted it back like that in a later Iron Man film.
Let’s talk a bit about THE MANDARIN now. If IRON MAN 3 has an element that is able to dynamically piss off fans of IRON MAN, it will be how most take in Ben Kingsley’s performance of this character. There’s a twist and reveal that changes everything that you’re expecting with this character. But that first twist when Tony meets him… I feel is not the only twist. And I have to talk about it in this review. Because in many ways it is incredibly intriguing to me.
The mere fact that one of the rings he’s wearing has the same symbol as Faran Tahir’s Raza – and we know that he was a part of an organization that was referred to as TEN RINGS – which we all took as being a reference to The Mandarin. Now in this film – we’re given a whole bunch of misdirection with The Mandarin. He’s given several names in the film. THE MANDARIN is his outward Television Terrorist persona. In private, Killian and all of Killian’s men refer to him as The Master, which also seems to be the security’s codename for The Mandarin as he is being transported and moved.
Then there’s who Tony Stark finds coming out of a bathroom to bed two beauties he found in the Mandarin’s chambers. Tony has the drop on him – and suddenly he’s an actor playing the part of the Mandarin. He’s laid back actor – who claims he’s being used to create a character for Killian. Tony wants to believe this immediately cuz Killian has engaged Pepper – and Tony does have jealousy issues regarding Ms Potts. Ben Kingsley’s performance as the Mandarin for the television threats is very deliberate and dramatic. As The Master – we never actually see him become The Master… except once, I feel. After Tony has been taken out of the room – and he’s asked by Killian and I believe it was James Dale’s Savin about what information he gave Stark… This is where I see a third persona – the most guarded of them all… He’s laughing about the whole situation, but when asked – his eyes get a completely different look – his voice becomes colder and he smiles and then the tone of his voice shifts… and he gets a serious look on his face, while smiling inside satisfied with himself.
Later, when he’s being interrogated by Rhodes and Stark, he gives them the Vice President as a clue. This is still really giving them nothing, they think the Vice President is in danger. This is actually misdirection that The Mandarin has given them. But let me ask you this… Why, in private, would Killian call a down on his luck actor, MASTER? Where did Killian and Maya get the money to finance their Extremis work? Perhaps The Master/The Mandarin has set in motion a second salvo at Tony. His men captured him in Afganistan and now this.
If Marvel is playing The Mandarin as I suspect – we will have a scene where Tony stumbles straight into a situation where he feels completely safe in his presence… and Kapow.
Sure, that’s all theory and hypothesis on my part, but pay very close attention to what Kingsley is doing with the role – there’s sub-text and layers to this performance and nothing is by chance. In many ways this could be the very embodiment of everything that Liam Neeson was trying to teach a young Bruce Wayne in BATMAN BEGINS. Theatricality & Deception. The Master indeed.
That's an interesting interpretation, and it might be kind of cool if they took that plot twist and twisted it back like that in a later Iron Man film.
Because Killian wasn't just decieving the public, he was also decieving the people making the videos. If people were to actually know that he was a down on his luck actor, the word would spread. Minimizing the number of people that know the secret lowers the risk of it getting out.
Let’s talk a bit about THE MANDARIN now. If IRON MAN 3 has an element that is able to dynamically piss off fans of IRON MAN, it will be how most take in Ben Kingsley’s performance of this character. There’s a twist and reveal that changes everything that you’re expecting with this character. But that first twist when Tony meets him… I feel is not the only twist. And I have to talk about it in this review. Because in many ways it is incredibly intriguing to me.
The mere fact that one of the rings he’s wearing has the same symbol as Faran Tahir’s Raza – and we know that he was a part of an organization that was referred to as TEN RINGS – which we all took as being a reference to The Mandarin. Now in this film – we’re given a whole bunch of misdirection with The Mandarin. He’s given several names in the film. THE MANDARIN is his outward Television Terrorist persona. In private, Killian and all of Killian’s men refer to him as The Master, which also seems to be the security’s codename for The Mandarin as he is being transported and moved.
Then there’s who Tony Stark finds coming out of a bathroom to bed two beauties he found in the Mandarin’s chambers. Tony has the drop on him – and suddenly he’s an actor playing the part of the Mandarin. He’s laid back actor – who claims he’s being used to create a character for Killian. Tony wants to believe this immediately cuz Killian has engaged Pepper – and Tony does have jealousy issues regarding Ms Potts. Ben Kingsley’s performance as the Mandarin for the television threats is very deliberate and dramatic. As The Master – we never actually see him become The Master… except once, I feel. After Tony has been taken out of the room – and he’s asked by Killian and I believe it was James Dale’s Savin about what information he gave Stark… This is where I see a third persona – the most guarded of them all… He’s laughing about the whole situation, but when asked – his eyes get a completely different look – his voice becomes colder and he smiles and then the tone of his voice shifts… and he gets a serious look on his face, while smiling inside satisfied with himself.
Later, when he’s being interrogated by Rhodes and Stark, he gives them the Vice President as a clue. This is still really giving them nothing, they think the Vice President is in danger. This is actually misdirection that The Mandarin has given them. But let me ask you this… Why, in private, would Killian call a down on his luck actor, MASTER? Where did Killian and Maya get the money to finance their Extremis work? Perhaps The Master/The Mandarin has set in motion a second salvo at Tony. His men captured him in Afganistan and now this.
If Marvel is playing The Mandarin as I suspect – we will have a scene where Tony stumbles straight into a situation where he feels completely safe in his presence… and Kapow.
Sure, that’s all theory and hypothesis on my part, but pay very close attention to what Kingsley is doing with the role – there’s sub-text and layers to this performance and nothing is by chance. In many ways this could be the very embodiment of everything that Liam Neeson was trying to teach a young Bruce Wayne in BATMAN BEGINS. Theatricality & Deception. The Master indeed.
That's an interesting interpretation, and it might be kind of cool if they took that plot twist and twisted it back like that in a later Iron Man film.
Because Killian wasn't just decieving the public, he was also decieving the people making the videos. If people were to actually know that he was a down on his luck actor, the word would spread. Minimizing the number of people that know the secret lowers the risk of it getting out.
And yet, the bodyguards and hookers in the mansion were obviously allowed to know the secret. Admittedly, trying to find logical answers for every possibility in a movie is challenging enough, but in a comic book movie, it can be near impossible. It is an interesting theory, but perhaps a bit of wishful thinking in hoping to see Ben Kingsley's masterful performance again.
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whembly wrote: If you can believe someone can build the iron man suit... then, it's not THAT much of a stretch of the imagination that he can strap those gadgets on himself to take out the goonies.
I don't know how you get from 'genius mechanical engineer' to 'super ninja infiltrator'. But regardless, the blunder here isn't that he can take out a few regular dudes with guns. it's the repeated director fiat. Stark is smart enough- especially having tangled with two of them and seen the research footage- to know that he simply is no match for an Extremis trooper except under the luckiest of circumstances. This is in the same way no one with half a brain would send three choppers to kill Iron Man- it just ain't gonna do the job. You need some foreknowledge the characters wouldn't have that your target will be acting like a moron. For the Mandarin it's 'Tony won't have any defenses or functional suits available' and for Tony it's 'The terrorist leader with super soldiers will employ none of them in his own defense'. Both attacks might succeed if the target isn't expecting the attack but Tony knows something is coming and the Mandarin/Killian is well aware he's America's Most Wanted- both of them should be hyper vigilant but neither utilise the clear and obvious defensive options. That this occurs twice is hilariously bad writing, and the corollary of those examples is that both of them should know their attack is doomed.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/13 11:25:22
OK I really enjoyed it, but it could have been the three rum and cokes and two crown royals I had while watching it. Although enjoyable there seemed to be serious jump the shark moments. Er why…
Spoiler:
*Why did he try to off Iron Man, when he wants to hire Iron Man to finish the Project?
*Why does he have the whole Mandarin terrorist thing in the first place?
*Why is he hiding? This guy has a breakthrough that can apparently repair limbs and heal bodies. If you can reknit tissue, maybe you can cure genetic diseases and cancer too? He would be hailed a hero by generations. Think about it, the movie basically shows the dawn of immortality for mankind. Next to that Iron Man aint gak.
*Why did he give it to Pepper?
*Why is Iron Man not shooting the BGs up instead attempting close strafing? I mean, they fly and all.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
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-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
whembly wrote: If you can believe someone can build the iron man suit... then, it's not THAT much of a stretch of the imagination that he can strap those gadgets on himself to take out the goonies.
I don't know how you get from 'genius mechanical engineer' to 'super ninja infiltrator'. But regardless, the blunder here isn't that he can take out a few regular dudes with guns. it's the repeated director fiat. Stark is smart enough- especially having tangled with two of them and seen the research footage- to know that he simply is no match for an Extremis trooper except under the luckiest of circumstances. This is in the same way no one with half a brain would send three choppers to kill Iron Man- it just ain't gonna do the job. You need some foreknowledge the characters wouldn't have that your target will be acting like a moron. For the Mandarin it's 'Tony won't have any defenses or functional suits available' and for Tony it's 'The terrorist leader with super soldiers will employ none of them in his own defense'. Both attacks might succeed if the target isn't expecting the attack but Tony knows something is coming and the Mandarin/Killian is well aware he's America's Most Wanted- both of them should be hyper vigilant but neither utilise the clear and obvious defensive options. That this occurs twice is hilariously bad writing, and the corollary of those examples is that both of them should know their attack is doomed.
It was a standard action movie infiltration by the main lead actor into the enemy base - reality does not come into it never has in dozens of films.
Tony's ego is pretty legendary and so his complacency so sending the choppers was a gamble but again I am not sure if they were even bothered if it worked or not – it’s a part of the campaign to promote the terrorist organisation as a viable threat enabling the real bad guy to get all his defence funding… Also Pepper is very unhappy about the whole thing with broadcasting the challenge and they are all about to leave for a safer location when the choppers attack
Killian is a classic bad guy (and also going mad as the film progresses) and is assuming that is never going to be found.
Using Extremis as a Cure all – well it does have a quite a bad side effect of people blowing up……….in massive explosions – not sure that would get through all the medical hoops to be cleared as a viable drug.
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Mr Morden wrote: Using Extremis as a Cure all – well it does have a quite a bad side effect of people blowing up……….in massive explosions – not sure that would get through all the medical hoops to be cleared as a viable drug.
Don't forget that only the ones that survive the process have to worry about blowing up. Dieing is a pretty harsh side effect as well.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
I saw it over the weekend. I quite liked it. Naturally I ignored the truly gaping plot holes as I do with 99% of movies.
This had a good feel. It was also nice that for once the bad guys weren't wearing suits too....
I could see Avengers 2 being Iron Man's last film though. Downey doesn't need the boost anymore even though getting in shape isn't as bad for him as it is for Hemsworth and Evans it's still pretty harsh on a dude his age.
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Hulksmash wrote: Naturally I ignored the truly gaping plot holes as I do with 99% of movies.
Considering 99% of the time people misuse that term I'd be curious as to what you think were plot holes. Remember, a plot hole is something that goes against the internal consistency of the diegesis set within a narrative, not an error or 'something I didn't like'. The classic example being that in Fantastic Voyage they have to leave the body in X hours because the shrinking process wears of and they return to normal size, and at the end of the film they abandon the ship inside the guy and swim out, at which point they regrow. The plot hole being that the ship still has to return to normal size and was left inside they man, but it didn't do so.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
Internal consistancy. Bear in mind this is a movie tied into a movie universe. A universe that includes a fair number of other movies.
Also bear in mind that by ignore 99% of glaring plot holes means I'm fully involved in suspesion of disbelief. Which fills in many of those plot holes just by nature.
When has Iron Man ever gone one on one with people outside of his suit? Doesn't happen. Did in this movie. That's not a dislike, that's contrary to the character's previous actions and contrary to his established character.
This may not be a plot hole but the ability to throw the suit onto Pepper. Seemed like he needed the wiring to get it to work on himself but nothing for Pepper.
Flame hands being hot enough to melt armor one second and suddenly not hot enough in the next scene (excluding the controlled burn scene with Iron Patriot). If they can glow hot enough to melt the metal in Iron Man's suits and slice through it how are they even fighting in hand to hand.
Shooting the cheif scientist (as mentioned earlier) thereby requiring Stark to "fix" the virus thing.
Hell, somehow not having a tracking Id on your lead scientist and attacking the house that the only two people in the world likely to be able to fix the virus thing are located at the same time.
Still not sure how an explosion kills the stump armed girl but doesn't kill the other agent or Killian. Especially when the explosions they survived were much more powerful.
Let's not even get into three helicopters shooting up a mansion in Malibu between numerous flight bases in SoCal and there being no military response.
Let's leave out that they don't even infer why he doesn't call in support once he realizes what he's dealing with. That could be attributed to his ego.
I suspend disbelief because I'm in a movie to have a good time. Not pull it apart. As, with most novels, movies just don't stand up to that kind of critique. I enjoyed Iron Man 3. It just had quite a few plot holes that would be pretty glaring if I didn't enjoy the genre or the actors in the film so much.
All that said none compare to Serenity when being in space means you still have to fly in a straight line.....
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/13 21:47:35
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Suits blow up far too easily, otherwise I enjoyed it.
I think the thing I liked about the previous films the most (and the Avengers) was the Iron Man's suit stood up to many things and kept going. These one just fall apart at the drop of a hat.
The Panic attack things were pretty lame too.
Look at how much punishment the Suitcase Suit takes and it still functions normally.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/05/13 23:34:31
40IK - PP Conversion Project Files
never has in dozens of films.
