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 hotsauceman1 wrote:
It has been the only place my family goes on vacation. I have been 11 times.

Ah. Then feth it. Aren't you like 18+ or something?

I even told her this is the last time im going, and if it wasnt for the whole family going, I would spend it on something else.
Correct I am 20. My family likes disney land. I not as much. Maybe when i have my own kids, maybe, but not until then.

I've been to Tokyo Disneyland once and Disney Sea Tokyo once, and Eurodisney (but it was for a work conference.)

Both Tokyo venues were excellent, as we went in the off season and it was not too crowded. I would not put up with a wait of more than 10-15 minutes to get on a ride.

Eurodisney felt cheap and crappy, in comparison. The staff were very good, though. They don't employ anyone who doesn't who doesn't speak at least two languages.

The best thing about Eurodisney is you can get on a train and go to sleep until you are back in London. No changes.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
It has been the only place my family goes on vacation. I have been 11 times.

Damn that's a lot of times and a whole lot of dollar for the same experience over and over again. Your obviously not that hard up, if you don't enjoy it any more why not suggest another destination. The whole world is out there to explore even staying within your own boarders offers unparalleled opportunities. Maybe if you showed a genuine interest in a destination, researched the place and presented it to your family as a alternative they might be up for it.

Personal I hate going to the same place even twice, if I'm going to spend all that money I would rather I spend it expanding my horizons.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
I even told her this is the last time im going, and if it wasnt for the whole family going, I would spend it on something else.
Correct I am 20. My family likes disney land. I not as much. Maybe when i have my own kids, maybe, but not until then.

20 is old enough to be left home alone.

Unless you're a pyromaniac or something.

It would make my family REALLY pissed if i said i didnt want to go on the family vacation.


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 Bangbangboom wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
It has been the only place my family goes on vacation. I have been 11 times.

Damn that's a lot of times and a whole lot of dollar for the same experience over and over again. Your obviously not that hard up, if you don't enjoy it any more why not suggest another destination. The whole world is out there to explore even staying within your own boarders offers unparalleled opportunities. Maybe if you showed a genuine interest in a destination, researched the place and presented it to your family as a alternative they might be up for it.

Personal I hate going to the same place even twice, if I'm going to spend all that money I would rather I spend it expanding my horizons.

I wish i could convince them of that, One of my cousins goes twice a year, another, three times a year before he had kids.
My family is just in love with it.
Im going to save up my savings and then go to a big trip net year for graduation from college, Even if i have to do it myself.

whembly wrote:

 azazel the cat wrote:

Newabortion wrote:I'm with Jihadin and whembly on this one. People (doesn't matter rich or poor) figured out how to beat a system, I'm sure that disabled person would hire themselves out to someone of any "class" as long as they got their $130 an hour.
Isn't it weird how the "1%ers" instead of paying the stupid $320 for a speed pass VIP tour they wanted to go the cheap sleeze way and pay half price? For the 1%ers have the title of "VIP" is just too tempting to pass up. Thats why I think this is just an "attack the rich" story. The story may be true but it being about rich people has to be bs.

I wouldn't be upset if I was standing in line and got passed by these people, I'd be cursing myself wondering why I didn't think of that.

Since you're already a fan of breaking the social contract, why take half-measures? Why not just assault your way to the front?

Break what "social contract"?

The feth?

Bangbangboom wrote:Lol what social contract, that we are all equal?

Newabortion wrote:LOL WUT, stop trolling me dude.

I don't troll. Ya know that thing you do, where you wait in an orderly fashion, until it is your turn, and is exchange, everyone else also does as much? That's part of the tacit social contract that everyone abides by: you wait, and everyone waits, and thus we all get our turn. It's what prevents it from being like Disney World in FLA, wherein 400 teenagers from Brazil all rush the gate to the ride, and the whole scene looks like an even-more-chaotic, brightly-coloured riot.


EDIT: On a side note, I remember back in the '90s I was in Euro Disney, and it was awesome. You know that dream, where you're in Disneyland, and there's almost nobody else there and so you never have to wait for any rides? That's what Euro Disney was like. Except there was no Matterhorn or Space Mountain.

I need to move to Canada.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
It has been the only place my family goes on vacation. I have been 11 times.

I have been to Disneyland more times than I can count, My Grandfather used to live in Florida, about an hour away from the Disney parks. Every summer, my dad would take two weeks Vacation off of work and drive us all down to see my grandfather for a week, and spend a week in disney. Sometimes we would go twice a year. I have been to Disney maybe 25 times or so, and I can not wait to go back. I love it there. It really is the happiest place on earth.

My parents are paying for another trip this Xmas so brother can renew his vows (I am officiating) at Christmas time. He got married at Disney 10 yrs ago.

It is so much fun, how can you not have fun there?

 azazel the cat wrote:
Because the family is only hiring that guide on the grounds that said guide is handicapped. Thus, it is exploiting the handicapped person, to the detriment of everyone else.

And? They are paying good money to have a guide and they are not hurting anyone.

Exploiting the handicapped? $130 an Hour is seriously a great wage and not exploitation.

I think it's a great idea on the part of the disabled guide.

Seriously, you're in a wheelchair and some rich family is taking you to disneyland and paying you $130/hr as well!

I asked one of my mates from the RAF who is in a chair now due to MS, he thought it was fantastic, and is looking into doing the same thing at Alton Towers

I don't see the problem.

Rich people want to skip the line, disabled person wants to make easy cash, everybody wins.

Disney are only upset because they are undercutting disneys own VIP passes.

Yeah, I personally see it as breaking the social contratc as well. No matter who you are, we are all equal in the queue. Very Canadian of me I know.

However, I live in America, so the Social Contratc is a bit different. If you can pay $$$$ for something of course you are tacitly "superior" to everyone and "deserve" to get moved past all the other people who can't pay the $$$.

In America, $$$$ makes you an inherently better person dontcha know.

 Easy E wrote:

In America, $$$$ makes you an inherently better person dontcha know.

I take umbrage to that... But, I'm sure you're being snarky here.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
It has been the only place my family goes on vacation. I have been 11 times.

I have been to Disneyland more times than I can count, My Grandfather used to live in Florida, about an hour away from the Disney parks. Every summer, my dad would take two weeks Vacation off of work and drive us all down to see my grandfather for a week, and spend a week in disney. Sometimes we would go twice a year. I have been to Disney maybe 25 times or so, and I can not wait to go back. I love it there. It really is the happiest place on earth.

My parents are paying for another trip this Xmas so brother can renew his vows (I am officiating) at Christmas time. He got married at Disney 10 yrs ago.

It is so much fun, how can you not have fun there?

IT is not that it isnt fun, It is, especially with kids. But It is nothing new, my mom asked why Im planning on going to resturants i havent been to then rides, I told her "I have been on every ride"
I just want something new, that is why for graduation next year it is vegas.

This will be really easy to fix. Let the disabled go through the special door to the front, but they still have to wait there while a disney employee goes through the line as a proxy. Then they switch at the front.

This way, the convenience is still there and the park is accommodating disabled guests, but they are not skipping in line.

 Rented Tritium wrote:
This will be really easy to fix. Let the disabled go through the special door to the front, but they still have to wait there while a disney employee goes through the line as a proxy. Then they switch at the front.

This way, the convenience is still there and the park is accommodating disabled guests, but they are not skipping in line.

And cost Disney more labor hours? Nah...

I really don't see this as a big deal. This is coming from a Dad who took his two young squigs to Disney last year by himself... and had to wait in line.

 Rented Tritium wrote:
This will be really easy to fix. Let the disabled go through the special door to the front, but they still have to wait there while a disney employee goes through the line as a proxy. Then they switch at the front.

This way, the convenience is still there and the park is accommodating disabled guests, but they are not skipping in line.

or the disabled person has to wait for the rest of their party. If they are a single, it doesn't matter that much as singles get to jump ahead a lot of times too.


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 whembly wrote:

 Easy E wrote:

In America, $$$$ makes you an inherently better person dontcha know.

I take umbrage to that... But, I'm sure you're being snarky here.

I'm honestly not sure anymore.

The best snark has a ring of truth to it.

HEck, you dont even have to be disable, My mom was carrying around a stroller with a 1 year old and a 3 year old.
They let her in(She was a 58 year old lady with my two young cousins)
Quite frankly, Why SHOULD disabled people wait? They have had alot of gak thrown at them, maybe just letting them cut is just something we can do.

 whembly wrote:

 Rented Tritium wrote:
This will be really easy to fix. Let the disabled go through the special door to the front, but they still have to wait there while a disney employee goes through the line as a proxy. Then they switch at the front.

This way, the convenience is still there and the park is accommodating disabled guests, but they are not skipping in line.

And cost Disney more labor hours? Nah...

I really don't see this as a big deal. This is coming from a Dad who took his two young squigs to Disney last year by himself... and had to wait in line.

You're underestimating disney and their willingness to fix problems for money.

DeathReaper wrote:

 azazel the cat wrote:
Because the family is only hiring that guide on the grounds that said guide is handicapped. Thus, it is exploiting the handicapped person, to the detriment of everyone else.

And? They are paying good money to have a guide and they are not hurting anyone.

Exploiting the handicapped? $130 an Hour is seriously a great wage and not exploitation.

1. They are hurting everyone else in line by forcing those people to wait even longer, just the same way a line-jumper hurts everyone.
2. You made two statements that should not be conflated. While $130 an hour is a great wage, it is still exploitation on its face.

The disabled person is getting paid because of their disability. How is this any different from a beautiful person getting paid by a designer to model clothes because of their beauty?

You only view it as exploitation because you believe a person with a disability should be able to offer more to society then helping the rich to skip a line.

Guess what they can! But in the given example someone has decided that they can gain more monetary reward this way.

It is the impatient person with to much disposable income being exploited here.

Bangbangboom wrote:The disabled person is getting paid because of their disability. How is this any different from a beautiful person getting paid by a designer to model clothes because of their beauty?

It's not. There are few industries with more exploitation than fashion. In fact only porn might take fashion's crown on that one, and even then that's only a "maybe".

I think we have very different views on what exploitation is azazel

 azazel the cat wrote:

DeathReaper wrote:

 azazel the cat wrote:
Because the family is only hiring that guide on the grounds that said guide is handicapped. Thus, it is exploiting the handicapped person, to the detriment of everyone else.

And? They are paying good money to have a guide and they are not hurting anyone.

Exploiting the handicapped? $130 an Hour is seriously a great wage and not exploitation.

1. They are hurting everyone else in line by forcing those people to wait even longer, just the same way a line-jumper hurts everyone.
2. You made two statements that should not be conflated. While $130 an hour is a great wage, it is still exploitation on its face.

How is paying a disabled person cruel/exploitation?

They are not hurting anyone, as the disabled person is legally in the park, paid for a ticket, and gets the convenience of being able to ride the ride when they get to the ride.

Disney does this for persons in wheelchairs, they have for many many years.

I don't care about the disabled person. That's capitalism.

I care that people are paying extra money to skip lines at disney world. I don't care who that money is going towards, that is not a thing that should be possible. Disney is going to need to use line proxies to allow disabled people to stand in line without standing in line.

Trit

I do know some disabled people who wouldn't have the ability to actually wait 1 to 2 hours to get on a ride, simply because of the nature of their disability.

Disney isn't going to stop *linecutting*, because it brings in the bucks. They have a VIP service which does the same thing, it's just that the disabled people are undercutting.

Easy solution. Just allow the disabled person on the ride and the carer.

DeathReaper wrote:

 azazel the cat wrote:

DeathReaper wrote:

 azazel the cat wrote:
Because the family is only hiring that guide on the grounds that said guide is handicapped. Thus, it is exploiting the handicapped person, to the detriment of everyone else.

And? They are paying good money to have a guide and they are not hurting anyone.

Exploiting the handicapped? $130 an Hour is seriously a great wage and not exploitation.

1. They are hurting everyone else in line by forcing those people to wait even longer, just the same way a line-jumper hurts everyone.
2. You made two statements that should not be conflated. While $130 an hour is a great wage, it is still exploitation on its face.

How is paying a disabled person cruel/exploitation?

They are not hurting anyone, as the disabled person is legally in the park, paid for a ticket, and gets the convenience of being able to ride the ride when they get to the ride.

Disney does this for persons in wheelchairs, they have for many many years.

Don't strawman. I didn't say it was cruel, I said it was exploitation.

This process is hurting everyone who stands in line legitimately. If you consider time to be a commodity, then everyone in line has it stolen from them. If it was *just* the handicapped person who jumped the line, I wouldn't have a problem with it. But as it stands, there are people who evidently have been able to exploit the handicapped person's disability for their own gain. Whether or not said person is compensated is not particularly relevant to whether or not they are being exploited. The Indian kid that made your jeans was being compensated (poorly, however) for being exploited to do so, just like the naive farmgirl you watched getting fethed on camera was compensated for being exploited there.

 azazel the cat wrote:
Don't strawman. I didn't say it was cruel, I said it was exploitation.

This article discusses the term exploitation in the meaning of using something in an unjust or cruel manner.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exploitation

One of my friends has a problem with his leg ligaments were he gets injured very often. He has come in w/ a leg support cast thing at least twice this year, and other times it was not as bad, but he said he couldn't walk for more than a few minutes w/ out facing extreme pain. He was working out a week before the bands disney trip. His group of friends got to get through all the lines, and I think he was pushed in the bands performance by a disney character. It was pretty awesome, and lucky. That is all.

DeathReaper wrote:

 azazel the cat wrote:
Don't strawman. I didn't say it was cruel, I said it was exploitation.

This article discusses the term exploitation in the meaning of using something in an unjust or cruel manner.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exploitation

Huh. Look at that.

Again: I didn't say it was cruel, I said it was exploitation.

Now, if you want to engage with the argument I've put forward, then let's discuss. But do not waste my time by trying to justify your obvious strawman. The situation described is obviously exploitive, but there is no cruelty involved. If you disagree with my sentiments on the issue, then let's hear why.

Indeed, exploitation does not require the exploited party to dislike the act.