40K 2013 - The year of Robohammer?

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**Asmodai Asmodean**

Are people seriously crying over the awesome release schedule and veritable cornucopia of new units? Maybe we should have just stayed stuck in 2nd edition and never ever ever progressed beyond 10-man armies.

40K is an exercise in creativity. Don't like the new models? Make/kitbash your own. All the rules provide are rules, and the consensus which allows you to field them.

**-Loki-**

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
Are people seriously crying over the awesome release schedule and veritable cornucopia of new units?

No, they're griping about flyers and giant walkers being shoehorned into every release.

I don't see the problem, as I'm a fan of both, but I can certainly see how someone who didn't want a giant Eldar walker, but did want plastic aspect warriors, would be miffed at this.

**Ailaros**

Yeah.

Plus, I suppose those who get a tiny pang of self-satisfaction by not taking over-the-top units (like myself), can bask ever so slightly more in their self-righteous vindication.

In fact, I almost hope that Matt Ward DOES write the next guard codex and give it some sort of ludicrously overpowered monstrous creature just so that I can not field it.

**DeffDred**

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
Are people seriously crying over the awesome release schedule and veritable cornucopia of new units? Maybe we should have just stayed stuck in 2nd edition and never ever ever progressed beyond 10-man armies.

40K is an exercise in creativity. Don't like the new models? Make/kitbash your own. All the rules provide are rules, and the consensus which allows you to field them.

Awesome release schedule? You mean the years of waiting for the models to come out of the warehouse they were sitting in?

Cornucopia? A new flyer... Big stupid looking walker... Wraithguard got some new bitz.... am I missing anything on this veritable endless list?

10 man armies? I don't think I ever saw a second edition army that small.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

-Loki- wrote:
but I can certainly see how someone who didn't want a giant Eldar walker, but did want plastic aspect warriors, would be miffed at this.

Yup. That's exactly why my Eldar are now in the Swap Shop.

**MajorStoffer**

Ailaros wrote:
Yeah.

Plus, I suppose those who get a tiny pang of self-satisfaction by not taking over-the-top units (like myself), can bask ever so slightly more in their self-righteous vindication.

In fact, I almost hope that Matt Ward DOES write the next guard codex and give it some sort of ludicrously overpowered monstrous creature just so that I can not field it.

I like that way you think. I already get some of that satisfaction by not using vendettas, manticores or power axe blobs.

New edition nerfs vehicles? MOAR LEMAN RUSSES!

**TheDraconicLord**

MajorStoffer wrote:
Ailaros wrote:
Yeah.

Plus, I suppose those who get a tiny pang of self-satisfaction by not taking over-the-top units (like myself), can bask ever so slightly more in their self-righteous vindication.

In fact, I almost hope that Matt Ward DOES write the next guard codex and give it some sort of ludicrously overpowered monstrous creature just so that I can not field it.

I like that way you think. I already get some of that satisfaction by not using vendettas, manticores or power axe blobs.

New edition nerfs vehicles? MOAR LEMAN RUSSES!

Ailaros wrote:Yeah.

Plus, I suppose those who get a tiny pang of self-satisfaction by not taking over-the-top units (like myself), can bask ever so slightly more in their self-righteous vindication.

In fact, I almost hope that Matt Ward DOES write the next guard codex and give it some sort of ludicrously overpowered monstrous creature just so that I can not field it.

Hipsters, hipsters everywhere

I'm hoping the Imperium of Man gets a "generic" giant walker. A Knight

Since Knights are huge but aren't Titans (yet), they could be the SM / IG giant walker. Heck, if what my FLGS owner told me it's true, they are exclusive to the Adeptus Mechanicus, so they are generic enough to use with everyone of the IoM.

Me, I'm so happy. I started 40k last October if I remember correctly, and I already considered all the armies awesome. With these new units I'm pretty much jumping with joy.

**Fenrir Kitsune**

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
40K is an exercise in creativity. Don't like the new models? Make/kitbash your own. All the rules provide are rules, and the consensus which allows you to field them.

Any game is like this, not just 40K.

**Art_of_war**

Vaktathi wrote:
Wilytank wrote:
Cool, then they should lose structure points so they can be handled in 1500 points.
In all honesty they are very easily handled in 1500pts. If you can handle 3 Leman Russ tanks (which a TAC list should) in 1500pts, you can more than deal with a Baneblade, as a BB has roughly the same combined resiliency and firepower (10" blast and 5" demo cannon, 2 lascannons and 3 HB's versus 3 battlecannons and 3 lascannons for or 3 BC's and 9 HB's for roughly the same points) but can be combined against as a single target. If someone tries taking two in 1500pts, they'd have only a third of their points left for Troops, HQ, AA, transports, etc, which would leave the army easily defeated, and three would be impossible. BB's aren't the ridiculous titans with D weaponry that are typically severly undercosted, they're just basically a Leman Russ X3.

QFT

however where most folks object is the 10" template for the main gun... do not forget to shoot the autocannon at a targe first for twin-linked lols- 'what do you mean it scattered!'

On topic...

the GK/Eldar/Tau MCs at the moment 'fit' the respective armies- lets face it the Riptide fits the battlesuit development fluff quite well. Though with all of these MCs around we could see more Dark Eldar, as MC players whine when you spam splinter fire at them

.

Where GW have to be careful is what they do with armies such as IG, well a new tank perhaps? or put the thunderbolt in there to counterbalance the undoubted vendettas nerf that i'm sure will be coming

Otherwise as long as they do not take it 'too far' then i am neutral on the subject- as the 'rule of cool' tends to outweigh most of these concerns as much as it pains me to say it

just my humble opinion

**-Loki-**

Art_of_war wrote:
the GK/Eldar/Tau MCs at the moment 'fit' the respective armies- lets face it the Riptide fits the battlesuit development fluff quite well. Though with all of these MCs around we could see more Dark Eldar, as MC players whine when you spam splinter fire at them .

You're the first person I've ever seen say that the Dreadknight fits the Greyknights. It really doesn't at all.

**rems01**

There's been a grand total of 3 large walker units. That's hardly a trend. It's 3 big walkers that more or less fit their respective races (excluding the dreadknight though i feel the fluff behind it is acceptable it's just the execution was lacking).

Flyers however are a trend and will continue to be so. You should expect that seeing how they're a core mechanic of the big rulebook now.

Recently we've experienced some of the fastest, most numerous codex releases. This is a good thing and should be welcomed. The miniatures are getting better and better. This too is a good thing.

Finally if you don't like a new unit then don't use it. No one's forcing you to. Convert your own if you like. I can't understand the culture of whining and entitlement that seems to have developed.

**-Loki-**

rems01 wrote:
Recently we've experienced some of the fastest, most numerous codex releases. This is a good thing and should be welcomed. The miniatures are getting better and better. This too is a good thing.

The people I see griping are two kinds - people who are annoyed at certain units being shoehorned into codices. This is valid.

And people griping that codex releases are fairly weak compared to 5th edition releases. This isn't really. The majority of 5th edition releases were fairly small, simply to add new stuff. The releases held up as what should be the standard for 6th edition are the big revamps, which really is unfair. Those 3 books (Grey Knights, Necrons and Dark Eldar) had massive revamps for a reason. They were massively old ranges in all, or nearly all, metal with sculpts that did not stand the test of time. There's only one army left that should have that kind of release expected - Sistsers of Battle. Even Eldar don't need it. The majority of their range still looks as fantastic now as it did in the early 90's. The stuff that doesn't look very good anymore is few and far between. Jetbikes and Warp Spiders, for the most part. The range just needs moving to pastic, which is something I was surprised at the lack of.

The rest are going to be exactly like we've been getting. A large kit on the oval base, a flyer or two, a finecast unit or two moving to plastic, a character moving to plastic and a finecast character or two. The reason we've been getting codices so fast is they a. stockpiled a few for quciker releases with 6th edition, and b. they're not putting as many new units in the books. If you want books faster and less new stuff, this esition seems like it's going to be for you.

**Paitryn**

tuiman wrote:
The army releases in 5th edition were so good, necrons, grey knights and dark eldar in particular. They all got a complete overhaul and fantastic range of models.

SO far in 6th rather than a new release its more like an "expansion". Bringing a codex in line with 6th, bolt on a flyer and oval base monster and then move on to the next one. Its a real shame in my opinion. I would love to start a new eldar or chaos army, but if they never update things like jetbikes or aspect warriors, basic chaos troops, then I probably never will.

Now I'm not saying that eldar etc need a complete revamp, but replacing miniatures that have been around for a ridiculous time should be expected.

Your talking about 3 armies that needed a revamp. 2 of those needed one desperately Those were armies that had not had an updated troop selection since early third.

**Verthane**

Shadowswords usable in 40K? Yes please, I've been wanting that for more than 20 years.

Honestly, I walk past the Baneblade model in the FLGS every single week, and with Apoc games being once or twice a year events, it's completely not worth buying.

A 40K model that's actually usable in games of 40K is something I would almost certainly buy, though!

**Ailaros**

TheDraconicLord wrote:Hipsters, hipsters everywhere

Wait, maybe you're right.

I like mainstream now, because hating mainstream is too mainstream.

Bring on the giant actuated metal men! Bring on the AV13 guard flier!

**TheDraconicLord**

Ailaros wrote:
TheDraconicLord wrote:Hipsters, hipsters everywhere

Wait, maybe you're right.

I like mainstream now, because hating mainstream is too mainstream.

Bring on the giant actuated metal men! Bring on the AV13 guard flier!

Now that's the spirit! Crush the enemy with your

-ness! You deserve your moment of glory!

**300Spartans1cup**

Solis Luna Astrum wrote:
775B53 wrote:
Do you know why this happened?

It's because of the leech companies like Chapterhouse that you people love so much. GW is now forced to release new kits right from the start to pre-empt any copyright infringement. It is basically Chapterhouse's fault that we never get core/existing units updated anymore. The only other option for them would be not to make any new units at all, in which case this thread here would be replaced with "Waaaaahh why doesn't GW release new units? they have no originality."

Combine this with their new fast production schedule (which people have been asking for for years and are now complaining about) and you can see how some pieces end up rushed.

Storm Raven. Worst looking model ever. The only reason I bought the piece of crap was because Chapterhouse made a conversion kit that makes it look like a real vehicle instead of the stupid flying pregnant guppy that it is. Chapterhouse was directly responsible for me putting an extra $82.50 in GW's pocket.

Good point, there is a guy at the hobbyshop i play at that has 2 Storm Ravens with the extensions. Probably had the same mentality.

Lobukia wrote: Necrons came after GK (no big walker).

Unless you count the Stalker.

**Da Butcha**

I'm kind of surprised (and very disappointed) that GW rolled out a ruleset with fortifications that you could purchase for your army, and rolled out a trend of larger plastic models, and then didn't produce fortifications for specific armies.

Seriously?

1. You can now take fortifications in your army.

2. Here are fortifications specific to your army, right in your army book.

3. Thank you for the money.

If people will buy a new flier or a new walker for their existing army, why not assume they would buy army-specific fortifications?

Instead, they roll out the Imperial stuff and just stop. What the heck? You wrote rulebook anticipating this stuff, then produced NONE of it?

**MajorStoffer**

Da Butcha wrote:
I'm kind of surprised (and very disappointed) that GW rolled out a ruleset with fortifications that you could purchase for your army, and rolled out a trend of larger plastic models, and then didn't produce fortifications for specific armies.

Seriously?

1. You can now take fortifications in your army.

2. Here are fortifications specific to your army, right in your army book.

3. Thank you for the money.

If people will buy a new flier or a new walker for their existing army, why not assume they would buy army-specific fortifications?

Instead, they roll out the Imperial stuff and just stop. What the heck? You wrote rulebook anticipating this stuff, then produced NONE of it?

I love that they release a trenchline, but no rules for it for Guard or anyone to buy as a fortification. We've got one in our group, and usually deploy it opposite some equally large ruin and such, because it's cool to use and such, but really, a trenchline, but no ability for the Imperial Freaking Guard to buy it?

Kind of weird, since terrain and fortifications were a big push in this edition (and the massive price hike last June to go along with it) yet they haven't really followed up on it.

**-Loki-**

I can't be the only one expecting an inevitable Fortifications supplement, can I?

I mean, it's fairly obvious. Don't put them in the codices, put them in another book.

**MajorStoffer**

-Loki- wrote:
I can't be the only one expecting an inevitable Fortifications supplement, can I?

I mean, it's fairly obvious. Don't put them in the codices, put them in another book.

Entirely possible. GW is really pushing the various expensive books now to act in concert with the expensive models. Becomming a touch irritating too, when all you want is a single rule/armylist/unit's rules, you've got to fork up $50+ on top of the actual models.

**kb305**

Dais wrote:
Large plastic models are what GW does best. Those big models are usually the coolest things in the army ranges as well. I can't see them not utilizing this core competency in some way. I doubt every faction will get a big robot but new tanks, flyers, and walkers of some kind are almost a guarantee.

no way. i find their new infantry kits to be almost always very good to tolerable.

on the other hand, while some are good most of the new big toys look like something only a little timmy would want
dreadknight-i hate the babycarrier. some love it, personal preference i guess.
dinobots, helldrake, coral/snowflake pheonix, eagle chariot thing, im probably missing a bunch but they all look like crap.

**master of ordinance**

kb305 wrote:
Dais wrote:
Large plastic models are what GW does best. Those big models are usually the coolest things in the army ranges as well. I can't see them not utilizing this core competency in some way. I doubt every faction will get a big robot but new tanks, flyers, and walkers of some kind are almost a guarantee.

no way. i find their new infantry kits to be almost always very good to tolerable.

on the other hand, while some are good most of the new big toys look like something only a little timmy would want
dreadknight-i hate the babycarrier. some love it, personal preference i guess.
dinobots, helldrake, coral/snowflake pheonix, eagle chariot thing, im probably missing a bunch but they all look like crap.

I know how you feel here. The new Ariel model, for instance, resembles a character from pokemon and has some of the most atrocius sculpting ever to the point it just is stupidly fugly
The dinobots are transformers, the animebot is terrible, and the babycarrier of doom is laughable.

**Asmodai Asmodean**

kb305 wrote:
Dais wrote:
Large plastic models are what GW does best. Those big models are usually the coolest things in the army ranges as well. I can't see them not utilizing this core competency in some way. I doubt every faction will get a big robot but new tanks, flyers, and walkers of some kind are almost a guarantee.

no way. i find their new infantry kits to be almost always very good to tolerable.

on the other hand, while some are good most of the new big toys look like something only a little timmy would want
dreadknight-i hate the babycarrier. some love it, personal preference i guess.
dinobots, helldrake, coral/snowflake pheonix, eagle chariot thing, im probably missing a bunch but they all look like crap.

#

Don't like them, don't buy them. Scratchbuild your own and stop whining.

**Las**

I really don't mind MCs but why do the new ones have to be SO freaking large? The pain of carting them around is just as much a dissuasion as the price tag to me.

**StarHunter25**

With all these megabots of doom, I hope my nids get a plastic scythed/barbed heirodule to out-enourmous all of the enourmous robots. Nids should ever be out-classed when it comes to MC imo

**Zathras**

775B53 wrote:
Do you know why this happened?

It's because of the leech companies like Chapterhouse that you people love so much. GW is now forced to release new kits right from the start to pre-empt any copyright infringement. It is basically Chapterhouse's fault that we never get core/existing units updated anymore. The only other option for them would be not to make any new units at all, in which case this thread here would be replaced with "Waaaaahh why doesn't GW release new units? they have no originality."

Combine this with their new fast production schedule (which people have been asking for for years and are now complaining about) and you can see how some pieces end up rushed.

Ok, you can tell us....just what position do you work at GWHQ?

**Tekksama**

Da Butcha wrote:
I'm kind of surprised (and very disappointed) that GW rolled out a ruleset with fortifications that you could purchase for your army, and rolled out a trend of larger plastic models, and then didn't produce fortifications for specific armies.

I'm thinking that if they put it in a book, then it will eventually have a model to go with it. Gone are the glory days of giving us Codices full of special characers that you have to "counts-as" when there is potential profit to be made in new sculpts. As far as terrain is concerned however I say they can take all the time they want - one of my favorite parts of the hobby is terrain crafting and I would hate it if they started making terrain part of the meta to the point that someone gives me trouble because the hill I made 10 years ago is .5 inches taller than the GW hill he paid 50 bucks and 250 points to have included in his army.

Back on topic though I don't think MCs will be the new "in thing" for this edition. From what I've seen so far most fatties (even the new ones) are still large, obvious targets who (disclaimer: typically) wither under consistent fire and seem to struggle to make their significant point investment back. Their prominence is probably part cool factor, part advertising by GW. I don't want to say anything derogatory like "money grab" since GW is a for profit company, but from a marketing perspective it makes a ton of sense:

Step 1: Release new Codex
Step 2: Make sure you have new showcase units (Big baddies, Elites, and HQ) set to release with the Codex to bump sales while the excitement is high

It's not that the new units are in any way meant to be game changers, it's just that they look FANTASTIC on the sale page. Plus there's no need to update the entire line at this point because older gamers will still spend money to get the new units to suppliment their existing army (and would be hesitant to re-buy their army just for updated minis), and newer gamers will still just buy the old kits because they have no other choice if they want to field a workable army.

Will the other models in the line get an update at some point? Heck yeah but it will be during another marketing push a few years down the line when a particular army stagnates in sales due to it's "so last decade" looks (or in the case of some Eldar units "so 20 years ago" looks, I'm suprised the Wraithguard dont have acid washed jeans and slap bracelets on).

**Kain**

Ailaros wrote:
Yeah.

Plus, I suppose those who get a tiny pang of self-satisfaction by not taking over-the-top units (like myself), can bask ever so slightly more in their self-righteous vindication.

In fact, I almost hope that Matt Ward DOES write the next guard codex and give it some sort of ludicrously overpowered monstrous creature just so that I can not field it.

Don't worry, he'll just give you a special character with 9 pages of eye searingly bad fluff but has rules and stats so good you'd be stupid not to take it.

**washout77**

I kinda feel like GW is trying to make Apocalypse and Epic the only way to play 40k. It seems slowly the amount of points people field and the amount of "epic" units that come out are getting higher and higher

Not that it is a bad thing, but if I wanted to play Apocalypse I would play Apocalypse. On top of that, they keep raising model prices. GW slowly loses loyal customers, and we lose even more money (or those who stay). No one really wins in these kind of situations.

**kb305**

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
kb305 wrote:
Dais wrote:
Large plastic models are what GW does best. Those big models are usually the coolest things in the army ranges as well. I can't see them not utilizing this core competency in some way. I doubt every faction will get a big robot but new tanks, flyers, and walkers of some kind are almost a guarantee.

no way. i find their new infantry kits to be almost always very good to tolerable.

on the other hand, while some are good most of the new big toys look like something only a little timmy would want
dreadknight-i hate the babycarrier. some love it, personal preference i guess.
dinobots, helldrake, coral/snowflake pheonix, eagle chariot thing, im probably missing a bunch but they all look like crap.
#

Don't like them, don't buy them. Scratchbuild your own and stop whining.

dont worry. havnt bought any.

washout77 wrote:
I kinda feel like GW is trying to make Apocalypse and Epic the only way to play 40k. It seems slowly the amount of points people field and the amount of "epic" units that come out are getting higher and higher

Not that it is a bad thing, but if I wanted to play Apocalypse I would play Apocalypse. On top of that, they keep raising model prices. GW slowly loses loyal customers, and we lose even more money (or those who stay). No one really wins in these kind of situations.

youre probably right. the end goal is probably to have 40k to have similiar or even higher model count than fantasy. maybe apoc will end up being the new standard 40k. personally, not my cup of tea. too much crap to buy, too much crap to paint, too much crap to transport.