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Whilst I am certainly enjoying the fact GW seems to have increased its output in term of releases - With Eldar imminent, that makes 5 factions since 6th Ed. hit - CSM, DA, Daemons, Tau and now Eldar.

- I am a little concerned that Giant MC's seem to be the way of things to come. Do you think this trend will continue with each subsequent release? Bigger and bigger MC's for the foreseeable future? The once all powerful Carnifex must be quaking in his paltry 60mm based, hoofed boots.

For a while, I though flyers would be the prevalent release, but heck, what do I know?


Mods: Please move to 40k discussion...

I think GW, in a panic to up profit, has just stopped renewing old models for the forseeable or at least, utterly minimizing it and so they must only make new units. We are seeing this in both Fantasy (no new spearmen for elves, just bizarre flying stuff, no new marauders for chaos, just a GIANT monster and random large stuff) and now 40k (giant walker time).

Producing new versions of old minis reduces the potential for sales, producing utterly new units 'forces' old players with complete armies to go out and add to them with these new units.

GW feels like it's starting to thrash about a bit as the level in the waterhole is dropping, I sense some more desperate moves to up it's return to shareholders (Kirby).

I don't think these are healthy signs for the company. I think perhaps the upper echelons considered the total rejigging of Grey Knights, Dark Eldar and Necrons to be highly expensive and so are holding off with other ranges for now.

Large plastic models are what GW does best. Those big models are usually the coolest things in the army ranges as well. I can't see them not utilizing this core competency in some way. I doubt every faction will get a big robot but new tanks, flyers, and walkers of some kind are almost a guarantee.

Why would GW bother to update old troop models when most people take only minimal troops? When was the last time you saw a real tournament list with more than the minimum? Necrons are the worst with 2-3 units of five models in most competetive lists.

each codex will continue to bring a sexy new bigger model with a hefty price tag on it, this drives profit

I wonder if they'll continue this idea with the upcoming Apocalypse release. Would be actually NICE in this case to see large plastic models.

Instead of paying Apoc-model prices for my Eldar Wraithknight.

 Samurai_Eduh wrote:
Why would GW bother to update old troop models when most people take only minimal troops? When was the last time you saw a real tournament list with more than the minimum? Necrons are the worst with 2-3 units of five models in most competetive lists.

Have you actually ever played at a tournament?

Many competitive lists rely on 3-4 minimum troop choices for strong list structure and objective capturing capability. Guard and Orks will probably be putting quite a large amount of points into troops choices, Nids may be investing in multiple Tervigons, all Marine codex's will have competitive lists with at least 3 troops choices and probably 4+ in some form of transport.. Dark Eldar and Grey Knights have a few lists where they spam or take 4+ troop choices to great effect, e.g Venom and henchmen/purifiers in Psy Razorbacks.

- I am a little concerned that Giant MC's seem to be the way of things to come. Do you think this trend will continue with each subsequent release? Bigger and bigger MC's for the foreseeable future? The once all powerful Carnifex must be quaking in his paltry 60mm based, hoofed boots.

So CSM got the Fiends and Tau got the Riptide. Chaos Demons didn't get anything (in terms of MCs) that they didn't already have and DA got nothing in terms of MCs. So that's two out of four codexes. I'm not sure that's enough of a track record to claim that it's all about the MC's now, so I really can't see it being "The way of the future".

Obviously all of the new armies will get pricey new flier kits, but that's not quite the same thing as a MC ...

I wonder what the Imperial Guard will get in terms of a big walker. I hope it's something like the power loader!

 TheCustomLime wrote:
I wonder what the Imperial Guard will get in terms of a big walker. I hope it's something like the power loader!

Im hoping for something like this:

Do you know why this happened?

It's because of the leech companies like Chapterhouse that you people love so much. GW is now forced to release new kits right from the start to pre-empt any copyright infringement. It is basically Chapterhouse's fault that we never get core/existing units updated anymore. The only other option for them would be not to make any new units at all, in which case this thread here would be replaced with "Waaaaahh why doesn't GW release new units? they have no originality."

Combine this with their new fast production schedule (which people have been asking for for years and are now complaining about) and you can see how some pieces end up rushed.

Waaah, why are these tiny 2 person startups picking on my favored multi-million dollar global corporation!

775B53 wrote:
The only other option for them would be not to make any new units at all, in which case this thread here would be replaced with "Waaaaahh why doesn't GW release new units? they have no originality."

Is that? Is that the only other option?

775B53 wrote:
Combine this with their new fast production schedule (which people have been asking for for years and are now complaining about) and you can see how some pieces end up rushed.

"Well, they want them fast, the only choice we have is to half-ass it, right?"

 Ouze wrote:
Waaah, why are these tiny 2 person startups picking on my favored multi-million dollar global corporation!

775B53 wrote:
The only other option for them would be not to make any new units at all, in which case this thread here would be replaced with "Waaaaahh why doesn't GW release new units? they have no originality."

Is that? Is that the only other option?

775B53 wrote:
Combine this with their new fast production schedule (which people have been asking for for years and are now complaining about) and you can see how some pieces end up rushed.

"Well, they want them fast, the only choice we have is to half-ass it, right?"

QFT

You have to be kidding me that you (775b aka guy that has never posted before now) think chapterhouse and kits manufacturers are to blame for GW pricing a single new model at a $115 price tag. If anything MORE people will buy 2nd hand making items when faced with ridiculous prices. Offer me a Wraithknight at 50-60 bucks? Cool I'll pick up 2-3. Offer me 1 wraith knight at $115? Cool let me start looking for a counts as.

Many of the troop selections in fantasy and 40k have relatively modern sculpts. I prefer for GW NOT to update these too often to slow down the scale creep.

Also, even models that have been around for awhile are new to new players anyway. I dont particularly like the large robots invading the 40k table top I think they look awkward and kind of diminish the look of the game to me.

Beastmen: Got slightly updated cores the last time, so I think they are fine.
Bretonnia: Are fine, in my opinion.
Demons: New core a book ago.
Dark Elves: Horrible, old core.
Dwarfs: Got updated core. Look decent, but are barely customizable.
High Elves: Horrible, horrible core.
Lizardmen: Decent, if very bland and uniform.
Ogres: Fine, but also suffer from monopose.
Orcs and Goblins: Both the Orcs and the Goblins are ancient, the Nightgoblins are fine.
Skaven: Fantastic, new cores
Empire: New, but horrible cores. Honestly, those plastics are a disgrace, since most of the detail is badly cast and parts of the models are simply intolerable in terms of quality. I have no idea what happened here. The 6th Ed. plastics were great. These are not.
Tomb Kings: Ancient core all around.
Vampire Counts: Newish ghouls and skeletons, ancient but somewhat serviceable zombies.
Warriors: Old barbarians and monopose, but serviceable warriors.
Wood Elves: Good core.

So, basically Dark Elves, High Elves, Orcs and Goblins, Empire and Tomb Kings are in dire need of a revision, in my opinion.

It won't make them as much money though, so it's not gonna happen.

 Rinkydink wrote:
- I am a little concerned that Giant MC's seem to be the way of things to come. Do you think this trend will continue with each subsequent release? Bigger and bigger MC's for the foreseeable future? The once all powerful Carnifex must be quaking in his paltry 60mm based, hoofed boots.

Carnifexes were always meant to be Tyranid equivalents of Dreadnoughts. GW just lacked the plastic technology to do huge organic models until the Mumakil. The Trygon and Tervigon are suitably huge (I know, I just finished a Carnifex and I'm working on a Tervigon now... so big). The only difference is the current large MCs are all super killy units, while the Tyrannofex is pretty terrible and the Trygon is pretty overpriced for what it does compared to these new units. The Tervigon is awesome, but it's psychic army support, not a big killy monster.

 Rinkydink wrote:
For a while, I though flyers would be the prevalent release, but heck, what do I know?

Flyers are more prevalent, actually. They're in more releases, and generally are dual kits or multiple kits.

Plastic flyers, big plastic single models (giant walkers, chariots, etc) , and moving from finecast to plastic (pathfinders, wraithguard, etc).

I tend to think that getting my elites/fast attack/special in plastic is preferable to getting updated troops/core.

The army releases in 5th edition were so good, necrons, grey knights and dark eldar in particular. They all got a complete overhaul and fantastic range of models.

SO far in 6th rather than a new release its more like an "expansion". Bringing a codex in line with 6th, bolt on a flyer and oval base monster and then move on to the next one. Its a real shame in my opinion. I would love to start a new eldar or chaos army, but if they never update things like jetbikes or aspect warriors, basic chaos troops, then I probably never will.

Now I'm not saying that eldar etc need a complete revamp, but replacing miniatures that have been around for a ridiculous time should be expected.

775B53 wrote:
It's because of the leech companies like Chapterhouse that you people love so much. GW is now forced to release new kits right from the start to pre-empt any copyright infringement.

That's certainly one way of looking at it.

Personally, if the end result is that GW are releasing new kits with the codex rather than having units sit for years on end without models, that seems like a good thing to me...

The only other option for them would be not to make any new units at all,...

Making several new kits or making none are the only two options available to GW?

Seriously?

Combine this with their new fast production schedule (which people have been asking for for years and are now complaining about)....

When you finally decide to give people something that they have been asking for, but do it in a half-assed way, yes, people will complain. That should hardly surprise anyone.

Daemons didnt get any new guys, Tau got one so +1

Chaos got thiers pooped on ( dont get me wrong great codex, and they needed a nerf) -1, the fiends are walkers, not really mc.

so basically mcs are on sqaure one. Really dont know what your talking about.

775B53 wrote:
Do you know why this happened?

It's because of the leech companies like Chapterhouse that you people love so much. GW is now forced to release new kits right from the start to pre-empt any copyright infringement. It is basically Chapterhouse's fault that we never get core/existing units updated anymore. The only other option for them would be not to make any new units at all, in which case this thread here would be replaced with "Waaaaahh why doesn't GW release new units? they have no originality."

Combine this with their new fast production schedule (which people have been asking for for years and are now complaining about) and you can see how some pieces end up rushed.

Strong first post
False dichotomy of peace...

 tuiman wrote:
The army releases in 5th edition were so good, necrons, grey knights and dark eldar in particular. They all got a complete overhaul and fantastic range of models.

SO far in 6th rather than a new release its more like an "expansion". Bringing a codex in line with 6th, bolt on a flyer and oval base monster and then move on to the next one. Its a real shame in my opinion. I would love to start a new eldar or chaos army, but if they never update things like jetbikes or aspect warriors, basic chaos troops, then I probably never will.

Now I'm not saying that eldar etc need a complete revamp, but replacing miniatures that have been around for a ridiculous time should be expected.

That's probably because Necrons, Grey Knights and Dark Eldar needed the huge revamps they got for a variety of reasons (old, bad models, mostly metal ranges, very limited ranges due to not being updated in so long).

The 6th edition books have all been armies that just need a little variety (which GW are adding with flyers and big kits) and some moving out of Finecast/metal to all plastic. Eldar, despite being the oldest range now in 40k, still have some of the best looking models in 40k. They don't need the revamp. They don't even need the variety as the Eldar range has always been plenty varied, which I assume is why they mostly just got the usual 6th edition stuff - big kit, flyers, moving from finecast to plastic. The only thing that surprised me was how little was release in terms of moving from finecast to plastic. I really expected some Aspect multi-kits.

775B53 wrote:
Do you know why this happened?

It's because of the leech companies like Chapterhouse that you people love so much. GW is now forced to release new kits right from the start to pre-empt any copyright infringement. It is basically Chapterhouse's fault that we never get core/existing units updated anymore. The only other option for them would be not to make any new units at all, in which case this thread here would be replaced with "Waaaaahh why doesn't GW release new units? they have no originality."

Combine this with their new fast production schedule (which people have been asking for for years and are now complaining about) and you can see how some pieces end up rushed.

Storm Raven. Worst looking model ever. The only reason I bought the piece of crap was because Chapterhouse made a conversion kit that makes it look like a real vehicle instead of the stupid flying pregnant guppy that it is. Chapterhouse was directly responsible for me putting an extra $82.50 in GW's pocket.

Honestly, 40k as we know it today basically started as Epic. Slowly over time, more and more stuff from Epic has found its way into 40k. Things like the introduction of apocalypse and fliers in 6th edition seems like a continuation of the general trend. In fact, GW now creates plastic models of things that for a long time were epic only (like the baneblade...)

It looks to me more like a long, continuing trend of making 40k a "full-sized" version of Epic than something particularly new that's happening.

That said, yeah, we're probably going to see a lot of monstrous creatures. When GW is done with that, it wouldn't surprise me to see more superheavies, and perhaps, years in the future, a plastic kit and rules for using the smaller titans in regular games of 40k.

 -Loki- wrote:

 tuiman wrote:
The army releases in 5th edition were so good, necrons, grey knights and dark eldar in particular. They all got a complete overhaul and fantastic range of models.

SO far in 6th rather than a new release its more like an "expansion". Bringing a codex in line with 6th, bolt on a flyer and oval base monster and then move on to the next one. Its a real shame in my opinion. I would love to start a new eldar or chaos army, but if they never update things like jetbikes or aspect warriors, basic chaos troops, then I probably never will.

Now I'm not saying that eldar etc need a complete revamp, but replacing miniatures that have been around for a ridiculous time should be expected.

That's probably because Necrons, Grey Knights and Dark Eldar needed the huge revamps they got for a variety of reasons (old, bad models, mostly metal ranges, very limited ranges due to not being updated in so long).

The 6th edition books have all been armies that just need a little variety (which GW are adding with flyers and big kits) and some moving out of Finecast/metal to all plastic. Eldar, despite being the oldest range now in 40k, still have some of the best looking models in 40k. They don't need the revamp. They don't even need the variety as the Eldar range has always been plenty varied, which I assume is why they mostly just got the usual 6th edition stuff - big kit, flyers, moving from finecast to plastic. The only thing that surprised me was how little was release in terms of moving from finecast to plastic. I really expected some Aspect multi-kits.

I agree that daemons, dark angels and tau didnt need much of a complete overhaul, they already had a good existing range and just needed more of an update plus a few cool toys.

However Eldar has a huge amount of metal in the line, and some of the plastics cough jetbikes cough, are such old models. I think eldar could have had a better update, unless they are still doing there wave system but I thought they are done with doing that.

To be fair I can just buy reavers and make them less "dark", and thats what I probably will do. I agree the range is very good and varied but some more plastic/updated models would have been nice.

I like all the new walkers (starting with the Dreadknight). They're fairly easy to kill, add a new dimension, and really look nice on the battlefield.

But all the "everyone gets one" hysteria is silly. Necrons came after GK (no big walker). Then CSM (I guess we can count Fiends as big walkers?, but certainly not Dreadknight like stuff). Dark Angels passed on the walker trend. After that, Daemons (still no big walker). Finally Tau (there we go).

So of the last 6, only the first and last go a big walker... now we're up to 3 new large walkers in 7 codicies (counting eldar).

I think you missed greater demons and demon princes.

Plus, you can hardly call the bloodthirster a counterexample of monstrous creatures...

Sorry if anyone brought this up already but I keep seeing people say that Daemons didn't get any large new models...

The Chariots. Thy have the large flyer base. They may not be as big but they are on the big base.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Lobukia wrote:
Necrons came after GK (no big walker).

Stalker?

Dark Angels passed on the walker trend.

They got a flyer instead.

After that, Daemons (still no big walker).

Chariots.

The thing is, if GW didn't release new units with each codex release, people would complain. But really, for most armies where else is there to go other than bigger?

Just introducing different troop options or standard vehicles eventually starts getting confusing and redundant. So going bigger, and introducing different unit types like flyers is the logical progression.

Also, repacks and recasts can be made outside of codex order, as there is an existing unit already, making them perfect "filler" releases to be used later, unlike new releases that must be released with codex as there is no standing model for them.

It's not a wave, because nothing is "missing" in the codex, it's just allows to focus on the pressing issue (updating everything) first, then take care of improving the model ranges.