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I think a Looted Wagon is the perfect example of "Rule of Cool". Start out with a Imperial Transport it Leman Russ and go from there. Personally my Looted Leman Russes double as BW's with a simple addition o the DeffRolla.

On a slightly less OP note:
As far as official GW models go, I use 1 Gorkamorka Trukk and never have complaints but people I've never met on Dakka in person would refuse to play me because of it. 100% GW non-forge world model!

definately not

The the OP's initial question, as long as they are decently converted to be "orky enuff", then I say go for it. At first I was skeptical, but that was until I pictured an ork riding a helldrake on the ground. Even better yet when the danged thing fails a "Don't press dat" roll.

Looted wagons are fluffy and fun. Heck, if it weren't for the monstrous creature status, I'd love to see looted riptides, wraithknights, dreadknights, or of course, looted carnifexes (As long as it's kept out of synapse)

(As long as it's kept out of synapse)

Oh damn, that would be hilarious!

 PipeAlley wrote:
Personally my Looted Leman Russes double as BW's with a simple addition o the DeffRolla.

Then you need to use some different models. The battlewagon is supposed to be a significantly larger model, so either your battlewagons are too small or your looted wagons are too big. And no, adding the deffrolla doesn't count for the size because it's not considered part of the hull (like dozer blades, gun barrels, etc).

 Peregrine wrote:

 PipeAlley wrote:
Personally my Looted Leman Russes double as BW's with a simple addition o the DeffRolla.

Then you need to use some different models. The battlewagon is supposed to be a significantly larger model, so either your battlewagons are too small or your looted wagons are too big. And no, adding the deffrolla doesn't count for the size because it's not considered part of the hull (like dozer blades, gun barrels, etc).

Give it a rest Pregrine, GW or FW does not sell a Looted wagon kit and as for the deffroller it depends fully what the two players decide at the start of the game.
Let people build their stuff! keep yer trap shut aboot these orkyfied tankz unless ohh... wait a ork stole ur teef, datz why you see grumpeh!

Looted Carnifex FTW.

Painboy on top, with a yoke and some stim injectors, banging (with a hammer) on probes stuck into the poor creature's head to make it turn left and right, while a looted biovore rides sidecar for the gun (grot poking it in the rear to make it shoot).

You're an orc, for God's sake, do as you please.

When I get to 15,000 chaos, I'm going Orc..just for opportunities like the above.

phatonic wrote:
Give it a rest Pregrine, GW or FW does not sell a Looted wagon kit and as for the deffroller it depends fully what the two players decide at the start of the game.
Let people build their stuff! keep yer trap shut aboot these orkyfied tankz unless ohh... wait a ork stole ur teef, datz why you see grumpeh!

In what way is he not letting people build their stuff?

Who are you to tell anyone to shut their trap?

Don't expect to be able to go on the internetz and tell people how awesome you are 'cause you are using questionable modelling techniques... you might just get called on it. Somehow I doubt his words are hurting anyone. If you find them so poignant, maybe he has a point?

 Peregrine wrote:

 PipeAlley wrote:
Personally my Looted Leman Russes double as BW's with a simple addition o the DeffRolla.

Then you need to use some different models. The battlewagon is supposed to be a significantly larger model, so either your battlewagons are too small or your looted wagons are too big. And no, adding the deffrolla doesn't count for the size because it's not considered part of the hull (like dozer blades, gun barrels, etc).

Just do what I do and have the Russ literally carry a metal wagon behind it.

In what way is he not letting people build their stuff?

It is clear from Phatonic's post that he is saying it in the spirit of "shut the feth up and leave us in peace to play the game in the method that is perfectly consistent with both the rules, and with the accepted convention of Looted Wagons" ~ one does not need to be physically preventing the construction of 'stuff' to ruin peoples fun when they try to use it.

As for his words, considering he's going around and trying to force people to play the game his way and not the proper way, I'd say thats grounds for one to tell someone to 'shut their trap'.

Still waiting for Peregrine to admit that he was wrong here. I'd say a 4-1 majority against his 'accepted convention' is the very definition of it not being accepted at all.

 Dakkamite wrote:
Still waiting for Peregrine to admit that he was wrong here. I'd say a 4-1 majority against his 'accepted convention' is the very definition of it not being accepted at all.

I'm not going to admit anything, since you're just making up random numbers to justify your MFA.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Dakkamite wrote:
Still waiting for Peregrine to admit that he was wrong here. I'd say a 4-1 majority against his 'accepted convention' is the very definition of it not being accepted at all.

I'm not going to admit anything, since you're just making up random numbers to justify your MFA.

I quoted every single person from the thread who gave an opinion to one side or the other of this debate, and after counting all such quotes came to the result of 8-1 (became 8-2 after another person jumped in on your side). I have given you ample opportunity to dispute any and all such 'votes'. Since you did not, and since you replied to that post and thusly admit that you have seen it, you either concur that 4-1 dakkanaughts disagreed with your 'accepted convention' and you are incorrect, or your simply refusing to admit defeat even when presented with conclusive proof that you are in fact wrong.

In the latter case, I have to ask ~ what majority would I need for you to accept that? Ten to one? A hundred to one? You against the world? Considering you wanted to use 51%, I'm a little surprised that you won't take 75% as a conclusive statement.

text removed.
reds8n

I think he will defend himself down to the last micron.

 Dakkamite wrote:
I quoted every single person from the thread who gave an opinion to one side or the other of this debate, and after counting all such quotes came to the result of 8-1 (became 8-2 after another person jumped in on your side).

You mean 8-3, 8-4 if you count me in the "no" side.

I have given you ample opportunity to dispute any and all such 'votes'. Since you did not, and since you replied to that post and thusly admit that you have seen it, you either concur that 4-1 dakkanaughts disagreed with your 'accepted convention' and you are incorrect, or your simply refusing to admit defeat even when presented with conclusive proof that you are in fact wrong.

I don't need to dispute anything, counting posts in a random thread (which only people interested in looted ork stuff are going to even read) is a terrible way of figuring out what the majority opinion is. Your 4-1 majority claim is about as relevant as my claim that "all my friends" say you can't.

If you want to get some numbers that are even remotely convincing then start a YMDC poll and make it clear up front that your objective in using a larger model is to make it easier to get cover/LOS blocking behind it.

If you cannot post without flaming or insulting other posters then do not post.

Or you won't be posting.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Dakkamite wrote:
I quoted every single person from the thread who gave an opinion to one side or the other of this debate, and after counting all such quotes came to the result of 8-1 (became 8-2 after another person jumped in on your side).

You mean 8-3, 8-4 if you count me in the "no" side.

I have given you ample opportunity to dispute any and all such 'votes'. Since you did not, and since you replied to that post and thusly admit that you have seen it, you either concur that 4-1 dakkanaughts disagreed with your 'accepted convention' and you are incorrect, or your simply refusing to admit defeat even when presented with conclusive proof that you are in fact wrong.

I don't need to dispute anything, counting posts in a random thread (which only people interested in looted ork stuff are going to even read) is a terrible way of figuring out what the majority opinion is. Your 4-1 majority claim is about as relevant as my claim that "all my friends" say you can't.

If you want to get some numbers that are even remotely convincing then start a YMDC poll and make it clear up front that your objective in using a larger model is to make it easier to get cover/LOS blocking behind it.

I wanted to, but you seemed to take issue with that.

Also, I counted 8-1 in that thread, 8-2 with the random extra, and 9-3 with the two of us added (as to why we would do that I do not know). As to why I chose that thread, its because that was the thread in which you made your 'accepted convention' statement and thusly where you could be expected to defend it.

I will make a poll then.

I'd also be interested to what what that guy said.

Edit; The Poll is up: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/529909.page#5671571

What I wanted to say earlier is that for me, a Monolith as a Looted wagon is a bit too big.

That being said, larger size does not mean larger AV! Take a closer look at your Battletank and Basilisk, the basi is actually wider than the tank, but the AV is quite different. Thicker layer of steel makes better armor, not how wide or tall it is. If that monolith had so much battledamage, exposed engine and holes in the armor I see no problem for that being a lower AV than 14 all around. The size is larger than a battlewagon, so I would rather see it as a battlewagon than a Looted wagon.

If there were constraints on the size I would NOT say Rhino size only, but rather a range between an old trukk (with added armor) to maybe a bit bigger than a battlewagon depending on how it is constructed (wooden house with trakks?). If it is larger than a battlewagon I would say that it would fit the Killkannon wagon much better. A battlewagon in my eyes can range from a bit bigger demolisher tank (with deffrolla and transport support/roof) to monolith size.

Not sure who actually uses the looted wagons for such purposes. As I see them they are a death trap as a transporter and a glasshammer with that boomgun attached. With a 36 range ord weapon, who would ever drive up and use it as cover?

1: A rhino and russ really are not the same size.
I think a few people may want to double check. (more height wise than anything)

2: It has the option of a boomgun, now, apart from a vindi and possibly a whirl, nothing around a rhino size has a weapon that would fit that description.

3: FW may have made a kit, a very long time ago.
This does not make it the poster boy for the model though, as FW still is not auto-accepted into 40k games.

4: The russ is IMO the best for the job. (size wise)
Again, check sizes, you will see its between rhino and Lraider size.
Also, i cant say ive seen the rhino used as a looted wagon in any codex, its usually a russ variant, even in the fluff section of its description.

5: Times change, so keep that in mind.
Ork trukk has nearly gone up to 3x the height and twice the length now.
The BW kit is new to the orks in terms of their mini's, so many wagons are still custom made.

6: Its orks, they do need to have some sway within rulings on vehicle size as they change far too much.


Long story short, i dont care what someone uses aslong as its done from a modeling idea, rather than a MFA idea.
If someones got a massive wagon, fine, aslong as the effort was there.

Heres a quick example of something huge, but i'd allow it:

Woopsy. I accidently made a wagon out of a Land Raider. In my defence though I bought this model second hand before there was a battle wagon kit. It was originaly a Chaos kit from a guy who rage quit because everyone complained about the chaos codex being broken. Haha how things have changed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and yes that ork down the bottom left is wearing a guardsmans helmet.

I think to round this off properly I'll offer this.

Peregrine, your points count more towards opinion than fact. There are a couple of images of Looted vehicles being Rhino-based or LRBT-based but there's nothing written down or specified saying a Looted Wagon must be either Rhino-based or LRBT-based. So in essence your argument is opinion-driven. This is OK since, not knowing how gaming works in your area, I would imagine there is a house-rule between you and gaming friend that Looted vehicles shouldn't be bigger than Rhinos or LRBTs. I can understand why you would consider a Looted LR for a wagon as MFA - there's a larger model blocking more LoS. Thing is though... it's a bigger model with AV11. It falls over to a stiff breeze. And because it's so big it explodes bigger (larger area for the explosions radius to cover), so you hit more models behind it. I will say though that a Looted Monolith, while awesome, is borderline acceptable. However, we aren't here to dictate how you treat wagon size, but neither are you to do the same.

Dakkamite, calm down a bit. You've made the point and others can see what you mean, but you don't have to start ripping into Peregrine because of his opinion. Yes he's very vocal about it but so are other people. Since nothing is in writing over specifics we can only house rule. So you can take that LR if your gaming buddies let you and he'll permit the Rhino/LRBT wagons in his games.