1850pt. CSM - fishing for the fastest army

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**Ailaros**

Because you can only hold 10 models in a CSM land raider. That would be all 10 cultists, and you can't take them in smaller squads.

And I don't know how much weaker it would be against MCs. I mean, it adds two powerfists and three lascannons that start firing turn 1. I'd be more worried about the anti-horde, what with losing the brand and the possibility of psychic shriek, etc. But, then, I'm not so worried about hordes.

It would also certainly be stronger against fliers, what with having a 2/3ds chance of landing a lascannon hit on a flier from just the extra vehicle.

**ansacs**

Ah my bad I have never used a CSM LR.

I see your point though what horde army that is good at moving up field is good against LRs?

**King Pyrrhus**

I really like list A actually.
Seems a fresh take on chaos and I really like the idea of that many termies in your face so quickly.

However I'm not sure it's the best idea to put a fist on the champion in each squad. You have to pay more points to put the fist there and you have to use it in challenges.
If you just give the fist to a random model in the squad I feel like you lose no effectiveness but gain points and survivability.

I really need to get my terminators painted and work out a good way to use a squad of ten.

**Happygrunt**

I love list A. It's different. It has a wonderful "shock and awe" theme. If you ended up picking the nightlords theme, list A. would be an excellent representation. The enemy lines suddenly turn into terminators.

I do worry how this list would deal with fliers, but other than that I really like it.

**Ailaros**

So, I'm trying to think about how I might go about reworking A, especially given its positive reviews. Basically, I'd be looking to drain unnecessary points spent on troops and allocate them elsewhere, and to find a way to become more immune to first blood.

What about something like...

A1 )

Huron

Cultists (10)
Cultists (10)

Terminators (10), champ with fist, combi-melta, 2x heavy flamers, 2x chainfists, 6x combi-meltas/plasmas

Terminators (10), champ with fist, combi-melta, 2x heavy flamers, 2x chainfists, 6x combi-meltas/plasmas

Terminators (10), champ with fist, combi-melta, 2x heavy flamers, 2x chainfists, 6x combi-meltas/plasmas

Havoks (9) - 4x lascannons
Havoks (9) - 4x lascannons

The idea is that the cultists start in reserves while the temrinators start on the board while the largish squads of havoks would basically get first blood every game without giving it up themselves. And then, of course, terminators.

... or if I really just wanted to double down...

A2)

Huron
Sorcerer - MoS, lvl 3 mastery, terminator armor

Cultists (10)
Cultists (10)

Terminators (10), champ with fist, combi-melta, 2x heavy flamers, 2x chainfists, 6x combi-meltas/plasmas, MoS, Excess

Terminators (10), champ with fist, combi-melta, 2x heavy flamers, 2x chainfists, 6x combi-meltas/plasmas, MoS, Excess

Terminators (10), champ with fist, combi-melta, 2x heavy flamers, 2x chainfists, 6x combi-meltas/plasmas, MoS, Excess

That's right, 30 FNP infiltrating terminators. Odds are, there's going to be some invisibility in there as well, among other possible buffs.

Of course, I could possibly see this with MoK, if I had something better to spend the extra points on, and I'd also consider MoT and swapping out huron for ahriman. Not sure if it's quite the best way to do things, though.

A3 )

Huron

Cultists (10)
Cultists (10)

Terminators (10), champ with fist, combi-melta, 2x heavy flamers, 3x chainfists, 6x combi-meltas/plasmas

Terminators (10), champ with fist, combi-melta, 2x heavy flamers, 3x chainfists, 6x combi-meltas/plasmas

Terminators (10), champ with fist, combi-melta, 2x heavy flamers, 3x chainfists, 6x combi-meltas/plasmas

Warp Talons (10) - Mark of Khorne

Why the warp talons? Basically, it's a tripling down on the win-the-ground-game strategy I'm going for. The massive quantity of anti-tank, though all the combi-meltas, chainfists, and the like means I've gotten vehicles handled, and the mass quantity of power weapons (as in, basically everybody has one) means that I can crush infantry as well.

Basically, this strategy relies on so heavily crippling my opponent turn 2 when everything hits close combat that it will be more than difficult to pry what I've got left out of their deployment zone.

**ansacs**

I think I really like A2. It just looks like a super aggressive and fun list.

**Blaggard**

I like all 3 of them. If you got for a custom renegade faction you could have your termi's represent any of them, allowing you to try them all and anything else you can think up.

**Happygrunt**

I still think list A. of the ones you just posted is the best bet. Plus, it gives you a guaranteed strike first turn if you roll low for infiltration or you can't deploy near your opponent due to servo skulls or the like. Where dose Huron go in the build?

**Ailaros**

In with the termies, I assume. I guess one could make the case for him hanging out with the cultists and showing up on preferably turn 3 or so.

Also, for my A#, I was thinking about possibly having a version that looks like #3, except with spawn. I've been pretty iffy on them, but it seems like with this kind of a list they could actually be useful. Well, that and a hell of an asset on scouring missions.

Or perhaps, maybe, bikes or raptors. I'm having a hard time balancing sensible list decisions for winning games against bombastic awesomeness that's fun and cool.

**Gharron**

Ailaros wrote:
... and by fastest, I mean the quickest turn-around time from buying boxes to playing a game.

With my current venture in imperial guard complete, I want to go back to tinkering with my CSM army. The problem is that I only ever made a few models, and they were berzerkers, which are currently more or less pointless to play at the moment. As such, I kind of consider my previous work more like an art project than the seeds of an army.

I've read over the new codex twice now, and have been talking to people, and, of course, it's not like I'm a noob to 40k or how to build a list either. That said, the balance I'm trying to strike is one between a reasonably powerful army, and an army that I can actually get onto the table with the relatively least time put into it as possible.

Here's what I have so far at 1850:

A.)

Huron

10x CSM - meltagun, combi-melta, lascannon
10x CSM - meltagun, combi-melta, lascannon

10x terminators - champ with fist, one dude with chainfist, everybody has a combi-weapon
10x terminators - champ with fist, one dude with chainfist, everybody has a combi-weapon
10x terminators - champ with claws, one dude with chainfist, everybody has a combi-weapon

Maulerfiend
Maulerfiend
Maulerfiend

The point to this list is that huron is going to make some number of those terminators infiltrate. Said infiltrating terminators and maulerfiends are going to slam into my opponent on turn 2. Those terminators unlucky enough to not infiltrate will arrive on turn 3. Basically, it's 1500 points of super-durable stuff ripping my opponent to shreds in his own deployment zone. I've got the CSM to hold my own objectives, but really, this list shines brightest when it denies my opponent their objectives, what with the terminators and maulerfiends.

B.)

Abaddon

4x terminators - champ with fist, chainfist, power fist, combi-weapons everywhere , mark of khorne
- Land Raider

5x terminators - champ with fist, chainfist, combi-weapons everywhere
- Land Raider

5x chosen - 5x meltaguns
5x chosen - 5x meltaguns

Land Raider
Land Raider

In my experience with playing guard, I've seen just how difficult AV14 is to kill, and bringing 4 land raiders means that I'm very, very likely to end the game with at least 2 or 3 land raiders still on the table (or, more likely, all four of them). Also, I start the game with literally nothing for any weapon S7 or worse (or, let's be honest, S8 or worse) can even damage at all. In the end, I've got a ton of meltaguns going forward, like the list above, but I also gain the durability of the armor, and I also gain 8 TLLCs. On top of that, I also gain the ability to play the game defensively if I want (say, in the situation of favorable scouring tokens, or whatever), as said lascannons and AV14 is going to be pretty tough to crack in a defensive position.

Plus, come on, Abaddon. Also, of course, this list is just 20 infantry models and 4 vehicles. Sounds pretty quick to me.

C.)

Lord - aura , burning brand, meltabombs
Lord - sigil, axe of blind fury

9x CSM - melta, combi-melta
- Rhino
9x CSM - melta, combi-melta
- Rhino
10x CSM - 2x meltas, combi-melta
- Rhino
10x CSM - 2x meltas, combi-melta
- Rhino
10x CSM - 2x meltas, combi-melta
- Rhino
10x CSM - 2x meltas, combi-melta
- Rhino

Predator - TLLC, 2x lascannons
Predator - TLLC, 2x lascannons
Predator - TLLC, 2x lascannons

Kind of bonks on quickness, what with being 60 infantry models and 9 vehicles, but I think this might well be within the time limits. The basic point of this is to beat up units early on with the preds and by mid-game be swarming my opponents in power armor, bolters, krak grenades and a big pile of meltaguns. Once again, the idea would be to put my opponent so far on the back foot early on that he has to spend the rest of the game recovering. In a way, this is a more balanced version of the above two lists, what with having more shooting and more troops, but less bonkers aggression.

D.)

Something else.

Pretty much the only thing I'm not terribly interested in is running a nurgle list, as form what little I know about how things are at the moment, it's that 95% of CSM players need to be taught a lesson that you can play CSM without playing nurgle. Also not too keen on helldrakes, as 100% of CSM players apparently need that same lesson for this unit. Plus, I think I'd have enough anti-infantry anyways.

List A) Depending on your outflank rolls with huron, why you infiltrate those maulerfiends and have them attack something asap and then deep strike your termis? You could have your whole army on him by turn 2 with decent dice rolls =)

**Ailaros**

Huron can't give infiltrate to maulerfiends.

Moreover, I was assuming that they'd be infiltrating rather than outflanking, the point of the A-style armies to be getting into close combat/melta range turn 2.