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I've been trying to find a picture of horses with parachutes jumping out of a plane. Surprisingly enough, it appears that this particular tactic has not been tried before (at least nobody bothered to write about it or take pictures if it did happen).

juggernaut979 wrote:I'm curious to get your opinions on this. it seems that imperial guard guardsmen are, in the individual unit, worthless. i find myself thinking, as i make a new list, this ive got to spend 150 points minimum on units of guardsmen that i have no hope at all of them doing anything but causing me further disappointment. this is not to say they cant be useful, but only in the blob and even they it is dispite their best efforts to fail. so i come to ask how you see the guardsman being improved in the future codex,if at all. i understand it is very doubtful that the profile will change , however i do think the unit would be infinitly improved by making the lasgun S4 AP5. i feel giving this sub par unit a gun that is on par with every other basic troop in the game is fair and would not break the unit. your thoughts?

The basic guardsmen unit is a bit expensive for what it does, but it's still useable. You're thinking of it too much like a 10man unit of Marines or Dire Avengers or the like. You shouldn't rely on them for raw firepower, they won't perform that way. They are there to make it impossible for an opponent to kill everything in a reasonable amount of time and force them to fight over every inch of tablespace and be gradually ground down in the process, while your heavier weapons and ordnance do the real killing.

Melissia wrote:What the Guard codex needs is internal balance, as others have said. Make Valkyries/Vendettas not so freaking overpowered that they ruin the fast attack slot, for example.

Well...it would also help if the other FA units were useful and/or costed better. Hellhounds at 130pts (134 if you buy smoke launchers and searchlight that comes standard on literally every other IG tank) is...hilariously expensive for an AV12 short ranged infantry killing non-skimmer tank in 6E, while 55-75pt Armored Sentinels have less firepower, survivability, utility than a Chimera, Rough Riders are...well what really needs to be said, and normal Sentinels simply do not have the lifespan or firepower to justify spending points on them. Yeah, the Vendetta is silly, but the other units in the slot likely wouldn't be taken much more if it weren't there.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 TheDraconicLord wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Make a vendetta a dedicated transport only option, maybe? Will that change anything?

I guess then you would start seeing "IG Flying Circus" becayse it would be a copy paste of the "Flying Bakery of Death" - 6 squads of minimum troops all in Vendettas.

And if that isn't enough, the IG player would fill the other slots with more flyers

Won't that be very expensive to pull off though?

I didn't say troops can have them either...

Perhaps I should have specified : When I said make the vendettas a dedicated transport option, I meant only for Elites and HQ choices. Why would a bunch of grunts be given access to a heavily armed and pricy gunship?

Okay so what if instead of making a FULLY ARMED VENDETTA GUNSHIP a dedicated transport, there was a stripped down version of the Valkyrie (i.e. no Hellstrike Missiles/Extra Armor or no heavy weapon upgrades such as multi-laser to lascannon) that was a fair chunk cheaper than a standard Valkyrie and could be offered to certain units i.e. a Vet squad with a particular Doctrine, Stormtroopers, CCS, PCS, etc...

Perhaps an option (and I know this is a bit out there but give it a thought will you?) for a version with ONLY the multilaser and no transport capacity... But the ability to transport 1 vehicle. Airdropping Hellhounds, Sentinels, possibly even artillery or tanks, etc... It might seem a little too much but it's been done before in real life hasn't it? And wouldn't it be easy enough? Just buy it as a dedicated transport and treat it exactly as you would a normal Valk transporting units but don't allow the carried vehicle to take any action whatsoever until the turn after it hits the ground.

I don't know what I'd put it at points wise... 75-90 points maybe? As an upgrade for certain squads? This isn't really meant to be a true suggestion but it's an interesting thought. To me IG "Air Cav" really hasn't ever felt like real air cavalry, this would allow some people to pull off some wicked Elysian Drop Troop lists.

As is, the Valkyrie just needs to be returned to its original AV11 (before they made it a skimmer) and it'd be fine as a dedicated transport, it doesn't have lots of firepower. The Vendetta really should be a Heavy Support option more than anything else.

 Vaktathi wrote:
Rough Riders are...well what really needs to be said, a

What about the Death Riders?

This thread is a fething joke.

Let's combine the suggestions made thus far so we can have 200 bolters flying around in vendettas.

 greyknight12 wrote:
Let's combine the suggestions made thus far so we can have 200 bolters flying around in vendettas.

And they shall all have rending

 Dakkamite wrote:

however i do think the unit would be infinitly improved by making the lasgun S4 AP5

No. No you do not get this for five points.

Well Tyranids get that for 5 points. Of course it only has a range of 12 and shoots just once..

 Yipyioh wrote:

Okay so what if instead of making a FULLY ARMED VENDETTA GUNSHIP a dedicated transport, there was a stripped down version of the Valkyrie (i.e. no Hellstrike Missiles/Extra Armor or no heavy weapon upgrades such as multi-laser to lascannon) that was a fair chunk cheaper than a standard Valkyrie and could be offered to certain units i.e. a Vet squad with a particular Doctrine, Stormtroopers, CCS, PCS, etc...

Or make the Valkyrie only as a dedicated transport, like the Chimera, but without the option to upgrade it to a Vendetta.

Perhaps an option (and I know this is a bit out there but give it a thought will you?) for a version with ONLY the multilaser and no transport capacity... But the ability to transport 1 vehicle. Airdropping Hellhounds, Sentinels, possibly even artillery or tanks, etc... It might seem a little too much but it's been done before in real life hasn't it? And wouldn't it be easy enough? Just buy it as a dedicated transport and treat it exactly as you would a normal Valk transporting units but don't allow the carried vehicle to take any action whatsoever until the turn after it hits the ground.

I believe that's called the Valkyrie Sky Talon, FW unit that is even more broken than the Vendetta. Less points than a Valkyrie for what is basically a Vulture gunship minus a weapon that can take multiple rocket pods (and then cost as per a basic Valkyrie), is a Heavy Support option - but doesn't take up an FOC slot. Yeah on that I think the FW rules are broken!

I think the Vendetta just needs to be a bit more expensive (its cheaper than a Vulture with a few options and the Vulture is meant to BE a gunship!!!) and taken out of Fast Attack, I think it should be a Heavy Support choice. Make it compete with the Russ for its slot in the FOC.

 Ross74H wrote:

 Yipyioh wrote:

Okay so what if instead of making a FULLY ARMED VENDETTA GUNSHIP a dedicated transport, there was a stripped down version of the Valkyrie (i.e. no Hellstrike Missiles/Extra Armor or no heavy weapon upgrades such as multi-laser to lascannon) that was a fair chunk cheaper than a standard Valkyrie and could be offered to certain units i.e. a Vet squad with a particular Doctrine, Stormtroopers, CCS, PCS, etc...

Or make the Valkyrie only as a dedicated transport, like the Chimera, but without the option to upgrade it to a Vendetta.

Perhaps an option (and I know this is a bit out there but give it a thought will you?) for a version with ONLY the multilaser and no transport capacity... But the ability to transport 1 vehicle. Airdropping Hellhounds, Sentinels, possibly even artillery or tanks, etc... It might seem a little too much but it's been done before in real life hasn't it? And wouldn't it be easy enough? Just buy it as a dedicated transport and treat it exactly as you would a normal Valk transporting units but don't allow the carried vehicle to take any action whatsoever until the turn after it hits the ground.

I believe that's called the Valkyrie Sky Talon, FW unit that is even more broken than the Vendetta. Less points than a Valkyrie for what is basically a Vulture gunship minus a weapon that can take multiple rocket pods (and then cost as per a basic Valkyrie), is a Heavy Support option - but doesn't take up an FOC slot. Yeah on that I think the FW rules are broken!

You do realize that Rocket Pods are available on a Valkyrie as well, yes? And that the Valkyrie Sky Talon can't take a TL Punisher Cannon, the only weapon worth running on a Vulture? The Sky Talon is not worth playing, let alone "more broken than the Vendetta", which is only not the most broken unit in the game because the Heldrake got FAQ'd.

In response to the original topic I'll just leave this here. It pretty much sums up my opinion nicely.


***edited to put pic up instead of a link***

I've had some great success with my 3 blobs of 20 guardsmen at 1500 points. Their entire goal for me is to hold objectives and halt the enemy advance long enough for my heavy ordnance to zero in and blow them to smithereens.

Every kill I've made with a Guardsmen is a neat thing to see, but that's not why I bring them. I bring them as an advancing wave to bog down the enemy advance while my Leman Russ's and Artillery do the damage I need done while my infantrymen grab the objectives.

I believe footguard isn't dead. Just the powerblob is. I advance my blobs up a lot, I'm pretty aggressive with them, and sure, some die. But bring enough and they get the job done.

I've had quite a bit of success with blob squads myself, but as Elector said, power blobs are dead. Advancing large 30 man wxpendable blobs that support heavy support choice however are quite tasty and handy. give them GLs and they can pop some transports on the way for a pathetic amount of points.

Make sure to put in a commi though, and proper support is necessary..... actually now that I think about it, my army really hasn't changed all that much since 3rd.

Horde of infantry + LRMBTs = fun.

Or just using blobs to shield your vehicles from assault.

Always fun.

Baktru wrote:

 Dakkamite wrote:

however i do think the unit would be infinitly improved by making the lasgun S4 AP5

No. No you do not get this for five points.

Well Tyranids get that for 5 points. Of course it only has a range of 12 and shoots just once..

Six points.

 Melissia wrote:
Or just using blobs to shield your vehicles from assault.

Always fun.

It's almost like infantry and armor are supposed to support each other! Guardsmen do a great job of shielding your bigger guns. It's kind of their job.

 Melissia wrote:
What the Guard codex needs is internal balance, as others have said. Make Valkyries/Vendettas not so freaking overpowered that they ruin the fast attack slot, for example.

Tau hear you, brother.

Although some people seem to like the flyers and the pirhanas.

 Kain wrote:

Baktru wrote:

 Dakkamite wrote:

however i do think the unit would be infinitly improved by making the lasgun S4 AP5

No. No you do not get this for five points.

Well Tyranids get that for 5 points. Of course it only has a range of 12 and shoots just once..

Six points.

Termagants cost 5 points.

 PrinceRaven wrote:

 Kain wrote:

Baktru wrote:

 Dakkamite wrote:

however i do think the unit would be infinitly improved by making the lasgun S4 AP5

No. No you do not get this for five points.

Well Tyranids get that for 5 points. Of course it only has a range of 12 and shoots just once..

Six points.

Termagants cost 5 points.

My bad.

 Yipyioh wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 TheDraconicLord wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Make a vendetta a dedicated transport only option, maybe? Will that change anything?

I guess then you would start seeing "IG Flying Circus" becayse it would be a copy paste of the "Flying Bakery of Death" - 6 squads of minimum troops all in Vendettas.

And if that isn't enough, the IG player would fill the other slots with more flyers

Won't that be very expensive to pull off though?

I didn't say troops can have them either...

Perhaps I should have specified : When I said make the vendettas a dedicated transport option, I meant only for Elites and HQ choices. Why would a bunch of grunts be given access to a heavily armed and pricy gunship?

Okay so what if instead of making a FULLY ARMED VENDETTA GUNSHIP a dedicated transport, there was a stripped down version of the Valkyrie (i.e. no Hellstrike Missiles/Extra Armor or no heavy weapon upgrades such as multi-laser to lascannon) that was a fair chunk cheaper than a standard Valkyrie and could be offered to certain units i.e. a Vet squad with a particular Doctrine, Stormtroopers, CCS, PCS, etc...

Perhaps an option (and I know this is a bit out there but give it a thought will you?) for a version with ONLY the multilaser and no transport capacity... But the ability to transport 1 vehicle. Airdropping Hellhounds, Sentinels, possibly even artillery or tanks, etc... It might seem a little too much but it's been done before in real life hasn't it? And wouldn't it be easy enough? Just buy it as a dedicated transport and treat it exactly as you would a normal Valk transporting units but don't allow the carried vehicle to take any action whatsoever until the turn after it hits the ground.

I don't know what I'd put it at points wise... 75-90 points maybe? As an upgrade for certain squads? This isn't really meant to be a true suggestion but it's an interesting thought. To me IG "Air Cav" really hasn't ever felt like real air cavalry, this would allow some people to pull off some wicked Elysian Drop Troop lists.

The vendetta just became the flying trasport from HALO!!!!! lol