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If you both ended the game with no models on the table, and an equal number of VPs, it is a draw. plain and simple.

In the OP's example, I would look at the exploding vehicle happening at the same initiative step as the model who strikes it. When you roll to penetrate, you roll on a results table. On a 6, the vehicle explodes. After exploding, the model is then destroyed.

There's a sequence that takes place for the whole event. You don't roll on the results table, see that the vehicle explodes and then say "STOP! TURNS OVER! I WIN!". That's not how I see RAW.

nosferatu1001 wrote:

 Super Ready wrote:
Acid Blood I can agree with. However, the original situation - the Chaplain exploding the tank - is as a direct result of the Chaplain's close combat attack, so it should still count as simultaneous there, right?

Why would it be? The explosion itself has an enforced sequence, that does result in the game ending conditions being met BEFORE the chaplain bites the dust.

You are told close combat attacks are simultaneous - nothing requires that *anything* within an I step is therefore simultaneous.

Perhaps you should reread the rule. It is very clear and states that the same I step is simultaneous.

Oddly enough, both players wiped out their opponent's army so both are awarded a crushing victory. Says so right on p 122.

Super Ready wrote:Acid Blood I can agree with. However, the original situation - the Chaplain exploding the tank - is as a direct result of the Chaplain's close combat attack, so it should still count as simultaneous there, right?

The Acid blood effect is a direct result of the HT getting wounded. Explodes is a direct result of the vehicle getting pinned. I'm not sure why you believe the timing on these would be different.

Fragile wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:

 Super Ready wrote:
Acid Blood I can agree with. However, the original situation - the Chaplain exploding the tank - is as a direct result of the Chaplain's close combat attack, so it should still count as simultaneous there, right?

Why would it be? The explosion itself has an enforced sequence, that does result in the game ending conditions being met BEFORE the chaplain bites the dust.

You are told close combat attacks are simultaneous - nothing requires that *anything* within an I step is therefore simultaneous.

Perhaps you should reread the rule. It is very clear and states that the same I step is simultaneous.

You still have yet to cite a rule that says everything in the step is simultaneous. Please do so as we have been asking for two pages now.

I did on the first page. First Blood, pg 122.

If two or more units from opposing forces are removed simultaneously (for exarnple, at the same Initiative step in an Assault phase)

The same INI step is given as GW's example of simultaneous.

Fragile wrote:
I did on the first page. First Blood, pg 122.

If two or more units from opposing forces are removed simultaneously (for exarnple, at the same Initiative step in an Assault phase)

The same INI step is given as GW's example of simultaneous.

Example being...
Controlling player rolls to hit, this is considered simultaneous to the Opposing players roll to hit (If it wasn't then you get all kinds of positioning problems...)
Controlling player rolls to wound, this is considered simultaneous to the Opposing players roll to wound, but not simultaneous to (either sides) rolls to hit.

This is what the rules say, the rules do not say all steps in a Innitiative step are simultaneous

 Nem wrote:

Fragile wrote:
I did on the first page. First Blood, pg 122.

If two or more units from opposing forces are removed simultaneously (for exarnple, at the same Initiative step in an Assault phase)

The same INI step is given as GW's example of simultaneous.

Example being...
Controlling player rolls to hit, this is considered simultaneous to the Opposing players roll to hit (If it wasn't then you get all kinds of positioning problems...)
Controlling player rolls to wound, this is considered simultaneous to the Opposing players roll to wound, but not simultaneous to (either sides) rolls to hit.

This is what the rules say, the rules do not say all steps in a Innitiative step are simultaneous

Are you claiming that captain and sergeant kill each other in combat the sergeant dies first because the captain has an invulnerable save? Because that really isn't what the rules say...

And again, it says CC attacks are simultaneous. One can extrapolate that wounds and casualties generated by those attacks can also be considered simultaneous which I do.

We are discussing the result of a CC attack and the result of 'Explodes!', which is not a CC attack. You are saying everything in the I step happens at the same time even beyond CC attacks and we are asking for your evidence.

A line that says two casualties in the same I step can be simultaneous does not mean all of them are.

You can try to justify your position how you want for HIWPI. But until you have a FAQ stating otherwise, GW stated that casualties in the same INI Step are simultaneous.

Did the vehicle Explode during the I Step? Yes. Then by rule, it is simultaneous with any other casualty in that I step.

Fragile wrote:
You can try to justify your position how you want for HIWPI. But until you have a FAQ stating otherwise, GW stated that casualties in the same INI Step are simultaneous.

Did the vehicle Explode during the I Step? Yes. Then by rule, it is simultaneous with any other casualty in that I step.

No. The rule uses 'during the same I step' as an example of when two models are removed at the same time because most will be removed at the same time... from CC attacks. There are always exceptions though and the sequence of events in an I step, the order of operation for the 'explodes!' mechanic and precedence from similar effects all point to the fact that casualties from the explosion do not happen until after casualties from CC attacks.

You seem to be completely unwilling to see that so play as you like, I think we are done here.

 tmo38 wrote:
so me and my freind were playing 1000 points eldar vs. dark angels and it ended with two models on the feild a war walker and my chaplin which then got into close combat i had managed to get a pin and blow it up but then the explosion killed me considering this made us tied in kill points how should we decide who won?

You both win this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7WlyuI7xGI

 FlingitNow wrote:

 Nem wrote:

Fragile wrote:
I did on the first page. First Blood, pg 122.

If two or more units from opposing forces are removed simultaneously (for exarnple, at the same Initiative step in an Assault phase)

The same INI step is given as GW's example of simultaneous.

Example being...
Controlling player rolls to hit, this is considered simultaneous to the Opposing players roll to hit (If it wasn't then you get all kinds of positioning problems...)
Controlling player rolls to wound, this is considered simultaneous to the Opposing players roll to wound, but not simultaneous to (either sides) rolls to hit.

This is what the rules say, the rules do not say all steps in a Innitiative step are simultaneous

Are you claiming that captain and sergeant kill each other in combat the sergeant dies first because the captain has an invulnerable save? Because that really isn't what the rules say...

Hmmm, Casualties are removed after saves. If you don't have a save I don't believe it stops that step existing, you are still removed at the 'Remove casualties step' if you do or do not get a save, which would be simultaneous, for both players in CC at that I step.

[edit] Sorry that was wrong, saves are inclusive in the Allocating wounds step, but the reasoning still applies