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 aapch45 wrote:
A lot of this has been geared towards the op, and gw prices.
as well as the analysis of opinions. I think we can all agree that each of us is more or a less a human being, and has a right to express an opinion, however much each of us agrees or disagrees.... that being said: what was the point of all this?
Re-reading the start of the thread showed me 1. The op doesn't like haters
2. The op likes games workshop

That's it.

Good. Lots of people like games workshop. Some for the games, the models, the setting.
Others don't. Some people see flaw in the models, the games, the background. Some people don't really care.

So again I ask, what exactly was the purpose of this?

Haters?

My face was plammed with the force of a thousand sons.

How does criticisim equate to hatred?

I really enjoy painting and modeling, the game can be fun but hard to find people to play with unless I want to go down to the local game store and enjoy a game while inhaling nerd BO. (Not being an elitist, but it seriously stinks in that play area). So I end up playing with friends who use my armies...I enjoy painting and collecting so much that i have enough space marines and tyranids for around 3 or 4 people to play in a single game.

I'm going to flesh out my chaos army next, complete with Angron and a forgeworld bloodthirster, after the tyranid release...after that will likely be necrons. I am thoroughly underwhelmed by the new marine release, and after 6k worth of black Templars I think I'm done for the remainer of 6th edition. I am fortunate enough to have a job with great pay and flexible hours (I'm in business to business sales) so it's not that I CAN'T afford the stuff, I just refuse to unless I really like the models I'm paying for.

That all said, gw is a tremendously stupid company with ridiculously ineffective and asinine business practices...I love this hobby and the 40k universe and aesthetic is the best IP in the business, it's just a shame that this particular company holds that IP.

When you can buy a model ship that's bigger and more intricate than a forgeworld thunderhawk for $50, it's hard to imagine how profit margins are suffering when they're selling land raiders for $75.

ids1984 wrote:


One of the reasons I've been happy with cost of GW products is they are made in the UK*, this alone pushes the cost up, minimum wage, taxes etc etc

A lot of the time companies costs they are compared to out source there production to China, you'll always pay more for a british made product.

Uh, so how come the books are made in China then?

 aapch45 wrote:
A lot of this has been geared towards the op, and gw prices.
as well as the analysis of opinions. I think we can all agree that each of us is more or a less a human being, and has a right to express an opinion, however much each of us agrees or disagrees.... that being said: what was the point of all this?
Re-reading the start of the thread showed me 1. The op doesn't like haters
2. The op likes games workshop

That's it.

Good. Lots of people like games workshop. Some for the games, the models, the setting.
Others don't. Some people see flaw in the models, the games, the background. Some people don't really care.

So again I ask, what exactly was the purpose of this?

The point? So we Dakkanauts can debate whether or not GW is a good company or not and whether or not haters are a waste of space. That's the backbone of Dakka!

although, admittedly, it might have gone a bit off track...

General Annoyance wrote:

 aapch45 wrote:
A lot of this has been geared towards the op, and gw prices.
as well as the analysis of opinions. I think we can all agree that each of us is more or a less a human being, and has a right to express an opinion, however much each of us agrees or disagrees.... that being said: what was the point of all this?
Re-reading the start of the thread showed me 1. The op doesn't like haters
2. The op likes games workshop

That's it.

Good. Lots of people like games workshop. Some for the games, the models, the setting.
Others don't. Some people see flaw in the models, the games, the background. Some people don't really care.

So again I ask, what exactly was the purpose of this?

The point? So we Dakkanauts can debate whether or not GW is a good company or not and whether or not haters are a waste of space. That's the backbone of Dakka!

although, admittedly, it might have gone a bit off track...

Haters?

Please, stop using the term.

It really, really does not help your argument.

@Imposter - People who have a bone to pick with GW* better?

General Annoyance wrote:
@Imposter - People who have a bone to pick with GW* better?

Who has a bone to pick with GW? Seriously. There is a difference between criticism of how a company operates, and hatred and disdain.

 Imposter101 wrote:

General Annoyance wrote:
@Imposter - People who have a bone to pick with GW* better?

Who has a bone to pick with GW? Seriously. There is a difference between criticism of how a company operates, and hatred and disdain.

If they are criticising GW's business ethic, doesn't that mean that they "have a bone to pick about GW"?

Yeah, I have my qualms with GW, but overall I too like them.

I mean, most of GW's flaws are justified. They relate to making money. At the end of the day, GW is a business and that's what they have to do. Most clothes stores put up the prices of coats, jackets, hats, gloves and scarves when it gets to winter. They don't do it out of spite, they do it because they genuinely will make money from it. GW is the same.

What I like most about GW, and what I'm grateful to them for, is for giving me a hobby that I genuinely enjoy that has led me to meeting new friends and spending many hours happily painting or gaming, rather than sitting twiddling my thumbs. I may have spent a large amount of money doing so, but, as I like to say, money enjoyed wasting is not wasted money.

General Annoyance wrote:

 Imposter101 wrote:

General Annoyance wrote:
@Imposter - People who have a bone to pick with GW* better?

Who has a bone to pick with GW? Seriously. There is a difference between criticism of how a company operates, and hatred and disdain.

If they are criticising GW's business ethic, doesn't that mean that they "have a bone to pick about GW"?

Not really. You used it in an exchange with the word hater, and seem to assume that these people have some sort of anger that they wish to vent onto poor old GW.

You have misunderstood me. I simply was referring to what the OP had said about in the post that started this thread. Whether or not I consider them "haters" or not is another matter, for it was not part of my "argument" (more like statement that Dakka is a site where people discuss and debate hobby matters).

General Annoyance wrote:
You have misunderstood me. I simply was referring to what the OP had said about in the post that started this thread. Whether or not I consider them "haters" or not is another matter, for it was not part of my "argument" (more like statement that Dakka is a site where people discuss and debate hobby matters).

Okay, but overall, the term is incredibly immature. Haters is a silly phrase used on YouTube, FaceBook, Etc to defend personalities or groups who come under attack by calling the opposing party jealous or some crap, instead of actually making a counter argument.

 Imposter101 wrote:

General Annoyance wrote:
You have misunderstood me. I simply was referring to what the OP had said about in the post that started this thread. Whether or not I consider them "haters" or not is another matter, for it was not part of my "argument" (more like statement that Dakka is a site where people discuss and debate hobby matters).

Okay, but overall, the term is incredibly immature. Haters is a silly phrase used on YouTube, FaceBook, Etc to defend personalities or groups who come under attack by calling the opposing party jealous or some crap, instead of actually making a counter argument.

indeed it might be - remember that this generation doesn't exactly have a broad spectrum of useful vocabulary. Sometimes I wonder why I bother to log into Facebook every day, but that is another matter altogether

GoliothOnline wrote:
I couldn't help but think that the OP is a Cron + SM player =/

To which my brain immediately conjured ;

"I love GW!" - Yours truly, SM + Cron player <3

But I digress on silliness, the game has a lot of flaws, updates takes years on matters that should only take weeks and the models cost an arm and a leg for materials that literally cost 1/10 of the cost per mold ..

Lol. Nearly right. Sw, eldar and purestrain genestelers

paulyf wrote:
This is in response to all the posts about how bad games workshop is. You know the ones "the hh books suck" ,"such and such a writer has ruined everything", "the prices suck and I am never playing again", "this codex is the so bad I am incapable of building an army to beat it so the whole system is broken"
Well I like games workshop. The background for both warhammer and 40k is fanrastic, giving us players plenty to discuss, build our own story lines around and smack talk about.
6th edition rocks. The introduction of fliers is a breath of fresh air in a system that had undergone several revisions without any major changes. I do understand that some people don't like change but I like the challenge.
Tau rock, don't have the army myself but I like the new direction. They are meant to be the fastest technological growing species and this codex shows it. Thingy magigy from the eldar once said they will one day eclipse even the eldars greatest triumphs.
The models are awesome.
A tactical marine costs you what? £2.50? A Lego person costs £2. Know what I prefer.

You said it!

I totally agree

The models are expensive but heck! The amount of enjoyment you can get out of them and the endless hours of Tender Loving Care you put into them makes it worth it.

As for over powered rules and such, just remember the term 'nothing is perfect' meaning there will always be weaknesses in the opposition.

The 40k hobby like all hobby's is something to be enjoyed in your own way, and other people's opinions should not tarnish it for you - as buddha quoted along the lines of 'do not believe anything anyone says to you, do not believe what I say to you, experience it first and then make your beliefs' - meaning that don't take people's word when they say Games Workshop is good or bad. Experience it for yourself first and then decide if it is for you.

Am I the only one getting tired of "Well, they are a business and businesses are designed to make money" as an excuse for price hikes and draconian IP behavior ? Other companies manage to find success without badgering their customers with price hikes, QA/QC issues, and informational blackouts. It's no secret that GW's battleplan as of late has been straight out of the short-term profits playbook. We can excuse it all we want, but it WILL have a long term effect on both the customer AND Games Workshop.

As an example: I used to play paintball competitively. In the late 90s and early 00s, the top names in paintball were Dye, WDP, and Smart Parts. All three produced high-end, electropneumatic guns or equipment and were wildly popular. HOWEVER, Smart Parts began to start cutting corners and upping prices. Moreover, they started getting really vicious with their litigation. They started suing other manufacturers over ridiculous gak (like using an electronic switch....something that was a part of EVERY electropneumatic gun). People defended Smart Parts. After all, they'd been around for a long time and the Shocker and Impulse were popular markers. More time passed and their prices went up while the guns got worse. In 2003, if you bought a shocker....it came with a Maxflo reg and Freak barrel. In 2006, the maxflo and freak were extra....and the gun was $99 more expensive. It was pretty clear to the objective observer that Smart Parts was building up their value for a sell-off (rumor was a major sporting goods manufacturer that was looking to get into the sport).

Finally, they found the limit in a very real well.....their customer base just couldn't afford it anymore. Today, Smart Parts is gone. Players that used to buy Smart Parts guns started buying Dye guns (Mostly in the Proto line) or the newer competitor, Planet Eclipse (who is eating everyone's lunch now).

I enjoy what Games Workshop has made, but I won't make excuses for their business practices. They are blowing up a bubble and eventually, it will pop.

Is this another one of those threads for Dakkadakka to show how Tsundere it is for 40k?

Points for using Tsundere correct-ish.

paulyf wrote:
This is in response to all the posts about how bad games workshop is. You know the ones "the hh books suck" ,"such and such a writer has ruined everything", "the prices suck and I am never playing again", "this codex is the so bad I am incapable of building an army to beat it so the whole system is broken"
Well I like games workshop. The background for both warhammer and 40k is fanrastic, giving us players plenty to discuss, build our own story lines around and smack talk about.
6th edition rocks. The introduction of fliers is a breath of fresh air in a system that had undergone several revisions without any major changes. I do understand that some people don't like change but I like the challenge.
Tau rock, don't have the army myself but I like the new direction. They are meant to be the fastest technological growing species and this codex shows it. Thingy magigy from the eldar once said they will one day eclipse even the eldars greatest triumphs.
The models are awesome.
A tactical marine costs you what? £2.50? A Lego person costs £2. Know what I prefer.

It is a fun hobby. I've been playing this game and plenty of others from GW for a long time indeed. The prices *have* gotten ludicrous, though so I have stopped buying anything direct from GW. Still pick up old metal blisters I find here and there without guilt, though as they are long paid out to GW. I won't actually stop *playing* though. I've never bought into the "this codex is unbeatable" BS that others peddle, or the concept of all but a couple units in a codex being completely useless that others throw around. I also couldn't care less about Matt Ward, or whomever people rage hate on this week. I think GW's constant price rises are eventually going to kill the game, but again I can still keep playing even if that happens. I haven't been able to convince a friend to start up this game in years due to costs and it will just continue to get that much harder to do so as prices continue to rise.

I have a long standing issue with GW's inability to improve and enhance its games in a way that doesn't involve changing basic tenets of the game in every new edition only to change them back the next time, but I work around it. I also dislike GW adding game changing dynamics with flyers without doing even a basic level of FAQing to bring all forces equally into the dynamic as they stand until they get a codex update. Linked to that was the long waits until armies got codex updates despite that lack of up front preparation for the dynamics shift. It just left lots of people playing catch. That said I don't *hate* GW. I just can't be bothered to expend that kind of energy on a company that makes miniatures and table top games. If you feel rage over a hobby then it is definitely time to find a new hobby because this one isn't fulfilling the requirements of a hobby like relaxation, stress reduction and the all important *fun*. Despite any issues or less than perfect (were any of them perfect?) editions of the game, I've still gotten great enjoyment from my 40k hobby through the years from the multitudes of modeling projects, tons of actual games and even painting sometimes.

I also do not play Tau, but also really like the new Tau codex because they FINALLY play like they have been described from the get go. Before they were called a shooty army that was not very good in close combat, that also really wasn't all that great in shooting either. Now they really ARE a shooty army that is not very good in close combat.

The simple fact here is that "haters gonna hate" and you can't stop them from doing so. All you can do is go out and enjoy your hobby the way you like and not worry about the haters too much.

Skriker

The hobby is fun, but most resentment you encounter now is a result of GW having some sort of direction they would like to take the game that isn't exactly matching up with their player base.

To some of us it seems they are often making strangely contradictory moves or flip-flopping on their intent:
* Changing most GW stores to the 1-man format which results in much more limited hours and availability for sales opportunities and higher instances of loss via theft.
* Adding allies back into the core rules while eliminating cross-codex synergy(CSM and Demons as a prime example).
* Eliminating supplemental codices, then year later re-introducing them.
* Changing White Dwarf into a sales catalog.
* Making 40k and Fantasy more and more alike
* Continued raising of prices of basic necessities to play by increasing 'quality'. Codices don't need hardcovers, it makes them even harder to use and it makes them more expensive. New players are less likely to start playing the more the basics cost.
* Finecast
* Limiting the attendance of Gameday
* Eliminating outside vendors at Gamesday
* GW no longer running tournaments

So there may be great reasons for some of these things, but to all of us on the outside, it doesn't add up. We don't have to like GW, but 40k is one of those games you can take just about anywhere and get a game in. Most other game systems seem to have pockets of followers but it doesn't travel well so your investment of time and money may be wasted should you ever move to a new area if you can't find anyone to game with.