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I'm happy with the release of supplements and that FW appears to be more mainstream.

Not much complaints over here.

GW pricing really blows for one reason. None of my friends will get into it. They think it sounds awesome, then they laugh when they see the prices.

Thanks GW -_-

paulyf wrote:

 painface98 wrote:
i have been a 40K lurker for a while. I really want to get into the hobby but my budget has no room for it at the moment. Plus there is no place with 100+ miles to play it around here. But I can dream lol

Feel for you dude.

at least you haven't dropped...oh 3 or 4 hundred bucks on an awesome (in my mind) chaos army, only to have the only two players you know move to college after 2 games ever

granted, i still love my army

and joe, my first painted model ever *nostalgia*

paulyf wrote:
This is in response to all the posts about how bad games workshop is. You know the ones

"the hh books suck"

I understand having opinions is a bad thing, and we should all follow the same mindset.

"such and such a writer has ruined everything"

Opinions are greater aren't they?

"the prices suck and I am never playing again"

I don't see how this is your problem.... Why do you care?

"this codex is the so bad I am incapable of building an army to beat it so the whole system is broken"

Never heard the entire system is broken because one codex doesn't play well.

Well I like games workshop. The background for both warhammer and 40k is fanrastic, giving us players plenty to discuss, build our own story lines around and smack talk about.
6th edition rocks. The introduction of fliers is a breath of fresh air in a system that had undergone several revisions without any major changes. I do understand that some people don't like change but I like the challenge.
This is all opinion. You know that other people are allowed to have opinions, right?

Tau rock, don't have the army myself but I like the new direction. They are meant to be the fastest technological growing species and this codex shows it. Thingy magigy from the eldar once said they will one day eclipse even the eldars greatest triumphs.
The models are awesome.
A tactical marine costs you what? £2.50? A Lego person costs £2. Know what I prefer.

No mate, the Lego miniature game has way more balanced rules than GW. I'm super serious.

So, you started a thread about the bad nature of 'moaning' (not opinions), by yourself moaning...

I too am enjoying MY hobby.
I quietly play all the games (6) I can afford easily now I stopped buying things from GW plc.

You go enjoy your Hobby and stop moaning about moaning.

And when the GW plc price you out , remember DO NOT MOAN ABOUT IT just pick up a few new game systems if you like , an leave GW behind .

As stated in another thread, I'll always give GW props for releasing the Mordheim rules for free:

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?catId=cat480008a&categoryId=6700006a§ion=&aId=21500021a

or if that link didn't work:

Specialist Games > Mordheim > Mordheim Resources

Also they've released the rules for Inquisitor, Necromunda, and Dark Future. But they aren't Mordheim

wow so many responses to make. I think I will just do a summing up.
Thank you for all your positive replies.
Thank you to all those who critisised my approach and me and I'm sorry if anyone felt I was personally attacking them.
I too have my critisims.
There are reasons why I and you play this game and what I wanted was to create a place where we could say what we liked about it. There are so many posts by players complaining about costs, rules and fluff and many are legit and some are moaning for the sake of moaning.
But I assumed that at least 90% of people with criticisms play the game and would like to tell others why.
If you do play and just want to post on here that I'm wrong or moan about Gw I will put forward the question why have you not ebayed your stuff and found a system to suit you? There are many systems out there that I am sure would suit your needs.

 sing your life wrote:
I really wish PP owned 40k. It would be so much better.

At the rate GW is killing their own hobbies, i wouldnt doubt it if they try to sell a game or the entire company in 10 or so years. I only say that long because people who alreayd have a ton of models are reluctant to quit just because of price habits lol.

If PP got ahold of 40k i would LOVE it if they threw out codexes and brought in their card system for Warmahordes. Its epic. Update a model? Release a new card. New model? New card! Even if they werent free when you buy the model like they are for warmahordes right now i'd love it (say a buck a card or something like that)

 Vineheart01 wrote:

 sing your life wrote:
I really wish PP owned 40k. It would be so much better.

At the rate GW is killing their own hobbies, i wouldnt doubt it if they try to sell a game or the entire company in 10 or so years. I only say that long because people who alreayd have a ton of models are reluctant to quit just because of price habits lol.

If PP got ahold of 40k i would LOVE it if they threw out codexes and brought in their card system for Warmahordes. Its epic. Update a model? Release a new card. New model? New card! Even if they werent free when you buy the model like they are for warmahordes right now i'd love it (say a buck a card or something like that)

hmm... I dunno. Apart from their business ethic, GW are a good quality company. Their designers, painters and modelers are top notch, and if they didn't move to PP as well as the rest of the company, I'd probably be reluctant to continue the hobby. Warmachine and Hordes is fantastic, but the models aren't that great to me and I fear that PP would change the 40k system too much.

If PP got ahold of 40k i would LOVE it if they threw out codexes and brought in their card system for Warmahordes. Its epic. Update a model? Release a new card. New model? New card! Even if they werent free when you buy the model like they are for warmahordes right now i'd love it (say a buck a card or something like that)

the card system is kind of a unofficialy there . Because of all the , hull points, orders, psychic powers , chaos powers , boons everyone is rolling on all the time , most people here have cards for each of their units and they just write it on the cards and remove what they wrote after the game.

I'm ok with GW too. I've never played a game of any variety that was perfect. If there wasn't so much incredible depth and complexity in 40k, it would have fewer flaws. In all honesty though, in game play, I've never felt anything was particularly badly 'broken'. Awkward at worst. So much comparison is made between 40k and other systems, but it's rarely a reasonable one. Few games even come close to the scope of 40k.

I also love the fluff, even if some books fall closer to being guilty pleasure, and agree with what so many say. For the most part, I can't imagine wanting things any other way. Maybe less stagnant to a point, and Squats.

I don't even have too much of a problem with pricing, despite a low budget. I've paid $40 for a scale model I'll never do anything with other than gaze at it. $20-$30 at a discounter gets me a tank with many decorative and load out options with many game uses. The pricing really isn't all that different from scale modeling. It becomes a better deal entirely when you factor in the customization abilities of the models, and the fact they will continue to be actively enjoyed long after they're built. Fincast is the exception as the quality is abysmal at any price. Even without comparison to other companies.

People like to moan, and I've noticed at least in my area and experience, that it's almost exclusively online. It's all about perspective. Sure we buy a lot of models, but that's our choice when we start. We know that's the way. Compared to other major modeling companies, GW is a hell of a deal. The sheer scale of the universe, and quality of it and the models is on its own level.

paulyf wrote:
wow so many responses to make. I think I will just do a summing up.
Thank you for all your positive replies.
Thank you to all those who critisised my approach and me and I'm sorry if anyone felt I was personally attacking them.
I too have my critisims.
There are reasons why I and you play this game and what I wanted was to create a place where we could say what we liked about it. There are so many posts by players complaining about costs, rules and fluff and many are legit and some are moaning for the sake of moaning.
But I assumed that at least 90% of people with criticisms play the game and would like to tell others why.
If you do play and just want to post on here that I'm wrong or moan about Gw I will put forward the question why have you not ebayed your stuff and found a system to suit you? There are many systems out there that I am sure would suit your needs.

Oh I know how you feel. I am reading this all over DakkaDakka and other sites. It gets tiring. Thing is we have to
learn how to ignore them other wise we will just go insane. The thing you have to remember is 2 things. Alot of
the internet is the loudest minority. Most people who love 40K and what not are usually the quiet ones and don't
voice their opinions as loudly as the people who are displeased.

Second is, Games Workshop is not made for most of us in todays age. We are not GW demographic. If they get
sales from us it's just gravy for them. It is like going into a Lamborghini lot. You tell them their cars are too much
and we can't afford them, we most likely can be laughed out of the lot.

It's sad we use to be GW main customers, but not anymore. GW customer base is totally different now and they really
don't care if we shop or not.

Nice to see a thread that at least started positive.

One of the reasons I've been happy with cost of GW products is they are made in the UK*, this alone pushes the cost up, minimum wage, taxes etc etc

A lot of the time companies costs they are compared to out source there production to China, you'll always pay more for a british made product.

I recently got back into the hobby and my biggest suprise was how much the fluff has moved on, the black library is fantastic and commands as much of my hard earned as the gaming!

Not sure if the ones in the US or AUS are made in country or shipped out.

ids1984 wrote:
Nice to see a thread that at least started positive.

One of the reasons I've been happy with cost of GW products is they are made in the UK*, this alone pushes the cost up, minimum wage, taxes etc etc

A lot of the time companies costs they are compared to out source there production to China, you'll always pay more for a british made product.

It's funny how few people care about this, but I whole-heartedly agree. Go to Nottingham, where there's massive unemployment, and you realise what a big deal GW is. But it seems many people here would rather their toys were out-sourced to a undemocratic, exploitative regime, if it means they're cheaper. (Yes, GW books , cases and some other items are made in China, but they're still unusual in terms of their 1st world production).

Meanwhile, they spout on about how evil Tom Kirby is, as if owning shares in the company you run is morally worse than, say, organ-harvesting from opponents of your regime.

Anyway, factoring in how long it's taking us to paint up an orc green tide, I'd say we get a hell of a lot of entertainment for the money we've spent. Yes, it's always possible their prices will reach a tipping point, but as a company they've provided a lot of entertainment to a lot of people, as well as keeping workers employed, so they're firmly on the side of good, however nuanced the judgement might have to be.

i've never understood why people feel the need to throw negativity into peoples' face. We should have two forums, one where people post about how crappy and expensive gw is, one where people discuss the setting and gameplay.

I like 40k too. Not because of the game. No, I prefer Warmachine/Bolt Action as games, I just enjoy it as a setting. I also love the models as expensive as they are.

That said, Games Workshop is a company with business practices that I think are just plain greedy. Are they evil? No, they are human beings like the rest of us and they want to make money.

xruslanx wrote:
i've never understood why people feel the need to throw negativity into peoples' face. We should have two forums, one where people post about how crappy and expensive gw is, one where people discuss the setting and gameplay.

You know you can ignore users right? I mean, you don't have to read or respond to threads that you don't really agree with, you could maybe even make a decent counter argument.

Wait, I know, let's just call them neckbeards and insult them! IT'S THE PERFECT PLAN.

 Imposter101 wrote:

xruslanx wrote:
i've never understood why people feel the need to throw negativity into peoples' face. We should have two forums, one where people post about how crappy and expensive gw is, one where people discuss the setting and gameplay.

You know you can ignore users right? I mean, you don't have to read or respond to threads that you don't really agree with, you could maybe even make a decent counter argument.

Wait, I know, let's just call them neckbeards and insult them! IT'S THE PERFECT PLAN.

hope we aren't forgetting Dakka's #1 rule, are we?

In response to your first post Imposter, I don't think he's trying to shun people for having an opinion, he just doesn't like the idea of people moaning about it on forums. I agree. If they have a problem, then don't play the game. No one is forcing you.

General Annoyance wrote:

 Imposter101 wrote:

xruslanx wrote:
i've never understood why people feel the need to throw negativity into peoples' face. We should have two forums, one where people post about how crappy and expensive gw is, one where people discuss the setting and gameplay.

You know you can ignore users right? I mean, you don't have to read or respond to threads that you don't really agree with, you could maybe even make a decent counter argument.

Wait, I know, let's just call them neckbeards and insult them! IT'S THE PERFECT PLAN.

hope we aren't forgetting Dakka's #1 rule, are we?

I don't think he's trying to shun people for having an opinion, he just doesn't like the idea of people moaning about it on forums. I agree. If they have a problem, then don't play the game. No one is forcing you.

If you don't like the opinion, on the forum, then don't read it. No one is forcing you. There's that nifty ignore button for the job. It's the same as the "don't play it" logic (or everything's fine logic) so why don't they follow it? Wouldn't it be simple to just ignore what you see as moaning and be positive while posting? This is an internet forum, and it's perfectly okay to make criticisms against GW? Don't like it? Don't read it? Just like "Don't like it? Don't play it/buy it".

But if they don't like it, why are they still posting on the 40k forums?

frankly I don't mind - everyone's going to disagree, but at least try and keep it more positive and polite over aggressive and sarcastic.

 Imposter101 wrote:

Wait, I know, let's just call them neckbeards and insult them! IT'S THE PERFECT PLAN.

Way to go - get two bangs for your buck. Complain about GW, then complain that people are calling you neckbeards (even tho that seems to be strictly in your imagination). It's the perfect plan!

Hivefleet Oblivion wrote:

 Imposter101 wrote:

Wait, I know, let's just call them neckbeards and insult them! IT'S THE PERFECT PLAN.

Way to go - get two bangs for your buck. Complain about GW, then complain that people are calling you neckbeards (even tho that seems to be strictly in your imagination). It's the perfect plan!

Have an exalt for Counter Sarcasm

General Annoyance wrote:
But if they don't like it, why are they still posting on the 40k forums?

frankly I don't mind - everyone's going to disagree, but at least try and keep it more positive and polite over aggressive and sarcastic.

This isn't just dedicated to 40k, you know that right?

But there's this thing. It's called constructive criticism. People aren't doing this for the sake of being negative or angry, it's because they believe that they can provide input that can improve something that they see as in a poor state.

 Imposter101 wrote:

General Annoyance wrote:
But if they don't like it, why are they still posting on the 40k forums?

frankly I don't mind - everyone's going to disagree, but at least try and keep it more positive and polite over aggressive and sarcastic.

This isn't just dedicated to 40k, you know that right?

But there's this thing. It's called constructive criticism. People aren't doing this for the sake of being negative or angry, it's because they believe that they can provide input that can improve something that they see as in a poor state.

actually I'm pretty sure it says "40k General Discussions". I was talking about 40k forums, not the entire Dakka site. And being aggressive is definitely a weird way to put across constructive criticism. If you believe his argument is in a poor state, say "I don't believe your argument is valid..." before following up with your reasons why. Sarcasm, big red text and bluntness is not the way to go around helping someone out.

 AtoMaki wrote:

Da krimson barun wrote:

paulyf wrote:
This is in response to all the posts about how bad games workshop is. You know the ones "the hh books suck" ,"such and such a writer has ruined everything", "the prices suck and I am never playing again", "this codex is the so bad I am incapableof building an army to beat it so the whole system is broken"
Well I like games workshop. The background for both warhammer and 40k is fanrastic, giving us players plenty to discuss, build our own story lines around and smack talk about.
6th edition rocks. The introduction of fliers is a breath of fresh air in a system that had undergone several revisions without any major changes. I do understand that some people don't like change but I like the challenge.
Tau rock, don't have the army myself but I like the new direction. They are meant to be the fastest technological growing species and this codex shows it. Thingy magigy from the eldar once said they will one day eclipse even the eldars greatest triumphs.
The models are awesome.
A tactical marine costs you what? £2.50? A Lego person costs £2. Know what I prefer.

Sit through the tau shooting phase then tell me how great they are.

Tau vs Tau games tend to be hilariously epic. IfyouknowwhatImean.

Whoever gets first turn wins xD

General Annoyance wrote:

 Imposter101 wrote:

General Annoyance wrote:
But if they don't like it, why are they still posting on the 40k forums?

frankly I don't mind - everyone's going to disagree, but at least try and keep it more positive and polite over aggressive and sarcastic.

This isn't just dedicated to 40k, you know that right?

But there's this thing. It's called constructive criticism. People aren't doing this for the sake of being negative or angry, it's because they believe that they can provide input that can improve something that they see as in a poor state.

actually I'm pretty sure it says "40k General Discussions". I was talking about 40k forums, not the entire Dakka site. And being aggressive is definitely a weird way to put across constructive criticism. If you believe his argument is in a poor state, say "I don't believe your argument is valid..." before following up with your reasons why. Sarcasm, big red text and bluntness is not the way to go around helping someone out.

Big red text? It's the same size and font as the normal text. It's noting the problems and discrepancies in the post, and I believe it's quite effective. Though I do believe it could have been a longer argument.

General Annoyance wrote:
But if they don't like it, why are they still posting on the 40k forums?

You know, it is possible to like a product or service, and dislike the behavior of the person(s) or company that provides it.

In fact, I think you're just flat out wrong. People complain because they like the game, and are frustrated when they see it move in a direction that reduces their ability to have fun with it. If you've never seen this happen, then good for you; you're lucky to have never been negatively impacted by regular price increases, vaguely written rules, or needing to skip a new release because you find the models ugly. Not everyone has had such a rosy experience. Some people think differently from you, and see 40k sometimes moving away from the game they've already heaviliy invested in.

I see 40k as a game with a huge amount of potential. But I also see that potential being wasted when the community is stratified by labels such as "WAAC" and "HAAC" and everything in between. Sure, the game is pretty fun now, and most of the time I enjoy my games heartily. But this takes some effort on my part to find people I enjoy playing against and who share my outlook on conflict resolution and rules interpretations. And as flexible as I am, I still cannot always expect pick-up games to be sunshine and rainbows. Sure, there are times when you'll encounter someone who you wouldn't want to interact with in any setting, but other times you will encounter someone whose perspective is simply different from yours (players often lump these together as TFG, which is a shame). If the game were living up to its full potential instead of just being an engine to sell bigger and bigger plastic toys, we could have the best of both worlds. There would be far less of a difference between a casual player and a competitive player, and I think the expectation for how the game should play would move a little closer to the middle.

Of course, my opinion on how to get the most out of that potential is different from yours; indeed some of you seem to think that we're already there, which I vehemently disagree with. But that's why we're all on these forums - to discuss and debate points such as these. Getting up on a pedestal and shouting "I'M SATISFIED SO STOP BEING DISSATISFIED" is about as helpful as running into a hospital full of depressed people and shouting "I'M HAPPY SO STOP BEING UNHAPPY." It doesn't move the discussion forward at all.

I couldn't help but think that the OP is a Cron + SM player =/

To which my brain immediately conjured ;

"I love GW!" - Yours truly, SM + Cron player <3

But I digress on silliness, the game has a lot of flaws, updates takes years on matters that should only take weeks and the models cost an arm and a leg for materials that literally cost 1/10 of the cost per mold ..

Xca iber (can't include the line in the middle) - you do have a point here. But while debate is what makes this site entirely, I do not believe that everyone who posts goes about it in an effective manner. Some people simply do not convey their point in any way other than "I hate GW". If these complaint threads were more like "I am discontent about GW because..." then it might be a more plausible and debatable argument. Like I said earlier, I don't expect everyone to agree - we all have our digs about something (nobody really likes GW pricing, for instance). But what I would expect is for someone to formulate their argument in more detail. This is the internet after all - you don't know anybody who posts in reply to your comments, so, like it or not, I believe you have to make an impression so that you are not compared to a short minded person and taken more seriously (something I know about all too well... )

EDIT - Imposter101 - apologies for not looking at the scale of the text properly... I fear for my eyesight...

A lot of this has been geared towards the op, and gw prices.
as well as the analysis of opinions. I think we can all agree that each of us is more or a less a human being, and has a right to express an opinion, however much each of us agrees or disagrees.... that being said: what was the point of all this?
Re-reading the start of the thread showed me 1. The op doesn't like haters
2. The op likes games workshop

That's it.

Good. Lots of people like games workshop. Some for the games, the models, the setting.
Others don't. Some people see flaw in the models, the games, the background. Some people don't really care.

So again I ask, what exactly was the purpose of this?