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The Abyssal Crusade

Draigo's adventures in the warp.

*ducks*

I'd like to hear more about the Carcharodons and their engagements.They must've fought some pretty cool stuff outside the Imperium's borders.

Living Saints and how that works.
Where the flying feth Leman Russ is? Or for that matter where Vulkan, or The Khan are.
The Current state of the Emperor.
Dimensions of Comarragh.
How screwed up the space pansies were before the fall.
What Magnus is doing at this very moment.............all according to keikaku.
What Alpharius has cooking up, and what he's been doing.
How Sisters armor is as effective as Marine armor despite being like 4 inches thinner. TROLOLOL
What flavor of wine Tzeentch is enjoying due to the fall of Orpheus.
Just to start off.

TheSaintofKilllers wrote:How Sisters armor is as effective as Marine armor despite being like 4 inches thinner. TROLOLOL

TWIST: The plating of Marine armour actually is only an inch thick. Codex fluff.

TheSGC wrote:
If this genre was as great as you seem to think it was, it'd have been done in 40k before

Argumentum ad antiquitatem makes for a poor argument.

It's a logical fallacy. Also it's extremely lazy. That's not going to work.

 Lynata wrote:

TheSaintofKilllers wrote:How Sisters armor is as effective as Marine armor despite being like 4 inches thinner. TROLOLOL

TWIST: The plating of Marine armour actually is only an inch thick. Codex fluff.

Seriously.........
They're like 7'6 on average and a little over half that wide at the shoulder, you'd expect their skin to be nearly that thick with all the modifications.
How thick is sisters armor then?

The Hrud. They seem to be a major threat and are way freaky, but we might never see them on the tabletop. So gimme some fluff on them.

I'd like some more info on the newcrons, actually. Right now there's only the codex, which is a bit meager and invites the Tomb Kings in space notion. I feel they give of a nice "oldschool" alien/sci-fi vibe imo, with deathrays, invasion rays, UFOs and doomsday devices. They could be the villains of a terrible 1950s horror movie and I like that.

Other than that, I'm satisfied, the RPGs did a fine job fleshing out rogue traders, inquistion, arbites, ecclesiarchy and ad-mech to me.

 Lynata wrote:

jediknight129 wrote:theres a lot of vahallan stuff in the Cain books, little culture based references.

Given how Mitchell dealt with the Schola Progenium, I'd rather have GW's own authors flesh out Valhalla anyways.

Personal bias, obviously, but I grew up with the core studio books, so that's where I'm feeling most at home. Picking up a Black Library novel I always run a risk of seeing something that just doesn't fit into the stuff I read in a Codex etc.

jediknight129 wrote:hell I want a schola series one day where you follow a dorm's worth of kids through intake onwards see the split into Commisariat, Sister, Stormtrooper with finally rules for scrumball explained.

... exactly the kind of contradictions I mean...

(although something like that could indeed make for a good story ... nowadays, when thinking of the Schola Progenium, I always remember the movie Before the Fall)

the thing is all 40k books are different worlds different sectors there could be different systems everywhere for the Schola's one sector starting with a joint intake another segregated. plus going back to Old Old Old school background 3rd ed rulebook actually stated "everything you read withing the 40k universe has a bias, is propaganda" back when the books were trying to be artifacts and immerse you in the game world and fit into the world. so nothing we read is necessarily true it is all propaganda or hazy memories or even outright lies.

TheSaintofKilllers wrote:Seriously......... They're like 7'6 on average and a little over half that wide at the shoulder, you'd expect their skin to be nearly that thick with all the modifications.

7 feet on average, if we go by GW's fluff descriptions and Jes Goodwin's lifesize drawing.
And like Jes Goodwin said in an interview, I don't see a need to make them any bigger.
Feel free to do so for your interpretation of the setting, however - I do know that various licensed products attribute a larger body size to them, specifically certain novels.

And no, *I* wouldn't expect their skin to be that thick, simply because nothing in the rather extensive Index Astartes article on the creation process hints at this. What makes them tougher is below the skin - reinforced ribcage, etc .. but surely you've heard all that before.

TheSaintofKilllers wrote:How thick is sisters armor then?

I don't think this has ever been stated in GW's background material, but since Codex fluff mentions an equal armour protection, I would suggest a similar thickness. It's just the most obvious option. There are certainly alternatives, such as superior materials resulting in a thinner plating to equal effect, but I tend to prefer applying Occam's Razor in such theories.

Also keep in mind that Marine armour does not only consist of armoured plating and electrically motivated fibres, though. The real difference to the Sisters' version is the advanced onboard medical suite including life monitors and drug dispensers, superior strength enhancement, waste recyclers, and more. The Sororitas' version is a "bare bones" variant focused entirely on combat protection, whereas the Astartes model comes with a ton of gadgets that might prove useful in special circumstances, just to give them any edge possible. The Space Marines are, after all, the Imperium's most concentrated firebase in a single square meter; you ought to give them anything that could be remotely useful.

jediknight129 wrote:the thing is all 40k books are different worlds different sectors there could be different systems everywhere for the Schola's one sector starting with a joint intake another segregated.

Not when the original material clearly presented the situation as a uniform condition and enforced decree, especially when it came in reaction to a historical event. Whilst a lot of things in 40k can be excused as local deviation, this cop-out can not be applied to everything. When one source says the Ultramarines have blue armour, for example, and the next book describes them as wearing red, then this is simply an inconsistency.

It is certainly true that there is no "wrong" here, however, which is why I've merely pointed out contradictions. In essence, we get to cherrypick what we like and thus form our own idea of the setting, just like Gav Thorpe said it on his blog. Personally, I just like GW's take on the world more than Mitchell's, as it is more grim and preserves the Adepta Sororitas as a more unique and professional force. I simply appreciate neither the treatment the author has given the Sisterhood, nor the very idea of inserting satire into 40k - at least not in the form of a Commissar, of all the options he could have picked... This is about similar as making a cartoon about an SS officer. There's nothing wrong with applying a certain sense of humour to the setting, as products such as the Kal Jerico comics or Deff Skwadron have shown, but surely this must be possible without twisting and distorting those factions and organisations that represent all the inhumanity and the cruelty of the Imperial regime? What's next, a love story with a Space Marine?

... bah, I'm starting to ramble again.

The life and times of a Techmarine?

It is like a story of Scotty, MacGyver and Terminator all rolled into one.

I could see this:
- Initial training and "Upgrades" becoming a Techmarine.

- Wade through Orks with a few servitors because he will will NOT let them corrupt that Predator's chassis.

- Ask one more time how a Gretchen got stuck inside the slide of a bolter.

- Explain that it is better to get a tactical brother to open the field rations than to use a lightening claw no matter how careful.

- Explain that using a thunder hammer even when turned off is not helpful "percussive maintenance" for a Rhino that will not start.

- Various reminders to self not to vocalize thoughts like "That Razorback needs to be destroyed not fixed" around plasma servitors.

- How to keep from squishing Mars priests when they are teaching you their craft and treating you like you are hard of hearing.

- When asked to "fix" power armor and the occupant had not removed it for months and never bothered to clean it. Then a description of various "upgrades" applied to that suit.

- The "interesting" times spent with Apothecaries when installing a new "volunteer" into a dreadnaught.

- The fine joys of ship and vehicle maintenance.

- Various penalties applied to brothers that did not take appropriate care of their wargear.

Another list that could be endless...

I'd like some solid information about the extent to which other Alien Races exist in the 40k universe, as well as the number of worlds within and without imperial control.

Well, not even GW has those kinds of hard numbers. We know that the Imperium is (more or less) a million inhabited worlds. There's lots more worlds in the galaxy than that.

We also know that the Imperium exists on what are basically stable "trade routes" through the Warp that link its various million worlds together. This means that, even if you have 1000 worlds in a given sub-sector of space, there could be 5000 worlds in that same sub-sector that Humanity has never visited or even seen, simply because no stable Warp route has been discovered to get to these worlds. These worlds could be non-Imperial human worlds, Xenos empires, Eldar Maiden Worlds, Daemon Worlds or who knows what the feth?

More likely than not, they're Ork worlds.

The underground war of Calth. Just finished reading Know no fear and I crave the tale of cavern, tunnel warfare and the stuttering shadows of the combatants ilumminated by gunfire. We march for Calth!

 Psienesis wrote:
Well, not even GW has those kinds of hard numbers. We know that the Imperium is (more or less) a million inhabited worlds. There's lots more worlds in the galaxy than that.

We also know that the Imperium exists on what are basically stable "trade routes" through the Warp that link its various million worlds together. This means that, even if you have 1000 worlds in a given sub-sector of space, there could be 5000 worlds in that same sub-sector that Humanity has never visited or even seen, simply because no stable Warp route has been discovered to get to these worlds. These worlds could be non-Imperial human worlds, Xenos empires, Eldar Maiden Worlds, Daemon Worlds or who knows what the feth?

Imperium has 1 million worlds, but there are 300 billion stars in the galaxy. Nevermind planets. Imperium isn't even a pinprick. There could be an entire gigantic galactic civilization of humans 10 times larger that exists and neither side could be aware of the other. Keep in mind that most big-name sci-fi franchises (Star Wars and Star Trek) have their galactic setting much more limited: only a small part of the galaxy is named/explored and has the setting take place with in it. 40k goes all out and has most of the entire galaxy right there.

So yeah, there's infinite possibilities for what kind of new stuff you could introduce in 40k, in particular I want to see non-Imperial human civilizations. Unfortunately it always comes down to Space Marines.

Of course we'd also have to keep in mind that far from every planetoid in the galaxy will be habitable. Human colonies (or, surprisingly, any world settled by one of the alien species) all have to conform to a certain range in terms of temperature and a rather specific mix of elements in the atmosphere, and ideally resources that actually make it interesting as a colony site, be it simply sufficient fauna/flora to sustain the people or something that makes it worth shipping in supplies.

Under certain conditions, a world may be deemed valuable enough to warrant settlement in spite of conditions hostile to human life (think the Mars colony in Total Recall), but as this would require regular shipments of nutrients and other supplies that could not be created locally, the vastness of space and the nature of how Imperial ships traverse it would likely require an earthlike planet in the same solar system to provide regular and reliable sublight shipments.



As you can see, the Imperium officially lays claim to the entire galaxy, and although its starships have not yet reached all corners of it and are still encountering undiscovered worlds or lost human colonies from the Dark Age of Technology, it controls planets up unto the farthest reaches.

However, I recall reading somewhere (I cannot recall the exact source and it may well have just been a remark in some thread on dakka, so take this with a grain of salt) that "Imperial space" is not exactly a single body but rather a web of interconnected systems, occasionally with large dark patches of uncharted space in-between. It is here that most undiscovered worlds are located, and it is here where countless alien empires still linger, hiding from the Emperor's fleets or plotting humanity's downfall ().

As per the descriptions of Warp travel in GW's Battlefleet Gothic game, travel between individual systems in a given sector is limited heavily by the availability of "Warp corridors" - tunnels through the Empyrean where the Warp is relatively stable, routes that are deemed safe enough to be navigated by Imperial ships. Needless to say, this would render the above description quite plausible. It also makes it extremely hard to estimate whether or not another alien civilisation, or even all xenos as a whole, can lay claim to as much space as the Imperium of Man. My guess would be no to the former, but probable to the latter. This is mere gut-feeling based on the nature and frequency of the Imperium's encounters with other species, though.

Orks already claim more space than the Imperium as a whole, so I suppose you're excluding them from that assumption?

Less speculation, more evidence:

All human-inhabited space is further broken down into sectors, which are mostly cubes of space roughly 200 light years to a side. Each sector is comprised of a number of sub-sectors ranging from ten to twenty light years in diameter, centred on densely populated star clusters, important worlds, or meeting points of various trade routes through the warp. The areas between sub-sectors and sectors - unexplored or uninhabited regions, alien empires, areas inaccessible by the warp etc, - are known as wilderness space or wilderness zones and make up a far greater proportion of the galaxy than that controlled by Humanity.

p. 86, Battlefleet Gothic rulebook

The Imperium is not a continuous whole throughout the areas it claims, but is instead a collection of oases of human settlement separated by areas that are either uninhabited or unknown or under the control of aliens or non-Imperial humans. The claim the Imperium controls the entire galaxy is propaganda and ideology, rather than literal fact. Entire alien empires can exist in the spaces between Imperial sectors.

That must be what I remembered. Thanks for adding the quote!

Melissia wrote:Orks already claim more space than the Imperium as a whole, so I suppose you're excluding them from that assumption?

No, I've just never seen a statement like that.
Was that in the rulebook or one of the Ork codices?

 Harriticus wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
Well, not even GW has those kinds of hard numbers. We know that the Imperium is (more or less) a million inhabited worlds. There's lots more worlds in the galaxy than that.

We also know that the Imperium exists on what are basically stable "trade routes" through the Warp that link its various million worlds together. This means that, even if you have 1000 worlds in a given sub-sector of space, there could be 5000 worlds in that same sub-sector that Humanity has never visited or even seen, simply because no stable Warp route has been discovered to get to these worlds. These worlds could be non-Imperial human worlds, Xenos empires, Eldar Maiden Worlds, Daemon Worlds or who knows what the feth?

Imperium has 1 million worlds, but there are 300 billion stars in the galaxy. Nevermind planets. Imperium isn't even a pinprick. There could be an entire gigantic galactic civilization of humans 10 times larger that exists and neither side could be aware of the other. Keep in mind that most big-name sci-fi franchises (Star Wars and Star Trek) have their galactic setting much more limited: only a small part of the galaxy is named/explored and has the setting take place with in it. 40k goes all out and has most of the entire galaxy right there.

So yeah, there's infinite possibilities for what kind of new stuff you could introduce in 40k, in particular I want to see non-Imperial human civilizations. Unfortunately it always comes down to Space Marines.

I had to look it up because i thought Star Wars played on in the whole galaxy, but it actually happens in A galaxy, not ours.BUT they are the same size.

 Lynata wrote:
Was that in the rulebook or one of the Ork codices?

Here: (spoilered, large image)

Ork domains are at least as large as the Imperium, if not larger.

Indeed, the only place where there aren't a great number of Orks is around the Eye of Terror.

KhornedBeef wrote:

 Harriticus wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
Well, not even GW has those kinds of hard numbers. We know that the Imperium is (more or less) a million inhabited worlds. There's lots more worlds in the galaxy than that.

We also know that the Imperium exists on what are basically stable "trade routes" through the Warp that link its various million worlds together. This means that, even if you have 1000 worlds in a given sub-sector of space, there could be 5000 worlds in that same sub-sector that Humanity has never visited or even seen, simply because no stable Warp route has been discovered to get to these worlds. These worlds could be non-Imperial human worlds, Xenos empires, Eldar Maiden Worlds, Daemon Worlds or who knows what the feth?

Imperium has 1 million worlds, but there are 300 billion stars in the galaxy. Nevermind planets. Imperium isn't even a pinprick. There could be an entire gigantic galactic civilization of humans 10 times larger that exists and neither side could be aware of the other. Keep in mind that most big-name sci-fi franchises (Star Wars and Star Trek) have their galactic setting much more limited: only a small part of the galaxy is named/explored and has the setting take place with in it. 40k goes all out and has most of the entire galaxy right there.

So yeah, there's infinite possibilities for what kind of new stuff you could introduce in 40k, in particular I want to see non-Imperial human civilizations. Unfortunately it always comes down to Space Marines.

I had to look it up because i thought Star Wars played on in the whole galaxy, but it actually happens in A galaxy, not ours.BUT they are the same size.

It does take place in one galaxy, but Star Wars utilizes the scale of it's setting pretty atrociously.

"It does take place in one galaxy, but Star Wars utilizes the scale of it's setting pretty atrociously."

Or rather, not at all. It's straight up fantasy with a few sci-fi tropes thrown in.

So, kind of like 40k.

I don't really see how either Warhammer or Star Wars have a problem with utilising the scale of their various settings, though.

 Kain wrote:

KhornedBeef wrote:

 Harriticus wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
Well, not even GW has those kinds of hard numbers. We know that the Imperium is (more or less) a million inhabited worlds. There's lots more worlds in the galaxy than that.

We also know that the Imperium exists on what are basically stable "trade routes" through the Warp that link its various million worlds together. This means that, even if you have 1000 worlds in a given sub-sector of space, there could be 5000 worlds in that same sub-sector that Humanity has never visited or even seen, simply because no stable Warp route has been discovered to get to these worlds. These worlds could be non-Imperial human worlds, Xenos empires, Eldar Maiden Worlds, Daemon Worlds or who knows what the feth?

Imperium has 1 million worlds, but there are 300 billion stars in the galaxy. Nevermind planets. Imperium isn't even a pinprick. There could be an entire gigantic galactic civilization of humans 10 times larger that exists and neither side could be aware of the other. Keep in mind that most big-name sci-fi franchises (Star Wars and Star Trek) have their galactic setting much more limited: only a small part of the galaxy is named/explored and has the setting take place with in it. 40k goes all out and has most of the entire galaxy right there.

So yeah, there's infinite possibilities for what kind of new stuff you could introduce in 40k, in particular I want to see non-Imperial human civilizations. Unfortunately it always comes down to Space Marines.

I had to look it up because i thought Star Wars played on in the whole galaxy, but it actually happens in A galaxy, not ours.BUT they are the same size.

It does take place in one galaxy, but Star Wars utilizes the scale of it's setting pretty atrociously.

If you look at a map of the galaxy in Star Wars you'll find almost half of it is entirely undocumented and none of the worlds/events take place in it

 Harriticus wrote:

 Kain wrote:

KhornedBeef wrote:

 Harriticus wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
Well, not even GW has those kinds of hard numbers. We know that the Imperium is (more or less) a million inhabited worlds. There's lots more worlds in the galaxy than that.

We also know that the Imperium exists on what are basically stable "trade routes" through the Warp that link its various million worlds together. This means that, even if you have 1000 worlds in a given sub-sector of space, there could be 5000 worlds in that same sub-sector that Humanity has never visited or even seen, simply because no stable Warp route has been discovered to get to these worlds. These worlds could be non-Imperial human worlds, Xenos empires, Eldar Maiden Worlds, Daemon Worlds or who knows what the feth?

Imperium has 1 million worlds, but there are 300 billion stars in the galaxy. Nevermind planets. Imperium isn't even a pinprick. There could be an entire gigantic galactic civilization of humans 10 times larger that exists and neither side could be aware of the other. Keep in mind that most big-name sci-fi franchises (Star Wars and Star Trek) have their galactic setting much more limited: only a small part of the galaxy is named/explored and has the setting take place with in it. 40k goes all out and has most of the entire galaxy right there.

So yeah, there's infinite possibilities for what kind of new stuff you could introduce in 40k, in particular I want to see non-Imperial human civilizations. Unfortunately it always comes down to Space Marines.

I had to look it up because i thought Star Wars played on in the whole galaxy, but it actually happens in A galaxy, not ours.BUT they are the same size.

It does take place in one galaxy, but Star Wars utilizes the scale of it's setting pretty atrociously.

If you look at a map of the galaxy in Star Wars you'll find almost half of it is entirely undocumented and none of the worlds/events take place in it

Spoiler:

All I see is a little blue question mark.

Map of the Star Wars galaxy. I'm not sure what the lot of you are on about.

This is what I was talking about

I'm still very far behind on my 40K universe reading, but some more stories about the Ghoul Stars would be nice. The mystery (to me at least) about what is there and exploring would be pretty nifty, I think. You could even tie it in from several view points to get the different flavors that were mentioned earlier in the thread.