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Actually, the more I read it, the more I notice it says 'any effect that would adversely modify his characteristic profile...' (Emphasis mine). I'm fairly positive taking a wound isn't considered 'an effect' that modifies his stat line; its just taking a wound.

Either way, I'd never let anyone play it that way where they get a 2+/3++/3+++ against anything. When you factor in IWND, well, he literally would not die. It would game-breakingly stupid. Still, funny catch.

Yeah I would never use it. It's just a funny little mistake in the rules.

Horus isn't the strongest primarch, Angron is as he held off a warhound that was trying to step on him. Horus is the greatest overall primarch not because he is the best at any one thing but because he is top two or three at just about everything (psi would be the one thing I'd give him zero for until he gets supercharged). All the others are really good at one or two things and really suck at one or two things.

Angron has no sense of self presvation and his rules reflect that. When he fought Robet Angron should have had him for breakfast but instead Robert knocked big lumps out of him forcing a draw.

Looky Likey wrote:
Horus isn't the strongest primarch, Angron is as he held off a warhound that was trying to step on him. Horus is the greatest overall primarch not because he is the best at any one thing but because he is top two or three at just about everything (psi would be the one thing I'd give him zero for until he gets supercharged). All the others are really good at one or two things and really suck at one or two things.

Angron has no sense of self presvation and his rules reflect that. When he fought Robet Angron should have had him for breakfast but instead Robert knocked big lumps out of him forcing a draw.

You also have to remember that the other primarchs also have done grand things in fluff, Logar defeated the grandest Daemon of Khorne in single combat afterall.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Looky Likey wrote:
Horus isn't the strongest primarch, Angron is as he held off a warhound that was trying to step on him. Horus is the greatest overall primarch not because he is the best at any one thing but because he is top two or three at just about everything (psi would be the one thing I'd give him zero for until he gets supercharged). All the others are really good at one or two things and really suck at one or two things.

Angron has no sense of self presvation and his rules reflect that. When he fought Robet Angron should have had him for breakfast but instead Robert knocked big lumps out of him forcing a draw.

You also have to remember that the other primarchs also have done grand things in fluff, Logar defeated the grandest Daemon of Khorne in single combat afterall.

Yeah, but Chaos gives you cheat codes... dern Fulgrim stabbing RG

 ThePrimordial wrote:

 Vladsimpaler wrote:

 ThePrimordial wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:
...Have you never heard anyone refer to the Salamanders as Sallies or Sally before? Its a fairly common short term for them.

Anyways, I'm not going to get in a fluff discussion with you, as we've already established in several threads the way you interpret the fluff.

I will say that Angron could certainly use a boost. That's it.

Sallies? Never. That's a flat out insult in America and I imagine in Canada. I've heard charmanders a lot due to their skin and dragon themes.
Fluff? Isn't it stated multiple times by everyone in HH that Angron is the strongest martial primarch? He's the cult primarch of Khorne after all.

You what m8?
Sally/Sallies is not a "flat out" insult. Maybe in backwards H-town but never have I heard of that being an insult. I'd recommend not getting so uppity.
Also Angron isn't the best martial primarch; both Sanguinius and Horus are posited to have been the only ones capable of defeating him.

Wasn't there that whole deal about keep Austin weird? I'd keep your mouth shut friend as to geographical affiliation.
Didn't Lorgar say that? the weakest primarch?

Awww I love it when you get angry, it's so adorable. :^)


In other news, I personally think that while RAW it makes sense that Horus gets the 3+ roll versus his save, RAI I doubt that it how it was intended and I tend to use RAI in the games I play with friends.
:edit: Missed Blacksails' comment about the "effect" part. In that case I agree with how he interprets it.

 Vladsimpaler wrote:

 ThePrimordial wrote:

 Vladsimpaler wrote:

 ThePrimordial wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:
...Have you never heard anyone refer to the Salamanders as Sallies or Sally before? Its a fairly common short term for them.

Anyways, I'm not going to get in a fluff discussion with you, as we've already established in several threads the way you interpret the fluff.

I will say that Angron could certainly use a boost. That's it.

Sallies? Never. That's a flat out insult in America and I imagine in Canada. I've heard charmanders a lot due to their skin and dragon themes.
Fluff? Isn't it stated multiple times by everyone in HH that Angron is the strongest martial primarch? He's the cult primarch of Khorne after all.

You what m8?
Sally/Sallies is not a "flat out" insult. Maybe in backwards H-town but never have I heard of that being an insult. I'd recommend not getting so uppity.
Also Angron isn't the best martial primarch; both Sanguinius and Horus are posited to have been the only ones capable of defeating him.

Wasn't there that whole deal about keep Austin weird? I'd keep your mouth shut friend as to geographical affiliation.
Didn't Lorgar say that? the weakest primarch?

Awww I love it when you get angry, it's so adorable. :^)


In other news, I personally think that while RAW it makes sense that Horus gets the 3+ roll versus his save, RAI I doubt that it how it was intended and I tend to use RAI in the games I play with friends.
:edit: Missed Blacksails' comment about the "effect" part. In that case I agree with how he interprets it.

That's angry? I just made a good comeback. I find the thinly veiled butthurt so cute. Cuter than a litter of puppies snuggling with each other in the snow.
RAI I doubt it's meant to be that way, after I had Horus fight the Swarmlord. Horus didn't take a wound. It makes him unkillable.

 ThePrimordial wrote:

RAI I doubt it's meant to be that way, after I had Horus fight the Swarmlord. Horus didn't take a wound. It makes him unkillable.

Sorry, but you actually think he gets an additional 3+ save against any wound after failing his armour or invuln?

 Blacksails wrote:

 ThePrimordial wrote:

RAI I doubt it's meant to be that way, after I had Horus fight the Swarmlord. Horus didn't take a wound. It makes him unkillable.

Sorry, but you actually think he gets an additional 3+ save against any wound after failing his armour or invuln?

I made it clear I don't. But I did testing to see what would happen if it was meant that way. It isn't.

 ThePrimordial wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:

 ThePrimordial wrote:

RAI I doubt it's meant to be that way, after I had Horus fight the Swarmlord. Horus didn't take a wound. It makes him unkillable.

Sorry, but you actually think he gets an additional 3+ save against any wound after failing his armour or invuln?

I made it clear I don't. But I did testing to see what would happen if it was meant that way. It isn't.

Oh okay, good. Yeah, it would be pretty silly to run him like that, but thanks for the validation.

 Blacksails wrote:

 ThePrimordial wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:

 ThePrimordial wrote:

RAI I doubt it's meant to be that way, after I had Horus fight the Swarmlord. Horus didn't take a wound. It makes him unkillable.

Sorry, but you actually think he gets an additional 3+ save against any wound after failing his armour or invuln?

I made it clear I don't. But I did testing to see what would happen if it was meant that way. It isn't.

Oh okay, good. Yeah, it would be pretty silly to run him like that, but thanks for the validation.

Completely OT but the model I'm most excited for other than the primarch minis are the Castellax Battle Automata.
I'm gonna wait to get a squad of 5 second hand off Ebay though.
What's your favorite from the new book?

From Massacre?

I guess I'll go with the Sicaran. I think that tank is sex on tracks.

There are a lot of great models being put out, but I'm only truly excited from when they do all my Sallies.

Oh, and the Ferrus Manus model is easily their best character to date. Mind-bogglingly fantastic.

 Blacksails wrote:
From Massacre?

I guess I'll go with the Sicaran. I think that tank is sex on tracks.

There are a lot of great models being put out, but I'm only truly excited from when they do all my Sallies.

Oh, and the Ferrus Manus model is easily their best character to date. Mind-bogglingly fantastic.

Ferrus Manus is actually better looking than Angron.
Salamanders seem to be the most powerful pre heresy legion with the PyreGuard termies, Vulkan, Dracos, and the Pyroclasts. They're actually pretty competitive.
I don't quite like the Sicaran. I love all the other heresy vehicles though.

My favorite in massacre is either Sevatar (badassery incarnate) or Korea Phaeron. I do like those Ferrus Manus rules A LOT though.

Oh, by the way, the preview on the book on the FW site has the full spread for the Sallies' rules.

Their unique Rite of Battle you can take gives all vehicles a 5++, but disallows any deepstriking, and you have to have as many troops as you do heavy slots.

Yeah, they seem to be pretty strong so far.

Great game today! SoH vs World Eaters me using SoH with Lorgar to test him out. Full wound Angron and Lorgar meet in the middle of the battlefield (now at this point I was losing badly) this is why it was of great relief when Lorgar slaughtered Angron in a challenge. I still lost but Lorgar killed SO many space marines in the end. I was very impressed no matter how fluky it was...

Didnt Lorgar kill Ferrus ?

No fulgrim killed ferrus.

 ThePrimordial wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:
...Have you never heard anyone refer to the Salamanders as Sallies or Sally before? Its a fairly common short term for them.

Anyways, I'm not going to get in a fluff discussion with you, as we've already established in several threads the way you interpret the fluff.

I will say that Angron could certainly use a boost. That's it.

Sallies? Never. That's a flat out insult in America and I imagine in Canada.

I, as a 36 year old American, have no fething clue what you're talking about. Maybe I'm not American enough. I'll remedy that by eating a hamburger and shake in my pick up truck while texting on my phone about all the "danged old foreigners" and flipping off other motorists driving too slow in the fast lane. That ought to do it.

Meanwhile, in the real world, I can't wait to get my hands on this book. I really like all of the stories in book one, and look forward to reading about the pre-HH stuff for the Salamanders and Iron Hands.

I really liked the direction they've gone with the Primarchs so far - all have gotten something, ruleswise, that looks pretty awesomely creative. For example, as someone else mentioned in another thread, Konrad Curze gets Jump Infantry - likely to represent his bounding and leaping about style of hunting. The morale test within 12'' of anyone who loses a combat against him is cool as well...makes you wonder just what he did to them ahah. The fluff in these books is fantastic as well - especially the focus on what legions were used for pre-primarch days, and the effect each had on their legion.

i'm building a 30k army and i get concerned with the eventuality of facing off primarchs as characters like mortarian, vulkan and ferrus are going to be absolute beasts to try and slay. Forming a list is difficult enough and i'm wondering what people are doing to face off these dudes? i'm doing ad mech so im using a warhound to kick mortarian in the testes when the opportunity arises - anyone else have similar plans?

Haven't given as much thought as I should to how to deal with tougher Primarchs...A titan is a viable choice, and one that I've seen people say makes the toughest of Primarchs irrelevant, but the limitations are such that they can't come in at under 3000 points, whereas all the Primarchs are getting in at 2000.

Anyone got any ideas on that one?

i am going to struggle with that at sub 3k. I've got 12 thallax and im waiting for the weapon upgrades to be released before putting 4 of them together. The castellax have S6 AP3 Heavy 3 weapons so limited use against a primarch. I may see if the myrmidons have rotor cannons as a choice and max them out and go for lots of 6's and hope they roll lots of 1's as battle tactic.
i've not seen the full ad mech list but i'm hoping for something nasty and deadly to turn up as a primarch alternative

Anything with a D weapon should make the job easier? Massed poisoned weapons?

Poisoned weapons aren't doing much to Mortarion, but are probably a feasible way of taking out the other Primarchs. Don't think the Ad-Mech has much in the way of that, though...

The Primarches are rock paper scissors though, always going to be one of them that is immune to something.

It's 30K, the time when the myths of the Primarchs were born.

If you want to take out a Primarch, you need to bring your own Primarch, or something D-class. Otherwise, these guys are pretty much going to wreck whatever non-Primarch they get into combat with.

If you want to take out another Primarch take Horus. Seriously I've play tested him and its hilarious how easily he slaughters other primarchs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Anyway enough plasma gun shots will bring down a Primarch.

I've had good success killing Primarchs with Armored Corp Lists. Bagged Fulgrim, Mortarion, and Angron. Haven't faced Horus yet. I did run a baneblade too.

Another update* Angron killed Ferrus in a 1v1 lost 2 wounds and then he killed Vulcan not losing any.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just finished another one and Kurze (who charged) killed Angron.