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Incredibly disappointed.
I of all people could have made some better more creative rules.

Lol, like the Emperor?

 Blacksails wrote:
Yeah, I'm personally leaning towards the pistol giving him an extra attack, but I'm not sure how the two CC weapons as one profile interact with a pistol especially if an extra attack is already granted from the twin CC weapons. Too lazy to read through the relevant section of the rule book.

All it says is, "they give Angron +1 attack (this has already been included in his profile and use the following WEAPON profile". Emphasis mine. To be honest, I think that if they had two different profiles then there would be no argument but given me reading over this again, I'd think he would be fine with an additional attack. Plus then he gets 8 Attacks on the charge for that Khornate number.

The costs might help out a little. Also, Kurze and Vulkan don't have their wounds listed in the leak above either.

For some reason I remember reading in the BOLS comments that Vulkan had 6 and Kurze had 5, however I want to get the book in my hands before I figure that out.

Yeah, I'm looking forward to the book for all the numbers, plus any other special Sally goodness.

We also have to wait and see what the natural legion rules are, on top of what the Primarchs add.

 Oakenshield wrote:
OP, even if Forgeworld was somehow beholden to follow Black Library story lines (which they are not) these rules were most likely already finalized and in the book in the last stages of editing when Vulkan Lives was published and introduced the idea of Vulkan as a perpetual. In the 20 years since Vulkan was introduced with second edition, he has only been presented as a perpetual by one book published in the last few months.

OT: I actually like the idea of perpetuals, seeing them as psi mentioned as a nod to bygone sensei of earlier editions. In the hands of better storytellers like Dan Abnett they make for interesting characters. I do NOT like the idea of Vulkan as one though. I really wish Nick Kyme and James Swallow had never been given any HH assignments.

Look if you followed the thread for the entirety of 20 posts you'd see it was never about that.
It's how uncreative the rules are. My theoretical rule that came in two seconds for Curze of removing the model and making shortened invisible movements until he gets into combat is far more unique than what we got.
And how damn strong Vulkan looks compared to Angron. The primarchs should be very easy to balance on fluff but if these two were to fight Vulkan would crush Angron like the foo he was for challenging him.
Angron would annihilate any other primarch in the fluff with the exception of Magnus.
When the first set of rules came out they were accurate and moderately creative. Fulgrim is all about speed, Angron is a mighty beatstick, Horus is well rounded, Mortarion Is all about durability.
But now?
They seem to be treating the most unique loyalist primarchs rather blandly, like they have a template from the previous set. Vulkan has a S:6 heavy flamer. OK. And can create a S:8 AP:3 3 inch blast with every attack. Which one are you gonna use? Which one is upholding the character?

Then, consider that Ferrus has 6 wounds and Angron only has 5 and the situation becomes more dire. To be honest I have no idea how Fulgrim even killed Ferrus with the rules as given!

Because Fulgrim doesn't have his special Daemon Blade, and remember he took away Ferrus best weapon.

 kinratha wrote:

Incredibly disappointed.
I of all people could have made some better more creative rules.

Lol, like the Emperor?

Look at these...
Mine were done from a far lower fluff to tt nerf.
People have massively different views on the emperor (your's are wrong obviously )
Some people were bound to defend them and some people were bound to assault them.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Then, consider that Ferrus has 6 wounds and Angron only has 5 and the situation becomes more dire. To be honest I have no idea how Fulgrim even killed Ferrus with the rules as given!

Because Fulgrim doesn't have his special Daemon Blade, and remember he took away Ferrus best weapon.

He actually does. The blade of Laer.

 Blacksails wrote:
Yeah, I'm looking forward to the book for all the numbers, plus any other special Sally goodness.

We also have to wait and see what the natural legion rules are, on top of what the Primarchs add.

Here's what I found regarding the Salamanders:

XVIII Legion: Salamanders
Legion Special Rules
Strength of Will: Auto pass fear tests, must reroll 1d6 on failed morale and pinning checks .
Promethean Gift: All Flamer Weapons get +1S, and all enemy Flamer Weapons count as -1S when used against Salamanders.
Nocturne Born: Do not add their Initiative to sweeping advance score reduce Run and Charge distances by -1" to a minimum of 1".
Pyre Guard Terminators - Vulkan's bodyguard of Terminators. They are the only unit in 30k to get Storm Shields for that 3++ Save.
Pyroclasts - Pyromaniac Marines, they have special weapons that can either be fired as either Flamers or Meltas.

Their legion rules are cool, Nocturne born is a bit of a drag but I think the amount of insane flamers you guys get can be fixed. Actually, now you can do a hilarious Heavy Support squad.

Heavy Support Team
5 Additional Marines
Replace Heavy Bolters with Heavy Flamers
Drop Pod

You drop down and you have TEN Str6 AP4 templates. That's crazy good. it's only 260 points, too.

Oh man, I don't know where you found that, but that sounds awesome for Sallies. I actually kinda like the drawback to sweeping advances and running. Gives them that deliberate advance feeling.

They feel like a durable, unphased, flamey and melta goodness force.

Oh man, my poor wallet. Might have to dip into my line of credit a little for a small force. But just a small one.

And by small, I mean several Sicaran tanks and a few Fellblades. Send help.

 Blacksails wrote:
Oh man, I don't know where you found that, but that sounds awesome for Sallies. I actually kinda like the drawback to sweeping advances and running. Gives them that deliberate advance feeling.

They feel like a durable, unphased, flamey and melta goodness force.

Oh man, my poor wallet. Might have to dip into my line of credit a little for a small force. But just a small one.

And by small, I mean several Sicaran tanks and a few Fellblades. Send help.

You're calling the legion of white dudes with charred black skin named after wingless dragons, with nearly 20000 of their brothers killed in front of their eyes.....sallies.
That's too far for a nickname bro, way too damn far.
Regardless Vulkan handing Angron his ass In melee is too stupid from a fluff perspective.

...Have you never heard anyone refer to the Salamanders as Sallies or Sally before? Its a fairly common short term for them.

Anyways, I'm not going to get in a fluff discussion with you, as we've already established in several threads the way you interpret the fluff.

I will say that Angron could certainly use a boost. That's it.

 Blacksails wrote:
Oh man, I don't know where you found that, but that sounds awesome for Sallies. I actually kinda like the drawback to sweeping advances and running. Gives them that deliberate advance feeling.

They feel like a durable, unphased, flamey and melta goodness force.

Oh man, my poor wallet. Might have to dip into my line of credit a little for a small force. But just a small one.

And by small, I mean several Sicaran tanks and a few Fellblades. Send help.

I found it on , but that's between you and me.
I don't know how real it is but it seems very flavorful and very cool and I would bet a whole Forgeworld Mark 4 Legion tactical squad that it's correct. They also have the Word Bearers rules which are very nifty.

Also, only a few Fellblades and merely several Sicaran tanks?! Think bigger than that!

Well, today I Iearned the forum's font goes smaller than I thought.

Also, stop tempting me, man. Resin crack.

*twitch*

 Blacksails wrote:
...Have you never heard anyone refer to the Salamanders as Sallies or Sally before? Its a fairly common short term for them.

Anyways, I'm not going to get in a fluff discussion with you, as we've already established in several threads the way you interpret the fluff.

I will say that Angron could certainly use a boost. That's it.

Sallies? Never. That's a flat out insult in America and I imagine in Canada. I've heard charmanders a lot due to their skin and dragon themes.
Fluff? Isn't it stated multiple times by everyone in HH that Angron is the strongest martial primarch? He's the cult primarch of Khorne after all.

 ThePrimordial wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:
...Have you never heard anyone refer to the Salamanders as Sallies or Sally before? Its a fairly common short term for them.

Anyways, I'm not going to get in a fluff discussion with you, as we've already established in several threads the way you interpret the fluff.

I will say that Angron could certainly use a boost. That's it.

Sallies? Never. That's a flat out insult in America and I imagine in Canada. I've heard charmanders a lot due to their skin and dragon themes.
Fluff? Isn't it stated multiple times by everyone in HH that Angron is the strongest martial primarch? He's the cult primarch of Khorne after all.

You what m8?
Sally/Sallies is not a "flat out" insult. Maybe in backwards H-town but never have I heard of that being an insult. I'd recommend not getting so uppity.
Also Angron isn't the best martial primarch; both Sanguinius and Horus are posited to have been the only ones capable of defeating him.

First of all, they've been Sallies since 2nd edition...

The weapon rules for Ferrus and Vulkan, if worded correctly here, might make them really tough for Horus, since (if these are accurate) they would have very little to worry about him reducing their strength during a challenge.

I think all 4 are well done, Angron is still the best army killer (he never was a duelist like Fulgrim) and I really like Hit and Run for Konrad... he can keep hopping out of challenges, slay a unit, and then get caught for a round, rinse, repeat

 Vladsimpaler wrote:

 ThePrimordial wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:
...Have you never heard anyone refer to the Salamanders as Sallies or Sally before? Its a fairly common short term for them.

Anyways, I'm not going to get in a fluff discussion with you, as we've already established in several threads the way you interpret the fluff.

I will say that Angron could certainly use a boost. That's it.

Sallies? Never. That's a flat out insult in America and I imagine in Canada. I've heard charmanders a lot due to their skin and dragon themes.
Fluff? Isn't it stated multiple times by everyone in HH that Angron is the strongest martial primarch? He's the cult primarch of Khorne after all.

You what m8?
Sally/Sallies is not a "flat out" insult. Maybe in backwards H-town but never have I heard of that being an insult. I'd recommend not getting so uppity.
Also Angron isn't the best martial primarch; both Sanguinius and Horus are posited to have been the only ones capable of defeating him.

Wasn't there that whole deal about keep Austin weird? I'd keep your mouth shut friend as to geographical affiliation.
Didn't Lorgar say that? the weakest primarch?

 ThePrimordial wrote:

I'd keep your mouth shut friend as to geographical affiliation.

You don't deal with people well, do you?

 Blacksails wrote:

 ThePrimordial wrote:

I'd keep your mouth shut friend as to geographical affiliation.

You don't deal with people well, do you?

I love my city, and everything about it. I also hate Austin.
That's all there is to that.
You seem to be ready to make assumptions about people you have no way of knowing, when there are other more viable assumptions that can be made.

Sallies? Never. That's a flat out insult in America and I imagine in Canada. I've heard charmanders a lot due to their skin and dragon themes.

No, it's not. It might be a regional thing (and a very small region at that), but it is no way a flat-out insult in the United States.

Yeah that would be the first time I've heard of such an insult.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Yeah that would be the first time I've heard of such an insult.

Mary and Sally were insults in the 50's. Despite everything else moving on in Humble Texas, they stayed somehow.
That said you're not gonna hear it in any Houston area. Humble is it's own small town.

Are we doing mathhammer again

I really hope Horus always stays as the strongest Primarch. At the moment he still is. While Ferrus and Vulkan would give him a good run for his money he'd probably still just about take them. On another note due to weird wording in his rules Horus gets a 2+ armour save and two 3+ saves for each hit.

Nope, seems like bitchhammer to me.
More PC bs with someone taking something the wrong way.

40k is about genocide, torture and worse, yet someone cant use a shorthand term for salamanders.
Some people need to chill out a bit.


OT - They all look pretty sound and they kept them fluffy without going OTT with rules that slow the game down or make things stupid.
They are tough, but to a playable level.

I do agree though that Angron now seems a bit tame for a blood crazed lunatic (sorry if thats offensive too)
He needs a boost on attacks, or something to give him a bit of an edge.
Still a solid unit killer though, and pretty damn cheap compared.

BaconUprising wrote:
I really hope Horus always stays as the strongest Primarch. At the moment he still is. While Ferrus and Vulkan would give him a good run for his money he'd probably still just about take them. On another note due to weird wording in his rules Horus gets a 2+ armour save and two 3+ saves for each hit.

You know what, for a minute I didn't understand what you were getting at, but I guess losing a wound is technically altering his characteristics. I want to strongly believe this is against RAI, but totally plausible as RAW.

And I agree 100% with Jackal.

If Angron gets to butcher some units on his way into a challenge, he's pretty tough.

I like the Sallies rules, anyone want to share the other Legions'

PS: in the Midwest its still a Nancy or a Sally to emasculate someone. I'm guess I'm just hipster enough to not let colloquial insults affect my 40k experience.

If your looking for the legion rules follow this link: http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/6th_Edition_Tactics/Space_Marines/Legion_List#The_Primarchs

 Blacksails wrote:

BaconUprising wrote:
I really hope Horus always stays as the strongest Primarch. At the moment he still is. While Ferrus and Vulkan would give him a good run for his money he'd probably still just about take them. On another note due to weird wording in his rules Horus gets a 2+ armour save and two 3+ saves for each hit.

You know what, for a minute I didn't understand what you were getting at, but I guess losing a wound is technically altering his characteristics. I want to strongly believe this is against RAI, but totally plausible as RAW.

And I agree 100% with Jackal.

It may well have been RAI because Vulkan is cheaper and a whole extra 3+ armor save you can always take if you fail another save would justify Horus being more expensive.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BaconUprising wrote:
I really hope Horus always stays as the strongest Primarch. At the moment he still is. While Ferrus and Vulkan would give him a good run for his money he'd probably still just about take them. On another note due to weird wording in his rules Horus gets a 2+ armour save and two 3+ saves for each hit.

Horus was never the strongest primarch in fluff. I'm crossing my fingers for Magnus to be 600 points.

Horus was always the strongest primarch in fluff. Also it's not a 3+ armour save its effectively another invulnerable save.

BaconUprising wrote:
Horus was always the strongest primarch in fluff. Also it's not a 3+ armour save its effectively another invulnerable save.

Horus has only been called the strongest primarch by Lorgar and even then he himself thinks otherwise in his monolougues throughout the HH.
Meanwhile Magnus and Angron have all of their brothers naming them the most powerful primarch. Magnus is stopping legion advances and making himself warlord sized to uppercut gargants. Horus doesn't have any feats .
Technialy because you can take it if you fail your 2+ it's not really an invul..