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The Inquisitor's Handbook is something I'd consider mandatory for people buying their first DH products. GM kit is generally very useful as well. As for the rest, it really depends on your taste. Creatures Anathema is a good one as it's general. Disciples of the Dark Gods is good for expanding upon the Calixis Sector. Everything after that is either an adventure or a book tailored more towards specific characters (not that there's anything wrong with that, but they're not as generally useful as the ones mentioned above). Then there's the Radical's Handbook and Ascension, which are generally useful to any character like the first few books I mentioned, but are more specific in their roles (ie. not much good if you don't want to go Radical/advance beyond standard Acolytes).

Manchu wrote:
The powers are sometimes bit overblown in the description compared to their mechanical effects.

"Powers"? Care to be a bit more specific?

Manchu wrote:
And the roleplaying advice is IMO not very interesting or even sound.

Role-playing advice? I'm not having a dig at you, I'd just prefer you be a little less vague in what you're actually criticising.

Manchu wrote:
The most disappointing thing, as I believe I've told you before, is that the archetypes are more powerful than the core ones and they seem a bit more like sample character builds with homes rules than solid, useful choices. Overall, they remind me of the excessive splat of the 3.5 heyday, if a bit more interesting thanks to the license, and I think they are far too expensive. On the other hand, players who like to min/max builds and equipment load outs may find them more interesting than me.

You're right, you have mentioned that part to me before. I tend to disagree, because I don't mind the fact that they're more powerful than regular starting characters (they're intended to be - it wasn't an accident, so I can't criticise something for achieving exactly what it set out to do). Furthermore, as BC is essentially a rank-less system, you can start any other character at the same level as these specialist Archetypes if you want, so it's not as if they force some players to start far higher or lower than other players in the same group.

I'm not an expert, but I wonder if the compatability of the FFG 40k RPG line is kind of like that of the older Wolrd of Darkness from White Wolf.

WW had a separate game, using variants of the same core, for Vampires, Werewolves, Mages, Mummies, etc. They used stats with the same basic range, and generally could be made to work, but there could be 'issues' and the primary company stance was that they really weren't aimed at the 'Joke Setup' group where the player characters Werewolf, Vampire, and Mummy walk into a bar. They targeted an all-werewolf group, or all-vampire, etc. So exactly how a Vampire power might interact with a Werewolf power might be a bit vague, especially if it was in positive ways (as allies) as opposed to negative ways (as adversaries). Still, a lot of FAQs and text in books about how to handle interactions. One neat thing is that a GM of one game could mine the others for resources to make opponents... For example, a Vampire party could be challenged by a Werewolf pack that had some special info and upgrades. (And, yes, what happens if each bites the other was discussed.)

Where this got interesting is that each game had very different and interesting mythology. The mythologies would often contradict each other, in fact.

Where this is relevant to the 40k RPGs is that I feel both product lines are written such that while they are shared settings, each is composed of separate games that focus on one facet of that setting, and may present other elements in whatever light is necessary. In the WoD, if you were playing Vampire there were stats for werewolf-things as opponents, or you could use Werewolf to make them. The werewolf-things weren't really explored deeply, but had some hints of being the deeper werewolves of the Werewolf game.

So in Deathwatch, we have Space Marines as the 'stars' and they're going to be interesting, likely flawed, but complex heroes. They need to be because they have to carry the story of the game and not just be robotic kill-machines. DW is the best (but not only) place to handle details like inter-Chapter rivalries or the more human aspects of the Space Marine 'concept' and the game needs to support this.

In a lot of the other 40k games, Space Marines are going to be near-mythical. An encounter with one of these extremely rare entities is a definite sign that something big is happening.

If you're an Inquisitor's lackey and your boss meets a Space Marine and gives them a coded packet of info, something big and explosive is probably about to happen. Consider if the Inquisitor is suddenly uncharacteristically deferential and polite to a squad-leader of a Chapter.

On the battlefield, the average soldier would probably be as scared of seeing some Space Marines as allies as they would as enemies. You're a grunt hiding in a fox-hole and a seven+ foot tall walking mountain of armor strides through, uncaring that everyone is ankle-deep in mud, blood, and whatever else. You can't compare to this near demi-god. You're human, probably scared (being scared on a battlefield being the normal, human response), and likely guilty of several minor sins according to the Imperial Creed... The Space Marines don't drink or gamble (well, maybe the Space Wolves, but keeping up with them is suicidal). They don't womanize, they don't write letters home to family, they don't complain about sleeping in a trench for a month with short rations.

But you know what? the average Guardsmen is pretty heroic because they do make all those human mistakes and still fight on, even without cool armor and guns. And if you're playing a game like Only War, they're the stars.

Space Marines in a lot of games (when they're not the stars) should be almost a force of nature.

To the original topic, is it difficult to break from the battlefield story for Only War?

 Balance wrote:


To the original topic, is it difficult to break from the battlefield story for Only War?

It is, just that keep in mind the system and chracters are more for a battelfield, so social skills, while all present, cost more than usual, as charm is far less important than dodge or BS. Only the Ratling is build as a heavy social character (with having both social and fellowship attributes), with the Commissar, Priest and Weapon Specialists as seconds.

 Lynata wrote:
Feel free to insult my supposed lack of ability one more time with your insinuations, though. The same offer goes for HMBC, of course, who could not resist the opportunity for a potshot.

What's insulting is for you to argue that native speakers do not know how to use their own language as well as you. What's hilarious is that you are consistently wrong. What's irritating is that you stubbornly refuse to admit it.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
it wasn't an accident, so I can't criticise something for achieving exactly what it set out to do

I'm not criticizing for not doing what it was intended to do. I don't know what it was intended to do. But what it does do is not really useful or even rational. That's the basis of my criticism. Starting characters should be starting characters. What the Tome of ___ books give you is closer to sample characters.

 Balance wrote:
I'm not an expert, but I wonder if the compatability of the FFG 40k RPG line is kind of like that of the older Wolrd of Darkness from White Wolf.

That's an excellent comparison; the 40k RPGs are not designed for "Monster Mash" play. OTOH, there is the issue of gear. A particular model of bolter in DH should be the same as in RT, DW, etc. Maybe that is already the case, it doesn't really bother me one way or the other.

Do what the cool kids do and get all the fluff books and use the rpg system of your choice.