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For me, this would be the end of the game. I don't own a tablet and have no intentions of buying one - same with a smart phone. Having used ebooks and friends' tablets before, I hate navigating with them, and find them a pain to read compared to an actual book.

I currently buy print editions of any book I intend to play with, and get copies of the rest of the books through "other" means so I can get to know the other armies out there as they come out. I'm not paying for a digital codex, only to then have to pay more to print it out (or have it printed) so I can make sure I have the proper rules on hand for my army at the local shop.

On a side note, I don't agree that current books are invalidated by the end of finecast unless you consider almost every current codex to already be invalided as soon as it leaves the printers. There is not much difference between having a book that shows models that don't exist anymore, and releasing a book with rules for units that don't have models, which they do with pretty much every codex..

It won't happen. GW has gone in great pains recently to create and upkeep a "premium" image and part of it are high-quality printed material. Lot of the appeal of miniatures wargaming, and GW games in particular is the "ooh, shiny" -effect. People see something nice looking when they wander by and decide they want it. This is all part of the GW's business model where physical stores with physical items are considered important. Heck, GW even went full-colour and good quality paper for mini rulebook in starter set! Certainly there are no signs of them abandoning printed books.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 pretre wrote:

Daston wrote:
Cant see it happening, how much would they lose to piracy alone? If your forced to spend £30 for a digital download people will just get torrents.

Yeah, this is totally true! Right now there are no torrents for print books that people download so making everything go digital would totally create all of those torrents and force people to use them.

Well, it certainly would force me. I can't torrent a printed book. I can torrent an ebook.

The printed book gets scanned THEN put up on torrent sites, its been around a while....

Backfire wrote:
Well, it certainly would force me. I can't torrent a printed book. I can torrent an ebook.

O RLY? I guess google is wrong about all the books currently available.

 pretre wrote:

Backfire wrote:
Well, it certainly would force me. I can't torrent a printed book. I can torrent an ebook.

O RLY? I guess google is wrong about all the books currently available.

Y RLY. I'll bet you handsome amount of money that not one of them is a printed book.

PS: PDF scan of a printed book is not a printed book.

Backfire wrote:
Y RLY. I'll bet you handsome amount of money that not one of them is a printed book.

PS: PDF scan of a printed book is not a printed book.

Well of course they aren't. The point was that he said

"Cant see it happening, how much would they lose to piracy alone? If your forced to spend £30 for a digital download people will just get torrents. "
And I said:
"Yeah, this is totally true! Right now there are no torrents for print books that people download so making everything go digital would totally create all of those torrents and force people to use them"

Translation: He thinks going to eBooks will cause piracy. I was bringing up that piracy is alive and well without eBooks.

So yes, you can torrent a scanned copy printed book. Which is what I was talking about.

Backfire wrote:

 pretre wrote:

Backfire wrote:
Well, it certainly would force me. I can't torrent a printed book. I can torrent an ebook.

O RLY? I guess google is wrong about all the books currently available.

Y RLY. I'll bet you handsome amount of money that not one of them is a printed book.

PS: PDF scan of a printed book is not a printed book.

Dumbest argument ever.

You people are driving me to drinking. Granted, that's a trip that doesn't take much gas...

If this happened I'd revert to my earlier edition codex. No one in my group owns an iPad or other eReader. None of us want to buy such a device just for 40K.

I guess if we were allowed to print a copy out for ourselves (ie make our own books) that *might* fly... but considering the amount I do on the computer already in every other area of life I do prefer the chance to have *one* hobby left that I can play without requiring an electronic device.

Backfire wrote:
It won't happen. GW has gone in great pains recently to create and upkeep a "premium" image and part of it are high-quality printed material. Lot of the appeal of miniatures wargaming, and GW games in particular is the "ooh, shiny" -effect. People see something nice looking when they wander by and decide they want it. This is all part of the GW's business model where physical stores with physical items are considered important. Heck, GW even went full-colour and good quality paper for mini rulebook in starter set! Certainly there are no signs of them abandoning printed books.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 pretre wrote:

Daston wrote:
Cant see it happening, how much would they lose to piracy alone? If your forced to spend £30 for a digital download people will just get torrents.

Yeah, this is totally true! Right now there are no torrents for print books that people download so making everything go digital would totally create all of those torrents and force people to use them.

Well, it certainly would force me. I can't torrent a printed book. I can torrent an ebook.

You can torrent scans. Which I've seen plenty of online when trying to dig into rumors (thanks Google! ).

 Solorg wrote:
I guess if we were allowed to print a copy out for ourselves (ie make our own books) that *might* fly... but considering the amount I do on the computer already in every other area of life I do prefer the chance to have *one* hobby left that I can play without requiring an electronic device.

You are allowed one copy for personal use.

 pretre wrote:

Backfire wrote:
Y RLY. I'll bet you handsome amount of money that not one of them is a printed book.

PS: PDF scan of a printed book is not a printed book.

Well of course they aren't. The point was that he said

"Cant see it happening, how much would they lose to piracy alone? If your forced to spend £30 for a digital download people will just get torrents. "

Yes. The point is that people buy printed books because they want a printed book - even if they can torrent a scan for free.

But if ONLY thing which is available are ebooks, then you might just as well pirate one for free and GW doesn't get a dime.

 Maelstrom808 wrote:
For me, this would be the end of the game. I don't own a tablet and have no intentions of buying one - same with a smart phone. Having used ebooks and friends' tablets before, I hate navigating with them, and find them a pain to read compared to an actual book.

..

How do you live....

Backfire wrote:

 pretre wrote:

Backfire wrote:
Y RLY. I'll bet you handsome amount of money that not one of them is a printed book.

PS: PDF scan of a printed book is not a printed book.

Well of course they aren't. The point was that he said

"Cant see it happening, how much would they lose to piracy alone? If your forced to spend £30 for a digital download people will just get torrents. "

Yes. The point is that people buy printed books because they want a printed book - even if they can torrent a scan for free.

But if ONLY thing which is available are ebooks, then you might just as well pirate one for free and GW doesn't get a dime.

This.

I like books as objects, I hope one day to have a house with a proper library in it, and for some reason I find it easier to absorb information off a printed page than a screen. For those reasons I will never go fully digital, and will just have one foot in both camps, as I do now. (At least until the environmental lobby outlaw paper! )

That's another thing: nerds are tactile. We like collecting stuff, holding it in our hands, and showing it off. I'd be bummed if I couldn't put the next Codex: Space Marines on my shelf.

I CAN'T GET BEHIND THAT!

But also, I don't believe it's true. It's also pretty difficult to control any software that's end game is just text on a screen, because screen shots. On a ipad or iphone, you just hold the power button and home button and voila! DRM destroyed.

 cincydooley wrote:

 Maelstrom808 wrote:
For me, this would be the end of the game. I don't own a tablet and have no intentions of buying one - same with a smart phone. Having used ebooks and friends' tablets before, I hate navigating with them, and find them a pain to read compared to an actual book.

..

How do you live....

I don't own a tablet, either. I do have a first generation Kindle, though. I prefer paper rule books.

But then, I'm probably older than 90% of you fethers.

 kronk wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:

 Maelstrom808 wrote:
For me, this would be the end of the game. I don't own a tablet and have no intentions of buying one - same with a smart phone. Having used ebooks and friends' tablets before, I hate navigating with them, and find them a pain to read compared to an actual book.

..

How do you live....

I don't own a tablet, either. I do have a first generation Kindle, though. I prefer paper rule books.

But then, I'm probably older than 90% of you fethers.

I actually find it hard to read on my iPad after I've worked on the computer all day at my job. Thats why I have a Kindle too (even though it's a bit redundant).

I'm all about paperless/digital though. I'm getting ready to digitize all my blu rays and then sell the physical copies. Who wants/needs all that extra clutter?

I've tried running the Necromuda PDF off my smart phone, and I can say its the worst way I've ever tried to play the game. I'd never take a virtual codex over a real one.

Keeping my lovely hardback CSM thank you.

I don't have tablets, smartphones or even a laptop. After using desktops for decades, I just can't get used to crappy ergonomics mobile devices have. Yeah, I'm a luddite.

 captsabre wrote:
I've tried running the Necromuda PDF off my smart phone, and I can say its the worst way I've ever tried to play the game. I'd never take a virtual codex over a real one.

Keeping my lovely hardback CSM thank you.

There's the difference. I'd never fathom trying to "run" a book off my smart phone. That's exactly why tablets exist.

 Brother SRM wrote:
That's another thing: nerds are tactile. We like collecting stuff, holding it in our hands, and showing it off. I'd be bummed if I couldn't put the next Codex: Space Marines on my shelf.

This, I work in IT, i have an iPad, numerous laptops, dedicated desktop in my game room, i carry two smart phones (one for work and my own) and i have a nook as well as a android tablet to....and i still buy physical print books, i still buy older codexes and older RPG materials off ebay as well. i actually like to collect them, i prefer them for use while gaming and think i most likely always will, i do read a lot on my iPad (tech stuff mostly) but for stuff that matters to "me" (the person not the worker bee) i want a real book.
but im told that im an old fart as well (well 41 so my kids say that) ...so what do i know

I call BS on this rumor as you can't sell a Limited Edition e-Book like you can an LE physical book.

 cincydooley wrote:

 captsabre wrote:
I've tried running the Necromuda PDF off my smart phone, and I can say its the worst way I've ever tried to play the game. I'd never take a virtual codex over a real one.

Keeping my lovely hardback CSM thank you.

There's the difference. I'd never fathom trying to "run" a book off my smart phone. That's exactly why tablets exist.

I did also try a tablet, still had the same problems. Then again I was running it through the Adobe app. However it is just so much damn easier with a book. And a big one up on books, dont need electricity for that gak. If my tablet runs out of power at crucial point.. well damn.

Books dont need reloading. Heh

 Bull0 wrote:

Kendo wrote:
So now entry into the game is a $120 box, a $30 ecodex, and a $500 iPad? I don't know why the average brick and mortar store would even bother with the game at that point.
I want to say "nay" but they have done worse stuff.

Yeah, let's just slip that in there, at some point in the past GW have done "something" worse than forcing players to either buy an "iPad" or stop playing. Care to say what that was? And just because I feel duty-bound to counter this misinformation when it surfaces, you do not need an iPad to read digital codexes, just the "enhanced edition" versions with image galleries etc. They also release them as ePubs and Mobis that you can read on your phone or computer, or print out.

Which one of those options would not require me not to own hundreds of dollars worth of electronics above and beyond the actual cost of the product?

Install base of phones and computers dwarfs install base of tablets (particularly iPads) so you're touting a false equivalency there

 azreal13 wrote:

I like books as objects, I hope one day to have a house with a proper library in it, and for some reason I find it easier to absorb information off a printed page than a screen. For those reasons I will never go fully digital, and will just have one foot in both camps, as I do now. (At least until the environmental lobby outlaw paper! )

Aren't the Codexes and rulebooks printed on plasticised sheets for greater durability?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also - a point which has only just occured to me:

If the Apocalypse comes IRL, electricity supplies would be fethed.

So if all these books went digital, we'd not be able to play 40k anymore...

(By apocalypse, I mean anything that restricts my access to electricity... [1st world problems, Ik])

Nonsense.

I am a collector, I pay to own stuff. Physical stuff. I relish to see my shelves full of books. Because I love my books, and I hear them talking in the night so I know they love me too. And I smell my books. I would eat them if they were edible, and then die of regret and shame for the loss.

It is a big NO for me (like "noooooooooo") if they ever do this.

 Bull0 wrote:
Install base of phones and computers dwarfs install base of tablets (particularly iPads) so you're touting a false equivalency there

Fair enough, but my question remains, which of your suggested options do not require hundreds of dollars worth of electronics to make use of the product as it was designed?

Kendo wrote:

 Bull0 wrote:
Install base of phones and computers dwarfs install base of tablets (particularly iPads) so you're touting a false equivalency there

Fair enough, but my question remains, which of your suggested options do not require hundreds of dollars worth of electronics to make use of the product as it was designed?

You do know that printed codexes require hundreds to thousands of dollars worth of real estate and furniture in order to use them as designed right? Shelves, rooms, tables. The lists go on and on.

Think that Yakface probably has the long and short of it (or maybe short and curlies would be a more apt expression).

There is a difference between what people want to see (which is for the continued basic codex to continue to exist) and what the track record over the past 6 months tells us might happen if you view things in a logical manner. Most people agree that ltd edition + digital only is a bad idea. But so what? So was the way Finecast was introduced, the cutting down to 1 man stores, the rest of world ban, Games Day, the increased direct only and too many other numerous things to mention. All of those things benefited GW's ledger at the expense of the fans and customer base, and this rumour slots in neatly with that. So, while you might say "I would hate it if they did that", people saying those exact words in the past didn't change what followed.

I could totally see an early (basic) digital release, followed by an extremely expensive ltd edition printed version, with GW knowing that many fans will want to buy both. Perhaps 6 months later a 'deluxe' digital edition which includes an FAQ, and perhaps then a 'super deluxe' that combines other bits and pieces with some kind of faux-leather cover for an extra $50. There is every possibility that many people could end up buying 3-4 copies of exactly the same material.