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How do the Tyranid players feel about this?

They can't take allies or formations (well, they will prolly come out with a Tyranid specific formation before Xmas).

I couldn't care less. I don't play the game because it's balanced and I already got pooped on with allies from the BRB. It's just one more reason not to start another army (because it's lead to another 5 armies).

 Orock wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:

Eldercaveman wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:
What is this game going to look like by January? This seems crazy even for them.

I was just beginning to write up the rules pack for my tournament next year, but I think I will wait out December first just to see what we are left with.

I already sent out the message that formations and super heavies are banned from my events. Ive already been thinking about banning allies for the better part of the year because of the janky BS they create. Tournaments are going to be under lots of pressure to add ban lists otherwise its going to be utterly stupid.

I am done with GW for tournaments. Used to be you could take just your primary army, have some fun, and if you were a decent player at least place. Now they have opened up the floodgates of cheese, where only the beardiest lists will prevail. Its honestly sickening.

What game have you played for the past ten years? There's always been cheese lists, all the way back from 2nd edition up.

@ZebioLizard2
+1 to that statement, I have a very distinct memory of my first swooping hawk exarch purchase back in 3ed. I show up at a tournament, he eats 3 armies in a row, and I am never allowed to play him again. 1 Model eating an entire army was super "fair"... Or 4ed grav tanks... 5ed GK... actually 6ed has been at least more spread out in their power builds due to the inclusions of allies, etc.

@Thread
I will be curious about these Allied Formations. The first one published is interesting but 1 riptide and 6 broadsides is very static, doesn't actually win you games (aka not scoring), and a huge investment in points (~800 pts). If they are all that many points they will not be as popular as might be thought. I would really love a deathwing allied formation...it could be vaguely possible to actually see deathwing at tournaments!

The sky is falling! The sky is falling!!! RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!

Remember, it seems that allied formations aren't scoring even though they might be Battle Brothers or Allies in Convenience.

So no datasheet out today?

 Jrandom wrote:
So no datasheet out today?

Let them wake up! It's only 7.25 here, check back a bit after 9.

Just a fantasy formation for skellies today.

 Peregrine wrote:
Wow. Maybe the next book will be $50 for "you can take units from any army list in your army" and a few pages of recycled fluff and pictures.

So we're going back to the Rogue Trader way of doing things? Sign me up!

@Thread - Those of you that are already getting poopie pants of the possible cheese to come.

Exhibit A: Tau/Farsight - cheese cropped up from allies mechanics and the new supplement additions.
Exhibit B: Tau/Eldar - cheese cropped up from the use of allies mechanics
Exhibit C: Pure Chaos Daemons - 100% internal cheese without the needed assistance of the added cheese many are crying out.

A 2++ rerollable invuln on something that can cross the board in 1 turn and maw anything in combat in probably the epitome of cheese in this game ATM. Fear of beardiness from these datasheets is laughable when the ultimate beardiness is already in the game.

Just need a formation that gives condemnor ammo to sternguard. Then it will balance out some stuff.

 Goat wrote:
when the ultimate beardiness is already in the game.

Famous last words, but I guess we will see.

Does anyone have a link to that imperial fists dataslate? I can't find it anywhere.

 Eldar Vampire Hunter wrote:
Does anyone have a link to that imperial fists dataslate? I can't find it anywhere.

What Imperial Fists dataslate? They only have a Codex Supplement out right now.

 Ravenous D wrote:

Eldercaveman wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:
What is this game going to look like by January? This seems crazy even for them.

I was just beginning to write up the rules pack for my tournament next year, but I think I will wait out December first just to see what we are left with.

I already sent out the message that formations and super heavies are banned from my events. Ive already been thinking about banning allies for the better part of the year because of the janky BS they create. Tournaments are going to be under lots of pressure to add ban lists otherwise its going to be utterly stupid.

that still wont fix daemons screamerstar, as a matter of fact your just giving them the tournament. Might as well ban deathstars too.

Renegade_commander wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:

Eldercaveman wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:
What is this game going to look like by January? This seems crazy even for them.

I was just beginning to write up the rules pack for my tournament next year, but I think I will wait out December first just to see what we are left with.

I already sent out the message that formations and super heavies are banned from my events. Ive already been thinking about banning allies for the better part of the year because of the janky BS they create. Tournaments are going to be under lots of pressure to add ban lists otherwise its going to be utterly stupid.

that still wont fix daemons screamerstar, as a matter of fact your just giving them the tournament. Might as well ban deathstars too.

Ban all the things!

Renegade_commander wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:

Eldercaveman wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:
What is this game going to look like by January? This seems crazy even for them.

I was just beginning to write up the rules pack for my tournament next year, but I think I will wait out December first just to see what we are left with.

I already sent out the message that formations and super heavies are banned from my events. Ive already been thinking about banning allies for the better part of the year because of the janky BS they create. Tournaments are going to be under lots of pressure to add ban lists otherwise its going to be utterly stupid.

that still wont fix daemons screamerstar, as a matter of fact your just giving them the tournament. Might as well ban deathstars too.

Pretty much, you're just making it easier on Tau Riptide lists, Eldar Wavespam, and Screamerstar. They don't need no allies, fortifications, and super heavies to conquer the game itself.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Renegade_commander wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:

Eldercaveman wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:
What is this game going to look like by January? This seems crazy even for them.

I was just beginning to write up the rules pack for my tournament next year, but I think I will wait out December first just to see what we are left with.

I already sent out the message that formations and super heavies are banned from my events. Ive already been thinking about banning allies for the better part of the year because of the janky BS they create. Tournaments are going to be under lots of pressure to add ban lists otherwise its going to be utterly stupid.

that still wont fix daemons screamerstar, as a matter of fact your just giving them the tournament. Might as well ban deathstars too.

Ban all the things!

And then ban banning!

The fear mongering abound about ban lists seems a bit much. I would tend to think that ya, if it just became a subjective "whatever units the TO doesn't like" style thing I would be against it, however it's very easy to just say "no formations. no super heavies" ect. Very simple, it's not subjective or prejudicial; it's a simple broad brush that can work. Yes 5th ed still had codex creep and some armies were better than others but it certainly didn’t look as stupid as 6th ed games.

I helped skimask mohawk with a tournament in the summer, it was really simple, 1 army (codex), no allies, no fortifications, no random objectives. My guess was people who took issue with that probably didn't attend. It was a good tournament with minimal stupid gak on the table. We also made sure to have terrain heavy tables with a lot of los blockers. That helped balance things out.

I remember reading comments on bols when the tournament scene was still trying to get its head around 6th ed early on, fortifications were being debated because they would alter how tournaments have historically worked (TO's and other event staff setup boards, not attendees) and in the comment section one of the comments was along the lines of "If I can't bring my fortress of redemption, it's not a real 40k tournament". I remember reading that comment and feeling almost sick to my stomach, I thought to myself "now they've done it, now the entitled little brats have won". I mean, heaven forbid someone not allow you to field your GI Joe mega fortress in every game, what an injustice, I mean we all remember those bring your own terrain and set it up however you want tournaments from 5th...

It's like the FW thing, people get very entitled with their little soldiers and it's understandable to some extent when you consider the investment in money and hopefully time painting. I'm sure it must be annoying if you can't find any opponents who are ok with fighting forge world but I've seen the very false attitude that entitlement breeds first hand, it's the dude who can't possibly comprehend that just having a game is an elective process, anyone can choose to play or not play you for really any reason (personality, hygiene, rules knowledge), so stating that something is "40k approved" is great and all but if people take issue, that fact probably won't magically force them to play you.

The biggest fallacy I keep seeing is "40k is already broken so you're not allowed to take issue with things that break it further" that's just horsepoop in my opinion. That's like saying "we already knew the ship was sinking from that pinhole leak so you can't be uspet with an additional hull breach the size of an elephant". It's like the attitude of "well life isn't fair" being used as a justification to throw away any attempt at achieving more equality. I have no illusions, basic 40k without any expansions or stuff like allies or fortifications will still have plenty of balance issues but at least the race to the bottom is contained somewhat. Plenty of people are fielding things that they would rather not have to in order to compete and that's the race to the bottom right there.

The game is too many things to too many people right now and it needs proper compartmentalization in the rules.

Renegade_commander wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:

Eldercaveman wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:
What is this game going to look like by January? This seems crazy even for them.

I was just beginning to write up the rules pack for my tournament next year, but I think I will wait out December first just to see what we are left with.

I already sent out the message that formations and super heavies are banned from my events. Ive already been thinking about banning allies for the better part of the year because of the janky BS they create. Tournaments are going to be under lots of pressure to add ban lists otherwise its going to be utterly stupid.

that still wont fix daemons screamerstar, as a matter of fact your just giving them the tournament. Might as well ban deathstars too.

And Im working on the restricted and banned list.

Example:
-0-2 heralds of one type,
-Grimoire not able to effect the unit the model is in
-Fate weaver needing to be on the table to get the reroll.

0-1 farseers and 0-5 warlocks can have jetbikes
0 -4 wave serpents

0-2 riptides (including Ovesa)

etc etc.

 Ravenous D wrote:

Renegade_commander wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:

Eldercaveman wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:
What is this game going to look like by January? This seems crazy even for them.

I was just beginning to write up the rules pack for my tournament next year, but I think I will wait out December first just to see what we are left with.

I already sent out the message that formations and super heavies are banned from my events. Ive already been thinking about banning allies for the better part of the year because of the janky BS they create. Tournaments are going to be under lots of pressure to add ban lists otherwise its going to be utterly stupid.

that still wont fix daemons screamerstar, as a matter of fact your just giving them the tournament. Might as well ban deathstars too.

And Im working on the restricted and banned list.

Example:
-0-2 heralds of one type,
-Grimoire not able to effect the unit the model is in
-Fate weaver needing to be on the table to get the reroll.

0-1 farseers and 0-5 warlocks can have jetbikes
0 -4 wave serpents

0-2 riptides (including Ovesa)

etc etc.

Ah, why didn't you just state It was a Comp tournament.

Also 0-2 heralds for Nurgle, Slaanesh, and Khorne is very, very cruel.

Yeah, that sounds either like comp or someone rewriting the FOC for every book in terms of what they can take.

And even if you do that all you get is new broken things because that's what some players will always do.

Just set a date cutoff for tournies.
Nothing over two months out for example.

SSettle down. Things are fine.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:


And Im working on the restricted and banned list.

Example:
-0-2 heralds of one type,
-Grimoire not able to effect the unit the model is in
-Fate weaver needing to be on the table to get the reroll.

0-1 farseers and 0-5 warlocks can have jetbikes
0 -4 wave serpents

0-2 riptides (including Ovesa)

etc etc.

Ah, why didn't you just state It was a Comp tournament.

Also 0-2 heralds for Nurgle, Slaanesh, and Khorne is very, very cruel.

Its in the early stages, its crazy that GW is forcing the tournament scene to ETC style in order to make it playable. Because otherwise 40k normally is going to like the 3rd panel:

So what has come out since Dec. 2nd? All Hobbit stuff?

I can't seem to find the formation rules clearly saying if a formation is limited to 1 of the same type or not. For example could someone take two stormwings or two firebase support formations in one list (under 2000pts and if not does double foc allow it at 2000pts?)

 Thokt wrote:
Exalt for Insaniak. I too, feel that we're moving a bit towards a more abstract setting, like MtG, and it seems like a poor choice.

I couldn't quite put the words to it, but this sums up what I think is happening perfectly.

For a game whose only real advantage *is* the setting, watering it down seems like a fething awful idea

 Dakkamite wrote:

 Thokt wrote:
Exalt for Insaniak. I too, feel that we're moving a bit towards a more abstract setting, like MtG, and it seems like a poor choice.

I couldn't quite put the words to it, but this sums up what I think is happening perfectly.

For a game whose only real advantage *is* the setting, watering it down seems like a fething awful idea

Except the setting already had alliances of all kinds. I mean Grey Knights trilogy has a Justicar who teams up with Orks and an Eldar (well...there is more to the latter but I won't spoil it) while imprisoned on a Khorne world and being forced to fight like a gladiator in an arena.

We have Ork Merchs all over the place, Inquisitors who range from the very puritan to the extremely radical and more. If you can think of it the setting can probably support it (and more).

The "setting" isn't being watered down, they're just changing the ways we can express that setting on the table and trying to give us more narrative tools to work with. Just like anything 40k: ignore what you don't like and play the rest.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
ignore what you don't like and play the rest.

Two problems

1. It takes two to tango. If there's no set standard and everyone just takes whatever they feel like, ignoring what you don't like may simply result in no games.

2. I can only re-enact so many scenes from the crying game (ace ventura style) before giving up on 40k entirely.


me after 6th ed pickup game:
(from ace ventura)




If tomorrow GW announced they were doing away with points costs because they were too restrictive, would that be just as liberating?