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Chongara wrote:
ISome people might see that as government overreach or a violation of their rights, but not this crowd I guess.

Yeah this whole thread has been a little mind boggling, with the exertions some people are going through to try and provide an alternate explanation other than the most obvious one.

 whembly wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 whembly wrote:

 DogofWar1 wrote:
Yeah, I'd be willing to praise the police for checking on them, and even for making sure she was with guardians. That's good police work considering they were dozing off and she was a minor. Once the notarized letter was introduced though, they should have wished them a nice night and let them be on their way.

Eh...

How do you validate the notarized letter?

How do you validate that the person on the phone is that minor's parents?

Now I'm wondering that the 11 hour figure, in the middle of the night, isn't excessive.

Putting the timeline issue aside.

Vallidate by calling and having them fax a family picture and picture of DIL of parent would be one way.

Yeah... cool.

I'm just not too sure to label this as "racist" or anything.

Incompetence... maybe.

But, you know... human trafficking is thing. Maybe that's why this is a concern.

Not disagreeing in any way.

Moral of the story. Don't "fall asleep" in a gas station.
On a side, where are her parents? Why were they ok with this in the first place?

Police are allowed to approach you and talk to you in terms of consensual encounters. If they have some suspicion that something might be amiss, they are allowed to do some further questioning, as per a Terry stop. I think they had enough info to at least knock on the door and see what was up, what with three people sleeping in a car at a gas station, one of whom appeared to, and was, a minor.

They aren't supposed to go beyond that though. Police have set limitations on how far they are supposed to go, and they didn't have probable cause at any point, and the introduction of the notarized letter should have ended it there.

And notarized letters are different from normal letters in that they must be witnessed and signed by a third party official. Usually there's a seal involved. Handing someone a letter with some random signatures isn't notarized, there's more to it, usually involving a fee.

 Frazzled wrote:

 whembly wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 whembly wrote:

 DogofWar1 wrote:
Yeah, I'd be willing to praise the police for checking on them, and even for making sure she was with guardians. That's good police work considering they were dozing off and she was a minor. Once the notarized letter was introduced though, they should have wished them a nice night and let them be on their way.

Eh...

How do you validate the notarized letter?

How do you validate that the person on the phone is that minor's parents?

Now I'm wondering that the 11 hour figure, in the middle of the night, isn't excessive.

Putting the timeline issue aside.

Vallidate by calling and having them fax a family picture and picture of DIL of parent would be one way.

Yeah... cool.

I'm just not too sure to label this as "racist" or anything.

Incompetence... maybe.

But, you know... human trafficking is thing. Maybe that's why this is a concern.

Not disagreeing in any way.

Moral of the story. Don't "fall asleep" in a gas station.

At least if you are black with a white woman in your car.

On a side, where are her parents?

In Oklahoma.

Why were they ok with this in the first place?

Why shouldn't they be okay with her going on a trip with her instructors?

 DogofWar1 wrote:
Police are allowed to approach you and talk to you in terms of consensual encounters. If they have some suspicion that something might be amiss, they are allowed to do some further questioning, as per a Terry stop. I think they had enough info to at least knock on the door and see what was up, what with three people sleeping in a car at a gas station, one of whom appeared to, and was, a minor.

They aren't supposed to go beyond that though. Police have set limitations on how far they are supposed to go, and they didn't have probable cause at any point, and the introduction of the notarized letter should have ended it there.

And notarized letters are different from normal letters in that they must be witnessed and signed by a third party official. Usually there's a seal involved. Handing someone a letter with some random signatures isn't notarized, there's more to it, usually involving a fee.

Everyone on the planet knows what a notarized letter is. That doesn't mean gak frankly, to prove its veracity.
As we were there we don't know what else was going on. Having a minor asleep in a gas station alone is sufficient to give pause.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

At least if you are black with a white woman in your car.

How about a minor with two adult males in a city known for human trafficking? Alternatively you could switch the ethnicities and have the same issues

On a side, where are her parents?

In Oklahoma.

Exactly. This isn't a school sanctioned function. She's supposedly the only student going. Thats..weird. Also, did I mention Oklahoma is really flat yet?

Why were they ok with this in the first place?

Why shouldn't they be okay with her going on a trip with her instructors?

Because, as an actual parent of a daughter not too different of an age, that screams danger. Something like that one of the family should be there.

I'll note on our mission trips we had at least two adults, multiple kids and specified sleeping locations. There were forms, contact information, the works. Band same thing (plus an 18 wheeler with the school band logo and about 20 parents).
Martial arts, thats closer but again we were carting around more than one kid in a tournament and we weren't eight shades of stupid as to end up sleeping in a truck stop.

 Ouze wrote:

Chongara wrote:
ISome people might see that as government overreach or a violation of their rights, but not this crowd I guess.

Yeah this whole thread has been a little mind boggling, with the exertions some people are going through to try and provide an alternate explanation other than the most obvious one.

What do you mean?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Frazzled wrote:

Why shouldn't they be okay with her going on a trip with her instructors?

Because, as an actual parent of a daughter not too different of an age, that screams danger. Something like that one of the family should be there.

 whembly wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

Why were they ok with this in the first place?

Why shouldn't they be okay with her going on a trip with her instructors?

 Frazzled wrote:
Because, as an actual parent of a daughter not too different of an age, that screams danger. Something like that one of the family should be there.

Actually yea, thats pretty damn stupid.
By safety policy we wouldn't be able to do that on a church or school trip. So yea, pretty dumb.

 Frazzled wrote:
Actually yea, thats pretty damn stupid.

Yes, letting your daughter travel the world, visiting a half-dozen of the greatest mountains there is, doing what she loves the most, with an olympic gold-medal owner, is pretty damn stupid.

Especially since she's become chief ski instructor since then.

 Kovnik Obama wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
Actually yea, thats pretty damn stupid.

Yes, letting your daughter travel the world, visiting a half-dozen of the greatest mountains there is, doing what she loves the most, with an olympic gold-medal owner, is pretty damn stupid.

Especially since she's become chief ski instructor since then.

Glad it worked out for her. Others have not been so lucky.

Actually the "seals" are gak and easily reproduced.

The real information if the notary's registry number next to their signature. Even that is not enough the information on the document must match the log entry in the notary's, well, logbook.

jamesk1973 wrote:
Actually the "seals" are gak and easily reproduced.

The real information if the notary's registry number next to their signature. Even that is not enough the information on the document must match the log entry in the notary's, well, logbook.

The point is, having the paper notarized isn't required.

Non-notarized travel consent papers in Texas are sufficient in order to have the guardian take decisions pertaining to a child's medical care. A notarized version wouldn't be enough to do the most essential thing a letter of consent is supposed to do, i.e. designate the guardian?

Having had to sit there while my wife watches So You Think You Can Dance or any of those other dancing shows I'm in favour of arresting each and every dance instructor.

In other news, police will come and look at what's going on when something is slightly different. Most times they'll ask a couple of questions and move on, but if your personal circumstances differ in anyway from the norm then they'll start digging in much greater detail. And a basic reality is that inter-racial groups differ slightly from the norm.

Years ago I was moving out of a house in the late hours of the night, having finished one contract and being set to start another one the next day I was pressed for time to get my crap from one country town to another. As you might expect when there's someone taking start out of a house and putting it in his car at about 11.30 at night, the police came by. I explained the situation to them, and after a few minutes they left.

Thing is, I'm the whitest guy you've ever seen, and couldn't look more middle class. But if I was black there's no doubt they would have taken a much closer look.


And that's the reality that a lot of people live with every day - they come under more suspicion for things they have no control over, like to colour of their skin.

 Frazzled wrote:

 Kovnik Obama wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
Actually yea, thats pretty damn stupid.

Yes, letting your daughter travel the world, visiting a half-dozen of the greatest mountains there is, doing what she loves the most, with an olympic gold-medal owner, is pretty damn stupid.

Especially since she's become chief ski instructor since then.

Glad it worked out for her. Others have not been so lucky.

Hi! Remember me?

The tie was a dead giveaway. Never trust anyone in a tie.
Or lederhosen.
Or wearing a clownsuit.
Or driving a Prius.

Its said Hitler liked to wear ties in a clownsuit while driving a prius. He always wore lederhosen under his clownsuit.

I have slept many times in my car on long road trips. I have frequently been awakened by the Police with my wife and daughter in the car.

I have never been arrested, detained, asked to step out of the car, or anything. Just a few questions about what is going on and occassionally asked to move along.

This case seems a bit wierd to me.

 Easy E wrote:
I have slept many times in my car on long road trips. I have frequently been awakened by the Police with my wife and daughter in the car.

I have never been arrested, detained, asked to step out of the car, or anything. Just a few questions about what is going on and occassionally asked to move along.

This case seems a bit wierd to me.

Were you with another adult male with a minor child?

No, an adult female with a minor child.

 Easy E wrote:
No, an adult female with a minor child.

Thats a major difference.

 Frazzled wrote:

 Easy E wrote:
No, an adult female with a minor child.

Thats a major difference.

This line of thinking goes very ugly places.

 Easy E wrote:
I have slept many times in my car on long road trips. I have frequently been awakened by the Police with my wife and daughter in the car.

I have never been arrested, detained, asked to step out of the car, or anything. Just a few questions about what is going on and occassionally asked to move along.

This case seems a bit wierd to me.

Where do you park? I've slept a lot of weird places, but a parked car has not been one of them. Perhaps I'm too paranoid that I'll wake up to some homeless guy washing my window with his dong.

Chongara wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 Easy E wrote:
No, an adult female with a minor child.

Thats a major difference.

This line of thinking goes very ugly places.

It does and thats why they were interrogated.

Wait.. America isn't racist anymore?

Post segregated America would have been a better title.

 Frazzled wrote:

Chongara wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 Easy E wrote:
No, an adult female with a minor child.

Thats a major difference.

This line of thinking goes very ugly places.

It does and thats why they were interrogated.

The fact you so grossly misinterpreted what I mean by "ugly places" only serves to reinforce the point I was making.

Chongara wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

Chongara wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 Easy E wrote:
No, an adult female with a minor child.

Thats a major difference.

This line of thinking goes very ugly places.

It does and thats why they were interrogated.

The fact you so grossly misinterpreted what I mean by "ugly places" only serves to reinforce the point I was making.

Well in the spirit of your post I'd have to say the thinking of your posts is going to very ugly places.

How so?? While many of us are "normal" people who don't necessarily think down those roads, depending on your region of the US, many LEOs still think that way. Occasionally they may think that way for a reason based in reality (such as prior cases, etc), but certainly many people would see white girl with 2 dark skinned dudes... must be crime, it all ultimately comes down to area, time of day, region, etc.


Although... why anyone would go to a "Dance Class" in Houston (or anywhere for that matter) is beyond ridiculous.

Have we heard the accounts from the police side?

 Medium of Death wrote:
Post segregated America would have been a better title.

That's not true either as their still is segregation in the US (ghettos, Indian reserves, etc) but then again the original title is meant to be sarcastic so I guess your example would work too.

 whembly wrote:
Have we heard the accounts from the police side?

I want the polices side aswell TBH