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 Frozen Ocean wrote:

carlos13th wrote:
Lets be honest all primarchs have exactly the same chance of coming back which is close to 0 due to GW never moving the plot forward. That said if they did want to bring them back do you think something as small as pre established fluff would stand in their way? If they want to bring someone back who they have clearly stated has died on multiple occasions we all know they will retain that gak faster than they raise the price of character models.

Excellent point.

The thing is, from a NARRATIVE standpoint, the pre-established fluff actually SUPPORTS the Primarchs coming back. If Warhammer 40k were a reality instead of a work of fiction, it'd be unlikely that the primarchs would come back without space mojo (not that it wouldn't happen, particularly because Wh40k is a galaxy of space mojo). However, as a work of fiction, the authors have made the narrative very clear that it intends for them to come back. Things like "Some say Gulliman is healing", "they never found Dom's body", etc etc make it very clear the authors want you, the reader, to know that the primarchs coming back is an intended possibility, and the majority of times in fiction, intended possibilities actually happen as the storyline progresses.

Of course, as also pointed out, the storyline is likely not to progress. That said, I do think there's a possibility it will someday, when GW decides they want more $$$ by releasing modern day primarch models (both traitor and loyalist), but like I said before, even if that were to happen, it's far off because they need to finish the Horus Heresy first. The narrative, however, is clearly set up for them (ALL of them for the loyalists, including even Ferrus Manus if in a really particularly handwaved way. Sanguinus being the possible exception since the narrative actually addresses that he isn't supposed to come back, but again, even he has the Sanguinor, although in a way the Sanguinor also supports that he won't come back in a "the Sanguinor is as good as it'll ever get for him" way).

TiamatRoar wrote:

 Frozen Ocean wrote:

carlos13th wrote:
Lets be honest all primarchs have exactly the same chance of coming back which is close to 0 due to GW never moving the plot forward. That said if they did want to bring them back do you think something as small as pre established fluff would stand in their way? If they want to bring someone back who they have clearly stated has died on multiple occasions we all know they will retain that gak faster than they raise the price of character models.

Excellent point.

The thing is, from a NARRATIVE standpoint, the pre-established fluff actually SUPPORTS the Primarchs coming back. If Warhammer 40k were a reality instead of a work of fiction, it'd be unlikely that the primarchs would come back without space mojo (not that it wouldn't happen, particularly because Wh40k is a galaxy of space mojo). However, as a work of fiction, the authors have made the narrative very clear that it intends for them to come back. Things like "Some say Gulliman is healing", "they never found Dom's body", etc etc make it very clear the authors want you, the reader, to know that the primarchs coming back is an intended possibility, and the majority of times in fiction, intended possibilities actually happen as the storyline progresses.

Of course, as also pointed out, the storyline is likely not to progress. That said, I do think there's a possibility it will someday, when GW decides they want more $$$ by releasing modern day primarch models (both traitor and loyalist), but like I said before, even if that were to happen, it's far off because they need to finish the Horus Heresy first. The narrative, however, is clearly set up for them (ALL of them for the loyalists, including even Ferrus Manus if in a really particularly handwaved way. Sanguinus being the possible exception since the narrative actually addresses that he isn't supposed to come back, but again, even he has the Sanguinor, although in a way the Sanguinor also supports that he won't come back in a "the Sanguinor is as good as it'll ever get for him" way).

I highly doubt that Manus is coming back. He wasn't a perpetual, and he was fully decapitated by a Daemon blade. He'd deader than the Dodo, no matter how hard the Iron Hands try to ignore it.

 Wyzilla wrote:

TiamatRoar wrote:

 Frozen Ocean wrote:

carlos13th wrote:
Lets be honest all primarchs have exactly the same chance of coming back which is close to 0 due to GW never moving the plot forward. That said if they did want to bring them back do you think something as small as pre established fluff would stand in their way? If they want to bring someone back who they have clearly stated has died on multiple occasions we all know they will retain that gak faster than they raise the price of character models.

Excellent point.

The thing is, from a NARRATIVE standpoint, the pre-established fluff actually SUPPORTS the Primarchs coming back. If Warhammer 40k were a reality instead of a work of fiction, it'd be unlikely that the primarchs would come back without space mojo (not that it wouldn't happen, particularly because Wh40k is a galaxy of space mojo). However, as a work of fiction, the authors have made the narrative very clear that it intends for them to come back. Things like "Some say Gulliman is healing", "they never found Dom's body", etc etc make it very clear the authors want you, the reader, to know that the primarchs coming back is an intended possibility, and the majority of times in fiction, intended possibilities actually happen as the storyline progresses.

Of course, as also pointed out, the storyline is likely not to progress. That said, I do think there's a possibility it will someday, when GW decides they want more $$$ by releasing modern day primarch models (both traitor and loyalist), but like I said before, even if that were to happen, it's far off because they need to finish the Horus Heresy first. The narrative, however, is clearly set up for them (ALL of them for the loyalists, including even Ferrus Manus if in a really particularly handwaved way. Sanguinus being the possible exception since the narrative actually addresses that he isn't supposed to come back, but again, even he has the Sanguinor, although in a way the Sanguinor also supports that he won't come back in a "the Sanguinor is as good as it'll ever get for him" way).

I highly doubt that Manus is coming back. He wasn't a perpetual, and he was fully decapitated by a Daemon blade. He'd deader than the Dodo, no matter how hard the Iron Hands try to ignore it.

Death in 40k is such an anomalous thing though. Sanguinius is clearly dead by our definition, but even before the Sanguinor there was evidence that his soul had survived and was watching over his Blood Angels (BA Omnibus). If the soul is still intact, then who knows what could be done to give them "life" once more.

Whether or not they should be brought back is a separate matter, I believe they should remain as they are personally.

Meh,I want my primarch back!

Guilliman as well. They put a plot hole in one of the HH books of a device that heals people in stasis.

 raiden wrote:
Meh,I want my primarch back!

Sanguinius will never come back. You are stuck with Sanguinor, sorry.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Seems everyone has forgotten Corvus Corax, he just copied an Edgar Allen Poe quote and walked into the warp.

my memory s fuzzy, what quote would that be?

 Lord Spartacus wrote:
Pretty much. But don't forget about Khan leading a slave rebellion in Commorragh.

Does primarch being so resillent to Dark Eldar BDSM hedonism?

If anyone's coming back it's Ferrus Mannus.

He'll do anything to get ahead.

^ exalted

Daemon Primarchs...*Drool*

Anyone else fancy Mortarion? Magnus? Angron? Fulgrim? Those big 4 could tear things up a bit.

But on the other hand, it would be really nice for the Imperium to have some Primarchs back. I mean, if you look at the history, since the primarchs left/died the Necrons reawakened, Nids poured thru the galaxy edges, and Tau popped up! Kinda sucks to be the imperium right now...

 Wyzilla wrote:

I highly doubt that Manus is coming back. He wasn't a perpetual, and he was fully decapitated by a Daemon blade. He'd deader than the Dodo, no matter how hard the Iron Hands try to ignore it.

Ferrus Manus has the least likelihood, even from a narrative standpoint (because the narrative does say it could just be typical Iron Hand stubborness that thinks he'll come back), but it still exists if only because Ferrus coming back is still implied to be possible when Sanguinus is explicitly stated as the ONLY primarch with no chance of coming back. If a story basically says "only Sanguinus has no chance of coming back", then the narrative leaves open Ferrus coming back no matter how unlikely. But I do admit his chances are less than the other loyalist primarchs.

jathomas2013 wrote:
Anyone else fancy Mortarion? Magnus? Angron? Fulgrim? Those big 4 could tear things up a bit.

But on the other hand, it would be really nice for the Imperium to have some Primarchs back. I mean, if you look at the history, since the primarchs left/died the Necrons reawakened, Nids poured thru the galaxy edges, and Tau popped up! Kinda sucks to be the imperium right now...

So since the Imperium is attacked on all sides by every kind of xenos and daemon, you also want to add the Daemon Primarchs to the mix? What did the poor Imperium do to you?

Hey. Deamon primarchs MIGHT be enough to wake up the other loyalist primarchs. Also. Sanguinius returns with them from the warp

I want to bring Daemon Primarchs back, but I also want the Loyalists back too. Then the IoM, Chaos and Xenos will all charge at one another and blow up in a universe-shattering explosion of pure epicness.

 SarisKhan wrote:
I want to bring Daemon Primarchs back, but I also want the Loyalists back too. Then the IoM, Chaos and Xenos will all charge at one another and blow up in a universe-shattering explosion of pure epicness.

The Daemon Primarchs kill Abaddon and lead their own Black Crusade to Terra. Massive bloodshed occurs in the sol system which awakens the Void Dragon who starts killing everything in sight, the Eldar arrive to take care of the dragon, the Necrons arrive to take care of the dragon, Ghazghkull arrives in the sol system after being chased by the Black Templars, and the Tau wait for things to calm down so they can claim Terra for themselves. MORTAL KOMBAT!

Best galactic genocide ever.

derke56 wrote:
immortal until stabbed

You.
Are.
The.
King.

 Lord Spartacus wrote:

 SarisKhan wrote:
I want to bring Daemon Primarchs back, but I also want the Loyalists back too. Then the IoM, Chaos and Xenos will all charge at one another and blow up in a universe-shattering explosion of pure epicness.

The Daemon Primarchs kill Abaddon and lead their own Black Crusade to Terra. Massive bloodshed occurs in the sol system which awakens the Void Dragon who starts killing everything in sight, the Eldar arrive to take care of the dragon, the Necrons arrive to take care of the dragon, Ghazghkull arrives in the sol system after being chased by the Black Templars, and the Tau wait for things to calm down so they can claim Terra for themselves. MORTAL KOMBAT!

Best galactic genocide ever.

Abaddon has their backing and support for the 13th Black Crusade and it's also been stated that the daemon primarchs have been "rumoured" to have been spotted during it already. So the daemon primarchs probably already joined the party. We just haven't gotten rules and models to play as them yet (...besides Angron, teeeechnically and maybe)

Well, some of them do have some old models from Epic, I think


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Lord Spartacus wrote:

So since the Imperium is attacked on all sides by every kind of xenos and daemon, you also want to add the Daemon Primarchs to the mix? What did the poor Imperium do to you?

GW will likely bring both the daemon primarchs and the loyalist primarchs back at the same time. That way things advance in a way for the setting while still keeping the overall stalemate, and GW gets money from the models.

Again, if they ever do that, it won't happen until after the Horus Heresy range is complete for obvious business reasons.

TiamatRoar wrote:
Again, if they ever do that, it won't happen until after the Horus Heresy range is complete for obvious business reasons.

Well that's a bad sign since it looks like the HH books will never stop coming. Plus, they have to milk the Battle for Terra with countless books too.

SPOILER ALERT






No, Vulkan is the only one that we can say is definitely alive. Remember the codexes are written from an imperial perspective so they could be bias towards saying they will return. So yeah the only people who have seen the Lion since he was put in the rock are a bunch of little jawa things so no real proof there. We know that the necrons have a "giant power armoured figure" in statis, apparently the Dark Eldar also have one although no real confirmation but it's probably Russ caught by the cronnies and Khan caught by the DE. However Vulkan is a Perpetual and cannot die. it is yet to be revealed where he is but it will be revealed in one of the upcoming heresy novels. The cabal from the heresy said something about stopping Vulkan from ascending to become the guardian or something along those lines. it has also been confirmed that Vulkan Lives was the first in a trilogy about him so my guess is we'll find out when those books come out. But yeah to sum up, The rest no one has seen for ages and could be dead or alive despite all the prophecy's about them returning at the end times for humanities final battle. Vulkan cannot die therefor we can safely assume he is not dead XD


Automatically Appended Next Post:

"Well, some of them do have some old models from Epic, I think "


I know that Angron and Mortarion did but not sure about the others. angron looked like a steriotypical devil with wings and mortarion looked like the grim reaper.

Angron, Magnus, Fulgrim and Mortarian all had epic models back in epic 2nd edition.
As for the lion being in the rock, there are no witnesses to that, its merely stated that he is there and only the emperor knows it.

It's funny cause Daemon prince angron has official GW rules and he is worse than the pre-heresy angron from betrayal...

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2110495_The_Battle_for_Armageddon

That's what three editions worth of codex-creep will do.

 raiden wrote:
my memory s fuzzy, what quote would that be?

Quoth the raven "Nevermore."

 Shredsmore wrote:
"Nevermore."

I think whoever wrote that thinks they are extremely clever.

 1R0NM0NK3Y wrote:
SPOILER ALERT

No, Vulkan is the only one that we can say is definitely alive. Remember the codexes are written from an imperial perspective so they could be bias towards saying they will return. So yeah the only people who have seen the Lion since he was put in the rock are a bunch of little jawa things so no real proof there. We know that the necrons have a "giant power armoured figure" in statis, apparently the Dark Eldar also have one although no real confirmation but it's probably Russ caught by the cronnies and Khan caught by the DE. However Vulkan is a Perpetual and cannot die. it is yet to be revealed where he is but it will be revealed in one of the upcoming heresy novels. The cabal from the heresy said something about stopping Vulkan from ascending to become the guardian or something along those lines. it has also been confirmed that Vulkan Lives was the first in a trilogy about him so my guess is we'll find out when those books come out. But yeah to sum up, The rest no one has seen for ages and could be dead or alive despite all the prophecy's about them returning at the end times for humanities final battle. Vulkan cannot die therefor we can safely assume he is not dead XD\

A huge enormous man was spotted leading the 13th Company during the 13th Black Crusade, and Russ is also implied to still be leading it in the Ragnar Space Wolf novels, I believe.

How would the necrons get him? He's in the warp (or was). That's unreachable by the necrons.

It may be Corax, I don't know. Plus whats all this "codex creep". The current angron rules are forge world. in Betrayal...Also all that going into the warp stuff was wrong about russ. he went into the eye of terror, there is a distinct difference. and in the black crusade campaign GW brought out a while back the 13th company had all horribly mutated and most were closer to wolves than men. still fought for the imperium and wore power armour and shiz but they were all definitely wulfen. and it named a wolf lord as their leader who's name i cannot remember. i looked up on it cause i was interested in the black crusade and also in the fates of all the primarch and the 13th obviously tied in with russ.

... there's actually not much difference between the Warp and the Eye of Terror.