Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Check the actual fluff outside of the codexes. Just one simple example was the spy flies. Imagine thousands of life size miniature spy flies each semi sentient enough to act as a real fly when not being actually manually controlled, complete with sensors, mikes, cameras and equipment to deliver the info gathered across the planet. All going back to a central computer. This was likely something whipped up after an evening of banana juice fizzles
There simply is not any better engineer.

The player's Imagination

That is the greatest creator in the vast 40k universe.

Otherwise each faction has their own thing. I can't think of one who is "best"

 Psienesis wrote:

Frozen Ocean wrote:
Also, what is the obsession with puns? Cryptek is "cryptic" and probably "crypt" + "tech". Heretek is, well, obvious. And then we have the absolutely awful pun of "Enginseer".

Are you new to 40K?
The setting is absolutely filled with puns like that. It's part of the charm.

No. That doesn't make it less silly, though. And scientists/engineers seem to be the ones getting hit with the pun stick more than any other. Unless it's a later Space Marine codex, with Dreadknights and psilencers (uuugh) and psyber-eagles (uuuuuuuuugh) and so on.

Melissia wrote:

 Frozen Ocean wrote:
Meks are following pre-programmed paths.

No they aren't.

Meks have have a fundamental understanding of physics, chemistry, and mechanics programmed in to them. The path they take because of this is entirely their own choosing-- and each mek's "style" is unique to themselves, just like any human engineer.

Yes, but they didn't gain this information from learning, study, or practice - they have it because it this abstract knowledge was pre-programmed into them by the Old Ones. That is not being a good scientist, although it is extremely useful and beneficial to being a good engineer. However stylistic a Mek may be, they're still making the standard deff koptas, shootas, etc. If the Old Ones had created them to be scientists and not just engineers (and therefore conduct proper research and development), it's entirely possible that every race in the galaxy just got a good bit more screwed. Meks are essentially a living repository of Orky STCs, although of course their creations require the Waaagh to work.

I also don't own or have access to Codex: Orks, so here's a line from Lexicanum:

Mekboy, Lexicanum wrote:Mekboyz are an interesting example of the Ork race because their abilities with machinery are not a learned knowledge. It is less intelligence or skill, and more instinct, as their relative wealth of technological know-how is actually genetically engineered into them, and is expressed in their trademark crude and ramshackle style of building.

While Lexicanum is hardly the most reliable source of information, anything other than what is described above would be totally against the nature of Orks.

Animus wrote:

 Frozen Ocean wrote:
why is he "watching impassively"

Because he doesn't care about the suffering or death he's inflicting.

It's not the "impassively" part I'm critical of, it's the "watching". If you actually read the sentence instead of just taking a bit out of context, you would know that.

Me wrote: If feeding them to a molecular meat grinder is giving any data, why is he "watching impassively" instead of paying careful attention to the instruments and devices he should have set up to take readings? Does he record and study his findings, or does he merely hope to have an epiphany about the true nature of the soul as he watches a random organism be mulched?

Well of you go for quality, you have to say Necron Crypteks. But if you go for quantity, nobody produce the sheer amount of technology that the Ork Meks do.

Phhhhttt For quality, the space monkeys blow the necrons out of the water but for quantity, the necrons produce more. :p

Orangutans are apes, not monkeys ( ;P ), and Jokaero are up there with Perpetuals for the dumbest fluff ever written.

That may be true, but they have been around since the very beginning and have more than earned their way into the fluff. For looking at dumb, we could point fingers all over the place. Giant green brutes that grow out of toecheese fungus, bue men with (well you know what it looks like) on thier faces straight out of japan,fantasy races pulled straight from the pages of a michael moorecock book down to the same name, symbols and uniform style.

 Frozen Ocean wrote:
Yes, but they didn't gain this information from learning, study, or practice

They gain plenty of information from practice, it is through trial and error that a mek moves from the small projects to the big ones, and thus from mek to big mek. It is through trial and error, testing out new ideas, trying new things, that a mek learns, grows, and becomes better.

A mek fresh out of the ground isn't going to be able to build a tellyporta system capable of beaming troops down from orbit like Ghazzy needed. No, only a veteran mekboy would be capable of that.

For all the "genius" the mecks have, thier stuff is STILL pretty ramshackle and forget about even thinking of miniaturization.

 EVIL INC wrote:
thier stuff is STILL pretty ramshackle

Debatable.

 EVIL INC wrote:
and forget about even thinking of miniaturization.

They don't need to miniaturize what they build, to do so would reduce its functionality.

A monkeyman lasgun ring is neat, but it only has a single shot before it is used up and it can't be reloaded in combat. An Ork shoota shoots as long as the Ork wants it to, and can be reloaded with whatever the Ork wants to reload it with.

Therefor the Ork shoota is more practical and thus better than the Jokaero tech, regardless of the latter's level of miniaturization.

Orks are creatures of extreme practicality, they don't have time for worthless upgrades like that.

What they DO have time for is things like the most advanced shields and tractor beams in the galaxy (yes, moreso than Necron tech), all the better to get their ships in to boarding range.

I voted earth caste (their the only ones in the last few millennium who have had any big advances), but beyond that I would say humans during the age of technology.

i would say that a vehicle that literally has parts falling off of it as it drives isirly ramshackle.

The ability to miniaturie and increase effectiveness while doing it is actully a goodthing.

You are looking at it purely from a battlefield role. (in which case the mecks still lose out) but I am looking at it on multiple levels. these include such items as the spy flies I mentioed along with countless others that are usefull in many other roles which range from spywork, information gathering, medical procedures (not everyone is a living mushroom that regenerates) and space travel itself.

Dont get me wrong, I'm not dissing everyone's favorite green guys (I'd say tied with the Hulk here lol), thier latent natural ability is a wonder in itself, but they just miss out. Ork society doesnt need fancy miniaturization and spywork or many f the other gadgets the monkeys can do so for them, the monkeys work is a wastfull use of time and energy. Looking at it from total usefullness in terms of we as humans would want or as the imperium needs, the monkeys have it all. And like the orks, it is genetic and natural without official "learning or being taught.

 EVIL INC wrote:
i would say that a vehicle that literally has parts falling off of it as it drives isirly ramshackle.

Then everything is ramshackle in battle, because there's always parts falling off when things take hits.

Ork vehicles, and their tech in general, however, are quite sturdy, robust, and capable of running come the apocalypse, the same cannot be said of anyone else's tech. And even if they get damaged, the ingeniousness of Mekboyz means it can be repaired in minutes, if not instantly. The best technology isn't the fanciest, but the most effective. Ork technology has caused them to be the most successful and populous race in the galaxy, controlling by far the most territory, more than any other faction; the vehicles you call "ramshackle" are, in fact, some of the most ingeniously practical and effective war machines ever created.

And their fancier bits of tech are some of the most advanced and powerful pieces of equipment ever devised, which no other faction's tech can truly equal.

 Melissia wrote:

 EVIL INC wrote:
i would say that a vehicle that literally has parts falling off of it as it drives isirly ramshackle.

Then everything is ramshackle in battle, because there's always parts falling off when things take hits.

Ork vehicles, and their tech in general, however, are quite sturdy, robust, and capable of running come the apocalypse, the same cannot be said of anyone else's tech. And even if they get damaged, the ingeniousness of Mekboyz means it can be repaired in minutes, if not instantly. The best technology isn't the fanciest, but the most effective. Ork technology has caused them to be the most successful and populous race in the galaxy, controlling by far the most territory, more than any other faction; the vehicles you call "ramshackle" are, in fact, some of the most ingeniously practical and effective war machines ever created.

And their fancier bits of tech are some of the most advanced and powerful pieces of equipment ever devised, which no other faction's tech can truly equal.

Such as the Shokk Attack Gun.

It propels a grot through a tiny Warp portal, such that it (hopefully) materializes inside an enemy.

Such precision with the Warp is unheard of in all other tech.

How the hell is the Dark Mechanicum losing out to the Mechanicum of Mars? The latter is a dogmatic, close-minded organization that focuses on ritualizing what they already know. The former are constantly innovating with no restrictions, and have added the daemonic to the already formidable combination of flesh and technology.

You must have green blood running in your veins.
It's all cool. We have different viewpoints and perspectives. thats the fun part of these polls. it allows us to poke fun at each other's favorite armies with no ill will.
it might have something to do with the fluff changing over the years. The fluff from a lot of the armies that date from rogue trader times still floats aboutin my head and soetimes i forget the ways that it has changed over the years.
i still think the monkeys have it.of course. Just wanted ya to know its all in good fun.

 Selym wrote:
Such as the Shokk Attack Gun.

It propels a grot through a tiny Warp portal, such that it (hopefully) materializes inside an enemy.

Such precision with the Warp is unheard of in all other tech.

Hell, even their Kustom Force Field is a miraculous piece of technology the likes of which very few others have been able to replicate, and yet they can use it quite regularly. The Imperium's capable of doing it with huge generators, or to cover a single person, but a Mekboy's KFF is capable of covering an entire army with just the power from their backpack!

Necron tech is still overall better.

The Shokk Attack Gun is impressive, but to call it precise is disingenuous. It isn't precise. That is its main shortcoming as a weapon. It isn't as reliable as a Gauss Flayer, for example.

I was thinking something along those lines. I seem to remember there being a chart of some sort where the runts came out in different areas or where the meck himself got teleported. Now, if were exact where you just rolled itof of the BS of the guy shooting it with no chances of any misfires or mishaps or any need for a chat to rollon and just rolled for AP and damage when it hit, it would be a lot more impressive.

Orks maintain their current status due to their unique biology. If you could cleanse a sector of Orks just by killing them all, the Imperium would have long scoured them from existence.

Their wacky technology is literally make-believe.

They've been cleansed on some planet, its just a bit long.

 Omegus wrote:
Their wacky technology is literally make-believe.

No... it's not. None of the recent lore supports this.