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That is awesome @AG

I'd like to recommend ebay some more... by far the best way is to spend a little more and buy in bulk, giving you far better savings overall.

The best scenario is when parents just want rid of "those warhammers" their kid is now bored with, and doesn't really know what they're selling. Stuff just gets bundled together and thrown on ebay. My best example of one of these hauls was a pile of unpainted Tyranids, including a Trygon and lots of plastic guants/Warriors scattered around it in a pile. I won with a bid of around £40-50, getting what I thought was a reasonable deal worth about ~£70 at retail.

When the order turned up, I was pleasantly surprised to discover some finecast models mixed in with the guants, not clearly visible from the auction photo:
Broodlord, Lictor, Pyrovore and 1 each Hive + Tyrant Guard
That brings the retail price of the order to well over £110.

That's the kind of haul to look out for.

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

 Hivefleet Oblivion wrote:
Convert the biovores.

Swap stuff (we now have three flyrants, but only ever paid $30 for a metal one, and $8 for a finecast body, all the rest were swaps).

Buy from discounters.

You can probably get that cost down by 40%.

If you ever get any Hive Guard, you can convert up 3 Biovores for about 50% off. In the same link, there's another post where, for each Carnifex and Warriors box you have, you can convert up a full Biovore out of completely spare parts. It's awesome, I've already made up 1 and have 3 more on the way. Converting to save $$$ is also an overlooked, but fun, aspect of the hobby.

There's also other money saving tricks with some kits, like buying torso bits to double up on a kit with lots of options in it (eg, the Hive Tyrant kit), saving yourself over 50% of the price.

As for other things, the swap shop is probably the cheapest way to get the bulk of your stuff, and you can often find things NoS, unpainted or primed. Following that, ebay is usually pretty good too, I picked up 3 Fexes for $25 each a couple years ago (they're probably more than that now though since they aren't considered total crap anymore).

In addition, keep a really close eye on the bitz sites.

For instance, for my devilgants, I had all the extra arms, then bought the bodies and heads from hoardobits. Cost pennies.

I've never bought a flyrant, but will soon have three. First was a metal one, swapped the wings, second was a torso bought at a special event, swapped the wings; the third one I swapped the wings and tail. I've just bought some warrior tails, to fit with leftover heads etc, from bulletbits, as I had two spare chest pieces, and swapped more heads here. Make sure you work out what bits you need well in advance so you can buy in bulk and save shipping.

We're lucky in that we live near Dark Sphere; we try and buy everything in battleboxes, then swap or sell all the bits we don't need. You can nearly always get back essentially what you paid on eBay but of course swapping is even better.

Finally, if you've not got access to a discount store, remember you can easily get iTunes cards at a 20% discount, for digital codices and dataslates.

WayneTheGame wrote:
You don't; that's why GW is losing profit. The startup costs are insane, and keep in mind that you also need $125 just in the rules, and that's not factoring in dice, or templates, or paints.

For a company that "sells toys to kids" they sure have strange ideas about the kind of money kids have.

I don't think this is accurate. Most of the people I know that play this game are my age (I'm 28). This is a very niche hobby and it's not really marketed to kids moreso than any other demographic.

Dalymiddleboro wrote:

WayneTheGame wrote:
You don't; that's why GW is losing profit. The startup costs are insane, and keep in mind that you also need $125 just in the rules, and that's not factoring in dice, or templates, or paints.

For a company that "sells toys to kids" they sure have strange ideas about the kind of money kids have.

I don't think this is accurate. Most of the people I know that play this game are my age (I'm 28). This is a very niche hobby and it's not really marketed to kids moreso than any other demographic.

GW claims that their target demographic is kids. Whether or not that's the reality is another matter, but that's the line they believe. I don't know any "kids" who play the game either, but that's what GW claims.

The kids aren't the ones outlaying the money. Their parents, however, are. Kids don't have discretionary income or credit cards; parents do.

My parents were completely against this hobby when I was a young teen starting out. They disliked the grimdarkiness hahaha

It is my opinion that 40K is less grimdark than it was before and so maybe they are trying to appeal to ta younger demographic. However, i like it a lot less. (where are those DE slave models; anatomically correct demonettes, and grotesque Plaguebearers?)

WayneTheGame wrote:


GW claims that their target demographic is kids. Whether or not that's the reality is another matter, but that's the line they believe. I don't know any "kids" who play the game either, but that's what GW claims.

We're way OT here but HIvefleet Jr is 13, he's the one does the playing, as do around 5 of his friends. Average size army is probably a bttleforce plus 4 or 5 bigger items and HQ, probabyl about £250 all in from a couple Christmases and birthdays. There are a lot of kids in his demographic play 40k.

Age ranges skew according to where you sample - the local (discount) indie store is all older, the two local GWs are all younger buyers. Most local parents are very pleased when you alert them to the existence of Dark SPhere.

[/derail]

You know, I hate to be rude about this, but I can't help but become irritated that so many of you so consistently miss the point of what is brought up here.

You can blather on all day about your absurd philosophy of capitalism or what "business" is. You can rationalize all day long that GW is in it to make money, and you can make irrelevant points about how its possible to buy things in bulk on ebay, or thru certain stores that give % discount, blah blah blah.

Has NOTHING to do with the purpose or point of this thread. This is not a debate about how much is too much… its not a thread about convincing someone to play a different army or make a cheaper list. This thread is about a simple problem that is damaging the hobby in a HUGE way.

This is a thread about the OBSTACLE these prices create to the hobby. I don't know about anybody else, but I have certainly run up against this issue. It is VERY difficult to get your friends into this game. Most rational people will scoff at how absurd this game is once they realize the investment this game requires. That really, more than anything else, turns me away from this hobby.

I feel like I have two choice. Waste my time and money building armies that I'm never going to play the game with, which to be fair i do like to paint.

Or, I can show up to the geek store once a week and get my army blown apart by some people that are playing the GW arms race game.

In my personal opinion, I would love it if I could just get a handful of people to come together, agree on house rules, use fluff based armies, and just have some good old fashioned fun with a war-game. When people see my models, they are interested. When I play a quick game with them such as kill team, they have a blast…..

But once it comes time to go to the store and pick up a box of minis---- yea…. 10 dollars per mini? 30 dollars for one commander? 78 dollars for 3 centurions? It's absolutely absurd. Now, there are companies that can get away with this such as coach purses, ferraris, big bertha golf clubs, etc etc. But with those, people can still drive without a ferrari. People can still golf without big berthas. People can play guitar without spending 3 grand on equipment. With 40k, its just becoming a joke anymore to get new players. THAT IS THE POINT OF THIS THREAD.

It would be in the company's best interest to increase participation in the hobby, not just increase the price for the participants. It's terrible business practice.

I don't care what any of you have to say about "capitalism" or "profit" or whatever else. Someone made the point that this hobby isn't a charity…. I mean come on. What a ridiculous statement to make without addressing a single problem. You might as well just shrug your shoulders at the screen not say anything.

So sorry to be a jerk about it , but to be honest I'm sick of people refusing to see simple points just so they can go back and forth over the same tired debate.

Regardless of what you think a fair price is, this issue is a problem for our hobby. Face fact.

For a person who knows absolutely nothing about it or no one that plays I can see the price of entry being daunting. However, if you have a friend that plays is very manageable. If your friend shows a slight intrest in the game you don't send them out to by 500 bucks worth of stuff, thats ridiculous and you might be a crummy friend if you do this. Many people have multiple armies, or atleast one large one. Let them play with your stuff; sharing is caring. I have plenty of csm to make two small armies out of for the purpose of playing a friend.

Let them paint one of your models, even if its a janky one that you didn't put together quit right and/or has been stepped on or whatever. Even if its a good one its not that hard to strip their inevitably shoddy first time paint job off later. Up until this far its pretty much cost nothing to let them try out the game and ensure that they'll actually like it. This is important, its like a free demo to a video game.

If they do find they like the game and either like or can tolerate the hobby side (people who enjoy the hobby and not the game are a different breed altogether) then they can start picking up models. START, not run out and buy a complete army. A battle force and a codex come in under 200 bucks not counting the ubiquitous discounts on internet and in many LGSs. If you're playing together they don't need a rulebook just yet. They'll be able to make a 500 pt army with minimal proxying. Yes, proxying. Its nice to have all painted GW approved models or whatever but for someone just starting out let them use quarters, paper rolls, and whatever else is roughly the size of whatever they want to try. Its good that they see painted armies but you cant require it of a new person.

Another couple hundred bucks can easily get you mini rulebook and bump you up over 1k points if you shop the deals. That's plenty to make the leap to playing strangers at the FLGS. Most people I know are glad to accommodate newer players. Most of us want the hobby to grow.

excellent points and ideas.

Thank you VanHallan.

From OP.