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 Formosa wrote:
Funnily enough I have started talking to bioware and ea to begin preliminary steps to see if I am able to licence the Ip for a miniatures game, this is very early and in all reality they may so no, but I'm willing to take the risk and try.

Thought I would share.

This sounds interesting. Have you ever produced or contributed to any games in the past? Ever worked for a notable company like Gamesworkshop, Privateer Press, Warlord Games, Gripping Beast? What calibre of sculptors have you got working with/for you, and what miniatures have they made in the past?

If you can come up with a game and miniature range comparable to something like Infinity then I'd be very interested.

@Ouze and Compel - Ahh yeah, I forgot about that bit

@Formosa - I'd love to see a Mass Effect miniatures range as well. I wouldn't do the gaming side, but I'd certainly be interested in collecting some miniatures if the sculpts were good, even if just for the nostalgia.

To be honest, this thread should be re-named the 'Mass Effect appreciation thread - there's just too much win in all 3 games for us to confine ourselves to ME3

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
Funnily enough I have started talking to bioware and ea to begin preliminary steps to see if I am able to licence the Ip for a miniatures game, this is very early and in all reality they may so no, but I'm willing to take the risk and try.

Thought I would share.

This sounds interesting. Have you ever produced or contributed to any games in the past? Ever worked for a notable company like Gamesworkshop, Privateer Press, Warlord Games, Gripping Beast? What calibre of sculptors ha@ve you got working with/for you, and what miniatures have they made in the past?

If you can come up with a game and miniature range comparable to something like Infinity then I'd be very interested.

I have been doing gw for 26 years and do multiple systems including infinity. So I have alot of first hand experience in practice, something I have found severely lacking in several game systems over the decades, this is very preliminary work I'm doing at the moment and I am talking to several notable sculptors who are interested (mainly due to being long term friends), first and foremost I need to get through the legalities of acquiring a licence to the miniatures as if that does not work then nothing else will follow, thankfully I have a legal background so that will cost very little in real terms.

As of yet I have several ideas that I have pitched around and will happily share through proper channels when we have something more solid.

"Doing" models as a hobby is very different from actually having or working for a company.

No offense, but I would rather see a company like Corvus Belli or GW get the license than a no-name.

 Formosa wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
Funnily enough I have started talking to bioware and ea to begin preliminary steps to see if I am able to licence the Ip for a miniatures game, this is very early and in all reality they may so no, but I'm willing to take the risk and try.

Thought I would share.

This sounds interesting. Have you ever produced or contributed to any games in the past? Ever worked for a notable company like Gamesworkshop, Privateer Press, Warlord Games, Gripping Beast? What calibre of sculptors ha@ve you got working with/for you, and what miniatures have they made in the past?

If you can come up with a game and miniature range comparable to something like Infinity then I'd be very interested.

I have been doing gw for 26 years and do multiple systems including infinity. So I have alot of first hand experience in practice, something I have found severely lacking in several game systems over the decades, this is very preliminary work I'm doing at the moment and I am talking to several notable sculptors who are interested (mainly due to being long term friends), first and foremost I need to get through the legalities of acquiring a licence to the miniatures as if that does not work then nothing else will follow, thankfully I have a legal background so that will cost very little in real terms.

As of yet I have several ideas that I have pitched around and will happily share through proper channels when we have something more solid.

Well its certainly ambitious. EA is a big Company, and Mass Effect is a popular and well known franchise. Best of luck to you.

You could argue the same for DC and Marvel, yet Knight Models managed to get licenses from both of them, *at the same time*.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Formosa wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
Funnily enough I have started talking to bioware and ea to begin preliminary steps to see if I am able to licence the Ip for a miniatures game, this is very early and in all reality they may so no, but I'm willing to take the risk and try.

Thought I would share.

This sounds interesting. Have you ever produced or contributed to any games in the past? Ever worked for a notable company like Gamesworkshop, Privateer Press, Warlord Games, Gripping Beast? What calibre of sculptors ha@ve you got working with/for you, and what miniatures have they made in the past?

If you can come up with a game and miniature range comparable to something like Infinity then I'd be very interested.

I have been doing gw for 26 years and do multiple systems including infinity. So I have alot of first hand experience in practice, something I have found severely lacking in several game systems over the decades, this is very preliminary work I'm doing at the moment and I am talking to several notable sculptors who are interested (mainly due to being long term friends), first and foremost I need to get through the legalities of acquiring a licence to the miniatures as if that does not work then nothing else will follow, thankfully I have a legal background so that will cost very little in real terms.

As of yet I have several ideas that I have pitched around and will happily share through proper channels when we have something more solid.

Well its certainly ambitious. EA is a big Company, and Mass Effect is a popular and well known franchise. Best of luck to you.

Exactly, who knows it might even work

Have they switched off Mass Effect 3's multiplayer now?

I decided to boot it up just there to have a look again and all of a sudden it's asking me for an online pass.

 Compel wrote:
You could argue the same for DC and Marvel, yet Knight Models managed to get licenses from both of them, *at the same time*.

Different story entirely. Knight models has been established in the field for quite some time with some big licenses(Star Wars before they had DC/Marvel...interestingly though the Star Wars one has seemingly lapsed)--and it's only recently that they have been starting to get into making games with the "Arkham" games.

If EA was looking for a company, I think it far more likely they would find either a smaller company with high quality products(Corvus Belli) that they can invest into heavily and expand, with EA owning a stake of the company. The other option is to use an established company with quality products and in-house manufacturing like GW or Mantic or Privateer Press.

With that said, and there definitely being at least one Mass Effect game in the works now? They will probably be looking for one that they can have things ready by the time the new game comes out.


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 Compel wrote:
Have they switched off Mass Effect 3's multiplayer now?

I decided to boot it up just there to have a look again and all of a sudden it's asking me for an online pass.

The multiplayer is not slated to turn off until November.

There was a known bug with the online pass thing but I can't remember the specifics of it.

Nah it's still there, online pass is free

Cheers, I'm pestering Online Support now.

I was wanting multiplayer up so I can mess with my paint scheme choices for Deadzone's The Survivor.


Well, partial success. I can play multiplayer again, however I'm now getting an annoying popup each time I launch the game.

Your pass is locked to another account looks like, 're download it on your current account?

 Compel wrote:
Have they switched off Mass Effect 3's multiplayer now?

I decided to boot it up just there to have a look again and all of a sudden it's asking me for an online pass.

No, it still works. Check your box for the Online Pass Code. Every copy of the game bought new should have a code.

Ah, that's the trick, from my understanding. - The PC version shouldn't have had an Online Pass in the first place. That was a bug.

It's just, in the process of them fixing this.... Another bug cropped up.

In short, they completely ballsed it up, made it worse and I'm now redownloading and reinstalling the whole thing in the faint hope that it'll actually help.

Really gotta download all the ME3 DLC sometime. Did an epic playthough through the trilogy with all of the ME1 and ME2 DLC, but still gotta do one last complete run of 3 to cap things off. The Citadel DLC especially looks like a lot of fun.

As for my two-cents on the ending, I'll say I preferred the extended ending. The original one jsut left me feeling empty and unfufilled. It was still a damn epic build-up, but I felt like the original ending just took the edge off of it. The new one gave some closure, you get to see how your choices impact the galaxy and how it all begins to rebuild.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Soooo...Anyone believe in the Indoctrination theory?

Nah. I recall that it's pretty much debunked via ingame dialogue. Remember when you go to that temple on Thessia, and find the Prothean VI? The VI is willing to talk to you, but when Leng and his minions show up, it says something like "indoctrinated presence detected". Now, why wouldn't it have said that about Shepard, were he/she indoctrinated?

 kitch102 wrote:
So here's a question: what armour did you guys run?

Default armour all the way, man. Though with the helmet on.

 Warpig1815 wrote:
Liara Romanced - Didn't want to, but as I like to explore all conversations options, I mistakenly got 'locked into' that route.

Weirdly, it's actually very hard to escape romancing somebody in an ME1 save that's carried over to ME2. From what I've heard, the only prequisite is talking to a romance option a lot.

 Ouze wrote:

Spoiler:

Her dialogue is funnier if you've carried your save over and punched her the previous two times. When she dodges, she says something like "not this time, you military brute!", as if she'd anticipated that happening again and had prepared.

I think by the time I was at Mass Effect 2 and 3, I had moved onto playing 'hardcore' mode (not insanity, wasn't quite that err... insane) as an Infiltrator. The only way I could even half pull that off, wasn't loading up the shield items. Heck no, they weren't any help at all. It was going all out onto Headshot, Weapon damage then power buffs.

If somethings dead, it isn't shooting you to take away your shield.

 Troike wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Soooo...Anyone believe in the Indoctrination theory?

Nah. I recall that it's pretty much debunked via ingame dialogue. Remember when you go to that temple on Thessia, and find the Prothean VI? The VI is willing to talk to you, but when Leng and his minions show up, it says something like "indoctrinated presence detected". Now, why wouldn't it have said that about Shepard, were he/she indoctrinated?

Maybe the Indoctrination wasn't advanced enough, or just hadn't taken hold yet when Shepard visited Thessia.

Whether you believe that Shepard was successfully indoctrinated or not, you've got to admit that certain aspects of the ending do match the known symptoms of Indoctrination, so the Reapers were at the very least attempting to Indoctrinate Shepard.

Shepard entered the Crucible first, yet somehow Anderson managed to get ahead of her.
The bizarre encounter with TIM.
The "ghostly presences manifesting as oily black shadows".
Shepard's inconsistent injuries.
The Destroy ending when Shepard's gunshot wound seems to spontaneously heal and Shepard stops limping and strides confidently forward shooting the power conduit.
Shepard apparently waking up in the rubble in the Destroy ending despite the Catalyst asserting that all Synthetics would die, including the "mostly synthetic Shepard".


There are/were so many plot holes, inconsistencies and vagaries in the (original?) ending that it was either bad inconsistent writing, or clever writing with multiple layers of meaning and symbolism, open to multiple interpretations - an ending akin to that of Lost and Inception.

I get the impression that Bioware initially intended for a vague, open ended Ending to the story (Was Shepard Indoctrinated? Was the Catalyst telling the truth? How much of the ending was real?) but then changed their minds or someone high up overruled them. Indoctrination was an interesting and mind bending concept, but seems to have been brushed aside at the eleventh hour.

Or maybe your pet theory really isn't all that great.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Maybe the Indoctrination wasn't advanced enough, or just hadn't taken hold yet when Shepard visited Thessia.

Eh, I don't know. If it was going to, you'd think it would have by then. I don't recall Shepard being directly exposed to any more Reaper tech following Thessia.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Whether you believe that Shepard was successfully indoctrinated or not, you've got to admit that certain aspects of the ending do match the known symptoms of Indoctrination

Not necessarily. I think that the reasons you cite could just have easily been creative choices for effect or simple oversights. Regardless, probably best we agree to disagree on it.

 Melissia wrote:
Or maybe your pet theory really isn't all that great.

Ok then. Please tell us more about how Shepard is inexplicably immune to Indoctrination, seeing as you know everything.


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 Troike wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Maybe the Indoctrination wasn't advanced enough, or just hadn't taken hold yet when Shepard visited Thessia.

Eh, I don't know. If it was going to, you'd think it would have by then. I don't recall Shepard being directly exposed to any more Reaper tech following Thessia.

You don't regard coming face to face with the Catalyst, the supreme controlling intelligence of the entire Reaper race as an example of Shepard being exposed to Reaper tech?

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Whether you believe that Shepard was successfully indoctrinated or not, you've got to admit that certain aspects of the ending do match the known symptoms of Indoctrination

Not necessarily. I think that the reasons you cite could just have easily been creative choices for effect or simple oversights. Regardless, probably best we agree to disagree on it.

Christ, how many times does it have to be said before it gets through people's skulls?

The symptoms of Indoctrination are explicitly stated in-game, in the Codex. Shepard exhibits these symptoms.

Ghostly presences manifesting as oily black shadows.
Alien voices in the head.

Do you seriously think its just coincidence that Shepard several of the symptoms of Indoctrination? If that really is just creative choices for effect, then its poor writing and a sign of internal inconsistencies within the games Lore. The Right Hand not knowing what The Left Hand is doing.

I've already granted that its unlikely that Shepard was successfully Indoctrinated, but can you two not grant that the Reapers were attempting to Indoctrinate Shepard, given that she exhibits the symptoms?

Its a FACT.

The Codex says "X" and "Y".
Shepard Exhibits "X" and "Y".

If the Mass Effect Universe's Lore has any value and significance at all, then it is clear that Shepard was being attacked by the Indoctrination process during the Ending sequence. The only issue that is debateable is whether or not the Indoctrination succeeded, or whether Shepard was able to resist it.

Jeez, do you guys just never read the in-game Codex?

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
[Shepard is inexplicably immune to Indoctrination, seeing as you know everything.

This is just my own speculation that's just occurred to me, but IIRC, Shepard wasn't exposed to any sources of Reaper indoctrination for an extended period, right? I recall that in ME2. those Cerberus operatives were hanging around on that dead Reaper for a while before they got indoctrinated. So it could be that Shepard wasn't exposed enough to be affected.

 Troike wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
[Shepard is inexplicably immune to Indoctrination, seeing as you know everything.

This is just my own speculation that's just occurred to me, but IIRC, Shepard wasn't exposed to any sources of Reaper indoctrination for an extended period, right? I recall that in ME2. those Cerberus operatives were hanging around on that dead Reaper for a while before they got indoctrinated. So it could be that Shepard wasn't exposed enough to be affected.

Probably. But her exposure certainly seems to have built up to the point that the Reapers were able to begin attacking her mind and attempt to Indoctrinate her by the time she arrived on the Crucible and met with the Catalyst. In which case, it was a desperate last ditch attempt by the Reapers to stop Shepard through Indoctrination.


I just don't get why some people think Indoctrination is something that couldn't possibly affect Shepard, as though shes so strong that she has an inexplicable immunity. To me, theres an ongoing but subtle theme through ME3 of Shepard resisting Indoctrination and fighting to retain her humanity. The story IMO is better, and Shepard more heroic, if she isn't immune to Reaper influence and has to struggle and fight to resist Indoctrination just like everyone else. It strikes me as too Video Gamey for the protagonist to be the lone sapient creature in the Galaxy to be immune to it.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
You don't regard coming face to face with the Catalyst, the supreme controlling intelligence of the entire Reaper race as an example of Shepard being exposed to Reaper tech?

Not really, since I don't think it would necessarily have given itself the indoctrination effect, nor had motive to use it.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
The symptoms of Indoctrination are explicitly stated in-game, in the Codex.

Ghostly presences manifesting as oily black shadows.
Alien voices in the head.

Did some googling, and those happen when you're at the final meeting with TIM, right? Those could have just been there to act as cues to his deteriorated state of mind, or his exerting control over Shepard and Anderson. It could be interpreted as matching the stated symptoms of indoctrination, yes, but I don't think that they're definite signs.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
grant that the Reapers were attempting to Indoctrinate Shepard

I'll grant that they would have wanted to, sure, but it's my own view that they were unsuccessful.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
The symptoms of Indoctrination are explicitly stated in-game, in the Codex.

Ghostly presences manifesting as oily black shadows.
Alien voices in the head.

Did some googling, and those happen when you're at the final meeting with TIM, right? Those could have just been there to act as cues to his deteriorated state of mind, or his exerting control over Shepard and Anderson. It could be interpreted as matching the stated symptoms of indoctrination, yes, but I don't think that they're definite signs.

Well then, why didn't they use different effects and symptoms to represent his deteriorated state of mind? Why use the symptoms that are explicity stated in-game to be signs of Indoctrination?

The ghostly presences/oily shadows are also present in the nightmares throughout the game.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
grant that the Reapers were attempting to Indoctrinate Shepard

I'll grant that they would have wanted to, sure, but it's my own view that they were unsuccessful.

Thats what I'm saying. At the End on the Crucible, the Reapers were making a last ditch attempt to break through Shepards mental defences and Indoctrinate her. And as such, I think the Ending was intended to be vague and open-ended, open to multiple interpretations like Lost and Inception.


But some people seem to think the in-game Lore is irrelevant, and that Shepard is immune to a process that threatens all sapient races in the Galaxy.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Or maybe your pet theory really isn't all that great.

Ok then. Please tell us more about how Shepard is inexplicably immune to Indoctrination, seeing as you know everything.

Go learn to read, then go back and read my posts, and you'll find that I never made that claim.

You present a false dichotomy, and given you active attempts to disrespect anyone who disagrees with you, I don't feel any obligation to tell you any more than that.

You know, I really enjoyed the Mako. I know a lot of people didn't, but I did.

 Ouze wrote:
You know, I really enjoyed the Mako. I know a lot of people didn't, but I did.

Yeah, the Mako was nice. It was the repetitiveness of the maps that weren't so hot, really.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
to the point that the Reapers were able to begin attacking her mind and attempt to Indoctrinate her by the time she arrived on the Crucible and met with the Catalyst. In which case, it was a desperate last ditch attempt by the Reapers to stop Shepard through Indoctrination.

Though to be fair, all we see is TIM exerting mental control over them, and he's trying to make them kill themselves/join his own cause. We don't know that he himself can indoctrinate others.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
I just don't get why some people think Indoctrination is something that couldn't possibly affect Shepard, as though shes so strong that she has an inexplicable immunity.

It could be that some are more resistant to it. As we see throughout, sufficient willpower can grant temporary immunity to it. And, as I said, it could be that Shepard just wasn't exposed enough anyway.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
The story IMO is better, and Shepard more heroic, if she isn't immune to Reaper influence and has to struggle and fight to resist Indoctrination just like everyone else. It strikes me as too Video Gamey for the protagonist to be immune.

Eh, IMO, Shepard being indoctrinated would be a bit of a let-down. The Mass Effect series does, of course, have a lot of emphasis on choice. To say that your character was in fact being influenced by an external force rather than their own will for the duration would kind subvert the freedom of it all, for me, that last epic choice not actually being yours to make. Leaving it so ambigous would also be a bit of a negative point to it. Okay, fair enough if some NPCs had dropped hints before, like worrying about whether Shepard had been indoctrinated, but to leave it as something that's only very lightly implied and which the supposed hints themselves are debatable seems way too minor for such a major thing.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:
Well then, why didn't they use different effects and symptoms to represent his deteriorated state of mind? Why use the symptoms that are explicity stated in-game to be signs of Indoctrination?

As I said, possibly an oversight. Those things also work well for making the atmosphere creepy/threatening, and they're not really all that specific. Oily shadows work well for a vague, weird dreamscape and the voices are good signs of madness or mental attack.

 Ouze wrote:
You know, I really enjoyed the Mako. I know a lot of people didn't, but I did.

Me too! I loved driving around on those planets, exploring all over and blasting enemies with the Mako's cannon. I especially enjoyed the random Thresher Maw attacks. Any set of debris you came across could be a trap laid by a Thresher. Those encounters were always especially fitting, since my main Shepard had the background where they survive a Thresher attack.

 Melissia wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Or maybe your pet theory really isn't all that great.

Ok then. Please tell us more about how Shepard is inexplicably immune to Indoctrination, seeing as you know everything.

Go learn to read, then go back and read my posts, and you'll find that I never made that claim.

You present a false dichotomy, and given you active attempts to disrespect anyone who disagrees with you, I don't feel any obligation to tell you any more than that.

No. You're projecting your own rudeness and disrespect. It was your snarky one liner that completely ignored my points which prompted my ill tempered response to you. This only became an argument when you joined it. Before your remark, it was a civil debate between people who simply disagreed. Do you not see the irony in simultaneously accusing someone of "disrespecting anyone who agrees with you" and telling them to "learn to read" ?

If you want to criticise someone for being disrespectful, its probably best not to be disrespectful yourself.


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 Melissia wrote:

 Ouze wrote:
You know, I really enjoyed the Mako. I know a lot of people didn't, but I did.

Yeah, the Mako was nice. It was the repetitiveness of the maps that weren't so hot, really.

I liked the Mako. I absolutely loathed the auto-generated terrain used for side missions, it was really lazy game design. The maps used in the main storyline missions used terrain that was deliberately designed, and so the gameplay flowed much better.

I think I wasted hours upon hours struggling to climb up sheer cliffs, taking shortcuts and getting trapped in a valley with no way out.

But I guess the flip side is that I also spent hours launching myself off of mountains shouting "Weeeeeeeeeeeee!!!" I probably got more Game Over screens as a result of destroying my Mako on impact with the ground than I did due to enemy action...

Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:Christ, how many times does it have to be said before it gets through people's skulls?
The symptoms of Indoctrination are explicitly stated in-game, in the Codex. Shepard exhibits these symptoms.

Or Shepard simply exhibits the aforementioned symptoms of PTSD, which would be a rather human thing to experience given what she/he went through. And would be more fitting than the hero being mind-controlled into ... into what, exactly? Into not showing us what happens? What sort of crappy ending would that be?

If you do agree (though I don't think it is necessary that we actually agree on an ultimate explanation or solution, given how much depends on interpretation here) that "its unlikely that Shepard was successfully Indoctrinated", then why is everyone still argueing?

Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:The ghostly presences/oily shadows are also present in the nightmares throughout the game.

Fairly sure Shep already had nightmares before Thessia ... to tie into Troike's interesting remark regarding the VI's ability to detect indoctrination.

In this sense, perhaps the oily shadows are simply a reflection of Shepard's sanity?

Also, +1 for the Mako.