Can Warhammer 40k be as big as Star Wars

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**Jayden63**

Waaaghpower wrote:
Jayden, your analysis has problems.
Flash Gordon came out after Star Wars, and looked so gawd-awful because they wanted it to be as cheesy as possible. (They had friggin QUEEN write the theme.)

Also, plenty of movies had music all over the place pre-Star Wars, it just wasn't as commonplace.

Actually, I was thinking of the old Flash Gordon black and white from the 30-40s. They had three serial films back then. As for sound, think African Queen, Steve McQueens Bullitt, heck even all the old Bond films. These are all "top" films and the soundtrack was lacking through a lot of the movie. But look at anything made now, or even in the past 20 years. It is a totally different thought process.

**Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl**

Psienesis wrote:
There's very few Hollywood movies with a strong female lead.

However, there is no lack of support character that are Action Girls or Faux Action Girls. Also, you kind of missed the whole Alien series in your list. And both Tarantino and Rodriguez movies from Grindhouse. And, I guess, a bunch of others.

ashcroft wrote:
The Gaunt's Ghosts books would probably be the most adaptation-friendly material, seeing as they actually have identifiable, even sympathetic characters that an audience can relate to - but it achieves that mostly by keeping the more iconic elements of the setting - i.e. the Space Marines - more or less out of the action.

Actually, I would say what we actually need is everyone's favorite HERO OF THE IMPERIUM, commissar Ciaphas Cain !

**Furyou Miko**

Cain might do it, but it wouldn't be the 40k we know and love.

Cain is a good look at how an American writer, coming fresh to the setting, might change it for American audiences. Sandy Mitchell was the first American BL writer, and the differences between his vision of 40k and the standard one are notable and significant.

Sigh. Thing is, true 40k is just too... British to be a massive Hollywood hit. There are too many references and jokes that just fly over other audiences' heads, while the infusion of American dayly culture through TV programs and the like means that American cultural references can be understood by people in most of the world.

Apart from James Bond, which is well enough established to have its own fan culture, how many big-name British movies do you know?

**Kilkrazy**

Mojo1jojo wrote:
So I was looking around and did not see anyone talk about this topic. Seeing how Star Wars evolved I was wondering if Warhammer 40k could do the same and if so why it hasn't happen already. Its seems that there is plenty of story content and with new graphic technology Warhammer 40k could make some ground breaking movies, at least its better then all these throw backs and horrible movies coming out today.

Star Wars is grounded on faith, hope, hard work, personal growth, and redemption, leading to the triumph of good over evil.

The whole thrust of the 40K story is an ultimately futile struggle to prop up an evil empire whose only virtue is that the alternatives are claimed to be worse.

Clearly such a background cannot have wide appeal.

**Tyranno**

60mm wrote:That would require GW to do a lot of things right . . . not their area of expertise.

Much bigger problem with Hollywood than with Games Workshop

Psienesis wrote:It's not impossible, it's just that the current crop of writers and directors working in Hollywood aren't very good at that task, and studios aren't expecting it, because movies have been declining in overall popularity in favor of television or DVD offerings.

I'd be slighty more cynical and suggest Hollywood would rather produce disposable movies because if everything they make sucks, people will start to think they're actually watching good movies.

Psienesis wrote:As far as "no CGI" goes... not sure how you would show a Psyker throwing lightning bolts or a ship traveling through the Immaterium without CGI. There's no way to do that with practical effects without looking like some Ed Wood film.

CGI dates fast. It would, quite soon, become pretty lame itself.

Psienesis wrote:There's very few Hollywood movies with a strong female lead.

Yet, whenever some female character shows up and actually fights, it leaves me thinking "great, another Buffy clone". It could only avoid being snark bait through avoiding any "sexy" element.

Psienesis wrote:You know why romantic triangles are cliche? Because they drive plot, they generate interest, they get people emotionally invested in the characters and relationships, and they have a proven track record in winning fans.

"Its successful so we're going to kepp doing it" - In other words, a fallback for lazy writers who repeat the same thing over and over rather than put effort into a character-driven story.

**dantay_xv**

thenoobbomb wrote:
Eldarain wrote:
1.HBO Eisenhorn series.
2.Profit and widespread exposure.

... but there is no sex in 40K, what would HBO have to film then?

Well, in Eisenhorn, Ravenor is in a relationship with the swordswoman, it is also alluded to that Eisenhorn has attempted to have a relationship or atleast has romantic feelings to Bequin, but can do nothing about it because he has psychic powers and she is an untouchable.... Eisenhorn caught naked by his hot female pilot as he tries to catch an intruder. Eisenhorn in bed with Bequin while disguised as 'twists' during an investigation...

Ravenors maiming and the loss of his gf, The deaths of his followers in book 3 and Bequin in statsis... Maybe not all about sex, but enough to keep it interesting plus Abnett has a way of making characters believable

Follow up with Ravenor series, dealing with the issues there... his follower havijng cancer, his interrogator fighting his inner daemon etc.... Moving into a small story involving the Grey Knights, basedon Emperors gift...

Ultramarines was gak, but the universe isnt just Space Marines, and even in some books they are almost human... take Brothers of the snake (Abnett gain) for an example.

Then you have Gaunts Ghosts.... loss of a world, fighting adversity and prejudice, love, family, loss terror... who wouldnt love to see that made into a series orset of movies... and you can use it to introduce other races as offshoots..

And as IG arent transhuman, not too much CGI needed

Maybe not as big as starwars but movies could be done, with the correct writer, BL involvement and studio backing.

BTW does anybody know when Lord Inquisitor will be done?

**thenoobbomb**

Hey, I can suddenly see an Eisenhorn series made!

**Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl**

Furyou Miko wrote:
Cain might do it, but it wouldn't be the 40k we know and love.

It would be a 40k that I know and love

. Even though it features sisters of battle that are not very sistery

.

**kronk**

As popular as Star Wars? Nah.

More popular than it is? Certainly.

**Deuce11**

Waaaghpower wrote:
This could technically happen, but it's unlikely. Star Wars succeeded as a pop culture phenomenon, with revolutionary visuals and almost a complete reinvention of a genre. No 'Sci-fi Lite' movies existed at the time, excluding low-budget serials from the early days of cinema. The only sci-fi in existence was hard political commentary and speculative fiction, at least for the most part.
Star Wars broke a huge amount of ground by making Science Fiction accessible to everyone, with a fairly simple but well-written and acted plot, new concepts, and a fun movie that didn't require a lot of thought. Nothing like it had ever come before, and so it took the world by storm with it's innovation and unique style. Everything since then has been succesful mainly through inertia. There is a lot of bad Star Wars. There is a lot of good Star Wars. But the bad can be ignored because of it's mere weight as a cultural icon, and it has enough social impact and enough people know about it to keep it running for years or even decades after the last good piece of SW fiction is written.

40k doesn't have that. Dune came out half a century ago. Nobody will be taken by surprise by 40k, any more than they will be caught off guard by a turtle. Regardless of quality, 40k simply doesn't have the shock or capability to build up the social inertia to become a widespread phenomenon like Star Wars.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
...
I've thought way too much about this.

such a good argument. I reluctantly agree only because I would love to see a succesful transition to the big screen.

IF it could be done, i think the filmmakers would have to be given a lot of creative license so it works with a wider audience.

**Formosa**

I love a strong female lead as long as its not Charlie's angels and more briene of tarth (game of thrones woman), she is so badass that I ended up watching the show to see what happened to her, she is big and battle hardened and I could see her knocking men around like children, not some 110lb super model that one punches a 300lb across the room... Hate that particular meme.

**Deuce11**

KorPhaeron77 wrote:I don't think it would really work as a movie. You see Star Wars had one major plot that had a start a middle and an end. Then the universe just expanded around that main event, like books, comic books, video games, the prequel movies etc. The problem with 40k is that there is no "central storyline" Sure their are tons of big events but if you made a direct comparison, the 40k timeline only goes up to about the same plot advancement as just after the battle of Hoth in Empire. In that, the "good" guys have just been struck a major blow (eye of terror campaign) we lack a "happy ending" where Abaddon is killed and Chaos defeated.

True you could use any number of enclosed story lines like the Nightlords Trilogy or Eisenhorn or any of the many plot lines. The problem is that almost all 40k books assume the reader is in some way familiar with the background, so it's very difficult to do like a total introduction without ruining the story.

The Horus Heresy doesn't work because as with most prequels, a lot of the stories work on irony or foreshadowing, assuming that the reader knows what the 40k world will end up like. Plus it is wayyyyy too big to ever be a reality. It took nearly 10 years to turn the 7 Harry Potter books into a movie. The HH series is probably going to run into the region of 35/40 novels before it's done, if it's ever done.

I think the best way to make 40k into a popular media would be like an animated tv series. Something like Dragon Ball Z, where you have these huge storylines that go on for weeks and weeks and then when one "saga" is over, move onto the next one. But even that would be a massive stretch. To be honest I think we should be greatful that we are staying as a niche, where all the wacky hobby goings on can continue and not have to conform to whatever would draw in the the greater public.

I mean look at a Hollywood execs mind if this was proposed to them:
"So the main character is a 7 foot tall killing machine in power armour? Awesome, who's his love interest? Oh what wait...they're A sexual...mmm can't he have a girlfriend? What about one of those Sisters of Battle? Yeah that works, Ok So Captain Bloggs falls in love with Sister Needsrescuing and they're fighting these evil superhumans for the fate of the galaxy and what's that?...The bad guys win? The good guys are actually a dictatorship too? No we can't have that. Ok so change it so the Space Marine saves the girl, kills the big bad, delivers a cheeseball quotable phrase, Maybe he makes fun of the bad guy's lack of arms...I don't know, I'm not the writer, we're just shooting ideas. And they all live happily ever after. Huh? Grimdark, nah audiences won't like that, Oh but we do like the fact that you already jacked up the prices on the merch to promote the movie...oh those are the regular prices? Wow, how is this even a thing?"

Breng77 wrote:Simply put, NO. Most successful movies and shows are based around characters. Something 40k really lacks (you could try to do specific BL novels as a move or something.) The larger issue though is that 40k is a setting....not a story.

You would need to build a story around characters, and honestly space marines are not a great place for deep characters. SO you probably end up tiny window into a small part of the world.

I actually think an Inquisition (Dark Heresy) or Rouge Trader themed show in the setting has more possibilty of success than one based in the formal 40k setting. But even that being successful is a stretch.

You fix this by centering around the rise and fall of Horus. The Horus Heresy arc has enough traditional cinematic elements to forge a screenplay around.

**Hollismason**

The source material would have to be drastically altered as there are no "good" guys in 40k.

**Furyou Miko**

Tyranno wrote:

Yet, whenever some female character shows up and actually fights, it leaves me thinking "great, another Buffy clone". It could only avoid being snark bait through avoiding any "sexy" element.

Yes, because yet another Bruce Willis/Sylvester Stallone/Steven Seagal/Arnold Swarzenegger/whatever clone is so much better.

Why do female characters have to be better than one of the best strong characters of all time, when male protagonists can just fit the mold and be boring?

**Breng77**

Deuce11 wrote:
KorPhaeron77 wrote:

Breng77 wrote:Simply put, NO. Most successful movies and shows are based around characters. Something 40k really lacks (you could try to do specific BL novels as a move or something.) The larger issue though is that 40k is a setting....not a story.

You would need to build a story around characters, and honestly space marines are not a great place for deep characters. SO you probably end up tiny window into a small part of the world.

I actually think an Inquisition (Dark Heresy) or Rouge Trader themed show in the setting has more possibilty of success than one based in the formal 40k setting. But even that being successful is a stretch.

You fix this by centering around the rise and fall of Horus. The Horus Heresy arc has enough traditional cinematic elements to forge a screenplay around.

Which would require multiple movies to accomplish. One film is not enough to tell the story at all. You would need a film depicting Horus prior to the coming of the emporer (his rise to glory etc, developing him as a character that people actually care about.) ending with the arrival of the emporer (this could happen mid way, but we still need the movie to depict him as a good guy). Then a film depicting him on the Great Crusade, setting up a fall perhaps at the end of this second movie.

Essentially you would need to set up a scenario where people actually care about the fall of Horus. Something even Star Wars (in movies at least) failed to do with Vader.

**techsoldaten**

It will never happen, not because of the IP but because GW does so much to alienate their customers.

There are so many people I know who picked up the game as teenagers, stopped playing while they were in college, then came back when they had a real job / life settled down.

Not being able to keep an audience of 21 - 34 year olds engaged with your brand kills this idea.

**Ratius**

I mean look at a Hollywood execs mind if this was proposed to them:
"So the main character is a 7 foot tall killing machine in power armour? Awesome, who's his love interest? Oh what wait...they're A sexual...mmm can't he have a girlfriend? What about one of those Sisters of Battle? Yeah that works, Ok So Captain Bloggs falls in love with Sister Needsrescuing and they're fighting these evil superhumans for the fate of the galaxy and what's that?...The bad guys win? The good guys are actually a dictatorship too? No we can't have that. Ok so change it so the Space Marine saves the girl, kills the big bad, delivers a cheeseball quotable phrase, Maybe he makes fun of the bad guy's lack of arms...I don't know, I'm not the writer, we're just shooting ideas. And they all live happily ever after. Huh? Grimdark, nah audiences won't like that, Oh but we do like the fact that you already jacked up the prices on the merch to promote the movie...oh those are the regular prices? Wow, how is this even a thing?"

Thank you for the best laugh of my day so far.
Brilliant

**Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl**

Hollismason wrote:
The source material would have to be drastically altered as there are no "good" guys in 40k.

Except Ciaphas Cain. He is pretty damn good !

Furyou Miko wrote:
Why do female characters have to be better than one of the best strong characters of all time, when male protagonists can just fit the mold and be boring?

So, no male character, no female character.
I totally propose we use a tire as the main character. It was done before, and the movie was awesome. We need more tire as main characters. I will henceforth only watch movies that pass the tire version of the Bechdel test !

**CthuluIsSpy**

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Hollismason wrote:
The source material would have to be drastically altered as there are no "good" guys in 40k.

Except Ciaphas Cain. He is pretty damn good !

Furyou Miko wrote:
Why do female characters have to be better than one of the best strong characters of all time, when male protagonists can just fit the mold and be boring?

So, no male character, no female character.
I totally propose we use a tire as the main character. It was done before, and the movie was awesome. We need more tire as main characters. I will henceforth only watch movies that pass the tire version of the Bechdel test !

A grot should be a main character.

That would be a hilarious movie.

**Tyranno**

Hollismason wrote:The source material would have to be drastically altered as there are no "good" guys in 40k.

"No good guys" is a wide alternative fan interpretation.

Imperium of Man being the "good guys" is 40K canon.

No matter how many people take the fan interpretation that there's no "good guys", its still not canon.

Besides, the Imperium of Man is... a bit poticially incorrect. Its nowhere near 1% as bad as the evil factions.

Furthermore, the good guys being not that good only highlights how dire circumstances are in the setting.

Furyou Miko wrote:
Why do female characters have to be better than one of the best strong characters of all time, when male protagonists can just fit the mold and be boring?

Because frankly, at Buffy's highest point, Buffy clones were everywhere, and written by writers far less talented and what was in Buffy for logical reasons only existed in the imitators' franchise because Buffy did it.

Its like asking, "why isn't Bullet Time cool anymore?" Once Bullet Time was everywhere, by being everywhere it was metaphorically castrated.

Furthermore, its completely possibly to portray an a female warrior who doesn't emulate Buffy, but that would require effort/vision/ambition/imagination

**Psienesis**

Hollismason wrote:
The source material would have to be drastically altered as there are no "good" guys in 40k.

Riddick hasn't had that problem.

**Hollismason**

Yeah.. uh about Riddick...

No, it's just say it's hard to actually have the actual Imperium show up in medium. They're literal nationalistic fascists with strong under currents of literal xenophobia. It's like trying to make a heroic war movie about Nazi Germany.

They are not "good" guys. Seriously, they're evil. It's just Chaos is more evil than them.

**Furyou Miko**

Tyranno wrote:

Because frankly, at Buffy's highest point, Buffy clones were everywhere, and written by writers far less talented and what was in Buffy for logical reasons only existed in the imitators' franchise because Buffy did it.

Its like asking, "why isn't Bullet Time cool anymore?" Once Bullet Time was everywhere, by being everywhere it was metaphorically castrated.

Furthermore, its completely possibly to portray an a female warrior who doesn't emulate Buffy, but that would require effort/vision/ambition/imagination

Except, well, no, it's not.

If you want to go with the Matrix analogy, it's asking why Trinity isn't cool any more. A female protagonist should NOT be a gimmick! It should be an equally regarded option as a male protagonist!

Or are you saying that the Hunger Games aren't cool because their gimmick is that Katniss is a woman? Ignoring the whole latino/caucasian controversy.

**Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl**

Tyranno wrote:
Imperium of Man being the "good guys" is 40K canon.

There is no 40K canon, and there is certainly nowhere where the studio told all the Tau and Eldar players “Hey, your faction are not good guys, the Imperium that wants to exterminate them is !”. That would be a pretty dickish move. Really, there are bad guys and guys that are not all bad.

**Furyou Miko**

Yeah, the Imperium being good guys has never even been stated. Even in his deepest depths of fanboy mania, even Matt Ward never tried to state that the Ultramarines were good people.

**chaos0xomega**

Psienesis wrote:
Hollismason wrote:
The source material would have to be drastically altered as there are no "good" guys in 40k.

Riddick hasn't had that problem.

He doesn't have that problem, but he also doesn't have the problem of being anywhere near remotely as successful or as big as Star Wars (which is my attempt to cleverly say that you're comparing apples and oranges).

**Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl**

Hollismason wrote:
It's like trying to make a heroic war movie about Nazi Germany.

Because you do believe there are none ? There are some. I can name them. And after watching them, you will likely feel empathy toward the nazi party member protagonist, which actually existed. If you do not believe me, look for City of life and death, for instance.
(Okay, calling it heroic would be cheating. And it is not really about Germany. But it is still a war movie including an extremely sympathetic nazi character !)

**Tyranno**

Furyou Miko wrote:

A female protagonist should NOT be a gimmick! It should be an equally regarded option as a male protagonist!
.

The point isn't that a female protagonist is laughable - its that a Buffy-esque female protagonist is laughable. That archetype's time has been and gone; its dated.

There could be female, combat capable female protagonists who doesn't resemble the Buffy archetype. But that would require imagination and ambition, not just copying what someone else did.

**ashcroft**

Tyranno wrote:
Imperium of Man being the "good guys" is 40K canon.

Only in some material - such as Gaunt's Ghosts, which focuses on the war against the archenemy of the Imperium, and mostly avoids delving too deep into the darker side of the Imperium.

Mostly. Only in Death is something of an exception...

Spoiler:

Away from the (relatively) positive portrayal of the IoM in that series it only gets worse. Several of the early books of the Horus Heresy mention, almost in passing, the extermination of entire alien races, and whilst it would be reassuring to assume that all of those races were unremittingly hostile and therefore 'needed' to be destroyed it would also be a lie. The Diasporex only wanted to be left alone, and yet the human component of that civilisation is enslaved en masse, and the alien component exterminated. Nor can this act be blamed on Horus - it is the official policy of the IoM, as laid down by the Emperor himself.

"Suffer not the alien to live."

Think about what that really means for a moment, then ask yourself why there are no 'friendly' alien races within the worlds conquered/reclaimed by the Imperium of Man. It's not a part of the background that is often dwelled upon,but it is undeniably there.

Given that just about every sci-fi franchise from Star Wars to Star Trek to Mass Effect shows humanity living alongside (at least some) alien races in peace and friendship, and that irrational hatred of alien life is often painted as an allegory of contemporary racism, that alone would be a death blow for the chances of a truly accurate portrayal of the Imperium of Man to ever make it to mainstream screens.

**Hollismason**

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Hollismason wrote:
It's like trying to make a heroic war movie about Nazi Germany.

Because you do believe there are none ? There are some. I can name them. And after watching them, you will likely feel empathy toward the nazi party member protagonist, which actually existed. If you do not believe me, look for City of life and death, for instance.
(Okay, calling it heroic would be cheating. And it is not really about Germany. But it is still a war movie including an extremely sympathetic nazi character !)

Uhm. I think you have your movies backwards, that's a film about the Rape of Nanking and a member of the Nazi Party who protected citizens. It's not a heroic film about Waffen SS members kicking ass and taking names while snorting amphetamines and killing jews.

Seriously. The Imperium is a Nationalistic Fascist state run by the Church. Who commit Genocide on their own people for the good of the many.

The Space Marines are elite shock troops that are sent in to quell rebellions and are basically Ubermensch.

The Imperium is not a "good" thing.

The source material is incredibly dark to be almost impalpable , Now flip that with Star Wars with obvious good versus evil. I'm not saying it wouldn't work as a film series but it'd have to be basically about Rebels against the Imperium and Chaos.