PRIMARCHS - How did they all meet their end?

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**kerikhaos**

MasterSlowPoke wrote:
kerikhaos wrote:
cammy wrote:
for those who are intrested in legions 2 and 11

from the Sigillite audio book cover

What is that image suggesting? That that's a member of one of the lost chapters?

His throne has the numbers of the lost legions on the arm rests.

It's most likely if this guy is inquisition then he's one of the few that actually know their real history and what happened to them. If they actually have been obliterated as they claim. It's possible something else is running parallel with these guys and they haven't actually been destroyed. Otherwise why have the numbers engraved on a seat for gods sakes if they were to be stripped from record

**Envihon**

kerikhaos wrote:
MasterSlowPoke wrote:
kerikhaos wrote:
cammy wrote:
for those who are intrested in legions 2 and 11

from the Sigillite audio book cover

What is that image suggesting? That that's a member of one of the lost chapters?

His throne has the numbers of the lost legions on the arm rests.

It's most likely if this guy is inquisition then he's one of the few that actually know their real history and what happened to them. If they actually have been obliterated as they claim. It's possible something else is running parallel with these guys and they haven't actually been destroyed. Otherwise why have the numbers engraved on a seat for gods sakes if they were to be stripped from record

That "guy" is Malcador the Sigilite, he created the Inquisition and is one of the most powerful psykers known to man. He is also some how still alive in the 41st. In his right hand there, you can see his sigil which is the precursor to what would become the Inquisitorial Seal. The Sigilite audio drama to which that picture is a cover to, details him in the process of making the Inquisition. The stories that follow Garro after Isstavan V detail how Malcador made the Grey Knights. Malcador was also instrumental in making the primarchs and the Space Marines, which is also described in The Sigilite, so he knows what happened to the II and XI Legions so for whatever reason, he felt to inscribe their numbers into his throne. I want to know why too, so bad. GW could of just put it there as a taunt too.

**Psienesis**

He is also some how still alive in the 41st.

How and where? He disintegrated into dust when he vacated the Golden Throne to make way for the Emperor.

**Envihon**

Ah, you are right. My friend and I had a debate once and he swore that Malcador was still alive. I think he was confusing the fact that Malcador already was very old by the Horus Heresy.

**kerikhaos**

So he disintegrated on purpose or??? If on purpose then it's possible he's not actually gone then? So this guy was more powerful than the emperor in terms of psyche or second to him?

**MarsNZ**

Farseer Anath'lan wrote:
Johnson is stated to have been healed in the Dark Angels Codex. Might be the reason.

Oh, neat. So DA finally caught up then? 2e Ultramarine codex says the same about Gman. I think misguided irrational hatred for the Ultramarines was probably a more accurate answer.

**Envihon**

kerikhaos wrote:
So he disintegrated on purpose or??? If on purpose then it's possible he's not actually gone then? So this guy was more powerful than the emperor in terms of psyche or second to him?

Malcador was second to the Emperor in terms of Psychic ability. Basically, the Emperor was working on a human webway and originally he wanted Magnus to power it. When Magnus did what he did, the Emperor then wanted Malcador to take Magnus' place. Just being a regular human, his body couldn't take the psychic barrage from keeping the webway open. When Dorn came to switch the dying Emperor into the Golden Throne, when they took Malcador out his body turned to dust but he used the last of his strength to give to the Emperor to awaken him from the coma from the wounds sustained in battle with Horus.

Despite Malcador dying, his effect on the Imperium is huge.

**kerikhaos**

Envihon wrote:
kerikhaos wrote:
So he disintegrated on purpose or??? If on purpose then it's possible he's not actually gone then? So this guy was more powerful than the emperor in terms of psyche or second to him?

Malcador was second to the Emperor in terms of Psychic ability. Basically, the Emperor was working on a human webway and originally he wanted Magnus to power it. When Magnus did what he did, the Emperor then wanted Malcador to take Magnus' place. Just being a regular human, his body couldn't take the psychic barrage from keeping the webway open. When Dorn came to switch the dying Emperor into the Golden Throne, when they took Malcador out his body turned to dust but he used the last of his strength to give to the Emperor to awaken him from the coma from the wounds sustained in battle with Horus.

Despite Malcador dying, his effect on the Imperium is huge.

I didn't know this at all, it's very interesting. In fact I'm dying to know more on malcadors fluff. What was he in the beginning, why did he have such amazing psyche powers, how close was he to the emperor and probably most important where did he come from?

**Envihon**

kerikhaos wrote:
Envihon wrote:
kerikhaos wrote:
So he disintegrated on purpose or??? If on purpose then it's possible he's not actually gone then? So this guy was more powerful than the emperor in terms of psyche or second to him?

Malcador was second to the Emperor in terms of Psychic ability. Basically, the Emperor was working on a human webway and originally he wanted Magnus to power it. When Magnus did what he did, the Emperor then wanted Malcador to take Magnus' place. Just being a regular human, his body couldn't take the psychic barrage from keeping the webway open. When Dorn came to switch the dying Emperor into the Golden Throne, when they took Malcador out his body turned to dust but he used the last of his strength to give to the Emperor to awaken him from the coma from the wounds sustained in battle with Horus.

Despite Malcador dying, his effect on the Imperium is huge.

I didn't know this at all, it's very interesting. In fact I'm dying to know more on malcadors fluff. What was he in the beginning, why did he have such amazing psyche powers, how close was he to the emperor and probably most important where did he come from?

The origins of Malcador are as they usually are, mysterious. He was the Emperor's right hand man, able to act for the Emperor when the Emperor wasn't able to appear. He was second only to the Emperor and was tasked with directly from the Emperor to find "men of character, skill and determination" which was the start of the Imperial Inquisition and that is Malcador's real claim to fame. The Sigilite audio drama has him in it quite extensively as he interviews a covert op agent. Anything involving Garro after the Flight of Eisenstein will have Malcador at least referenced in it. It has been a great interest to me because the Inquisition is my favorite faction.

**kerikhaos**

Envihon wrote:
kerikhaos wrote:
Envihon wrote:
kerikhaos wrote:
So he disintegrated on purpose or??? If on purpose then it's possible he's not actually gone then? So this guy was more powerful than the emperor in terms of psyche or second to him?

Malcador was second to the Emperor in terms of Psychic ability. Basically, the Emperor was working on a human webway and originally he wanted Magnus to power it. When Magnus did what he did, the Emperor then wanted Malcador to take Magnus' place. Just being a regular human, his body couldn't take the psychic barrage from keeping the webway open. When Dorn came to switch the dying Emperor into the Golden Throne, when they took Malcador out his body turned to dust but he used the last of his strength to give to the Emperor to awaken him from the coma from the wounds sustained in battle with Horus.

Despite Malcador dying, his effect on the Imperium is huge.

I didn't know this at all, it's very interesting. In fact I'm dying to know more on malcadors fluff. What was he in the beginning, why did he have such amazing psyche powers, how close was he to the emperor and probably most important where did he come from?

The origins of Malcador are as they usually are, mysterious. He was the Emperor's right hand man, able to act for the Emperor when the Emperor wasn't able to appear. He was second only to the Emperor and was tasked with directly from the Emperor to find "men of character, skill and determination" which was the start of the Imperial Inquisition and that is Malcador's real claim to fame. The Sigilite audio drama has him in it quite extensively as he interviews a covert op agent. Anything involving Garro after the Flight of Eisenstein will have Malcador at least referenced in it. It has been a great interest to me because the Inquisition is my favorite faction.

Interesting, he was the right hand man obviously while the emperor was in human form? Was he around from the beginning during the emperors rise to dame or did he come along afterwards?

**Envihon**

kerikhaos wrote:
Envihon wrote:
kerikhaos wrote:
Envihon wrote:
kerikhaos wrote:
So he disintegrated on purpose or??? If on purpose then it's possible he's not actually gone then? So this guy was more powerful than the emperor in terms of psyche or second to him?

Malcador was second to the Emperor in terms of Psychic ability. Basically, the Emperor was working on a human webway and originally he wanted Magnus to power it. When Magnus did what he did, the Emperor then wanted Malcador to take Magnus' place. Just being a regular human, his body couldn't take the psychic barrage from keeping the webway open. When Dorn came to switch the dying Emperor into the Golden Throne, when they took Malcador out his body turned to dust but he used the last of his strength to give to the Emperor to awaken him from the coma from the wounds sustained in battle with Horus.

Despite Malcador dying, his effect on the Imperium is huge.

I didn't know this at all, it's very interesting. In fact I'm dying to know more on malcadors fluff. What was he in the beginning, why did he have such amazing psyche powers, how close was he to the emperor and probably most important where did he come from?

The origins of Malcador are as they usually are, mysterious. He was the Emperor's right hand man, able to act for the Emperor when the Emperor wasn't able to appear. He was second only to the Emperor and was tasked with directly from the Emperor to find "men of character, skill and determination" which was the start of the Imperial Inquisition and that is Malcador's real claim to fame. The Sigilite audio drama has him in it quite extensively as he interviews a covert op agent. Anything involving Garro after the Flight of Eisenstein will have Malcador at least referenced in it. It has been a great interest to me because the Inquisition is my favorite faction.

Interesting, he was the right hand man obviously while the emperor was in human form? Was he around from the beginning during the emperors rise to dame or did he come along afterwards?

Malcador was around during the Great Crusade having a supportive role but as I said, his big thing was when the Heresy broke out, the Emperor knew that they now had to watch for Heresy lest it happened again so Malcador only becomes a big player during that time. His origins are unknown, his age is unknown. A perfect character for the generation of an organization like the Inquisition.

**kerikhaos**

Envihon wrote:
kerikhaos wrote:
Envihon wrote:
kerikhaos wrote:
Envihon wrote:
kerikhaos wrote:
So he disintegrated on purpose or??? If on purpose then it's possible he's not actually gone then? So this guy was more powerful than the emperor in terms of psyche or second to him?

Malcador was second to the Emperor in terms of Psychic ability. Basically, the Emperor was working on a human webway and originally he wanted Magnus to power it. When Magnus did what he did, the Emperor then wanted Malcador to take Magnus' place. Just being a regular human, his body couldn't take the psychic barrage from keeping the webway open. When Dorn came to switch the dying Emperor into the Golden Throne, when they took Malcador out his body turned to dust but he used the last of his strength to give to the Emperor to awaken him from the coma from the wounds sustained in battle with Horus.

Despite Malcador dying, his effect on the Imperium is huge.

I didn't know this at all, it's very interesting. In fact I'm dying to know more on malcadors fluff. What was he in the beginning, why did he have such amazing psyche powers, how close was he to the emperor and probably most important where did he come from?

The origins of Malcador are as they usually are, mysterious. He was the Emperor's right hand man, able to act for the Emperor when the Emperor wasn't able to appear. He was second only to the Emperor and was tasked with directly from the Emperor to find "men of character, skill and determination" which was the start of the Imperial Inquisition and that is Malcador's real claim to fame. The Sigilite audio drama has him in it quite extensively as he interviews a covert op agent. Anything involving Garro after the Flight of Eisenstein will have Malcador at least referenced in it. It has been a great interest to me because the Inquisition is my favorite faction.

Interesting, he was the right hand man obviously while the emperor was in human form? Was he around from the beginning during the emperors rise to dame or did he come along afterwards?

Malcador was around during the Great Crusade having a supportive role but as I said, his big thing was when the Heresy broke out, the Emperor knew that they now had to watch for Heresy lest it happened again so Malcador only becomes a big player during that time. His origins are unknown, his age is unknown. A perfect character for the generation of an organization like the Inquisition.

Excellent stuff, very interesting reading about that guy

**Iron_Captain**

Envihon wrote:
The stories that follow Garro after Isstavan V detail how Malcador made the Grey Knights. Malcador was also instrumental in making the primarchs and the Space Marines, which is also described in The Sigilite, so he knows what happened to the II and XI Legions so for whatever reason, he felt to inscribe their numbers into his throne. I want to know why too, so bad. GW could of just put it there as a taunt too.

Maybe those are even the skulls of the 2nd and 11th primarchs?

**Envihon**

Iron_Captain wrote:
Envihon wrote:
The stories that follow Garro after Isstavan V detail how Malcador made the Grey Knights. Malcador was also instrumental in making the primarchs and the Space Marines, which is also described in The Sigilite, so he knows what happened to the II and XI Legions so for whatever reason, he felt to inscribe their numbers into his throne. I want to know why too, so bad. GW could of just put it there as a taunt too.
Maybe those are even the skulls of the 2nd and 11th primarchs?

I never even considered that a possibility but maybe, who knows really? My only hesitation with the conclusion is that aren't the skulls a tad too small to be a Primarch skull? Men that big I would assume would have pretty big skulls.

**kerikhaos**

Envihon wrote:
Iron_Captain wrote:
Envihon wrote:
The stories that follow Garro after Isstavan V detail how Malcador made the Grey Knights. Malcador was also instrumental in making the primarchs and the Space Marines, which is also described in The Sigilite, so he knows what happened to the II and XI Legions so for whatever reason, he felt to inscribe their numbers into his throne. I want to know why too, so bad. GW could of just put it there as a taunt too.
Maybe those are even the skulls of the 2nd and 11th primarchs?

I never even considered that a possibility but maybe, who knows really? My only hesitation with the conclusion is that aren't the skulls a tad too small to be a Primarch skull? Men that big I would assume would have pretty big skulls.

No way primarch skulls. Unless malcador was 10ft too or bigger so the scale is justified. its no way going to stick those skulls are the missing chapters primarchs.

It's more like he's confirming he had a lot to do with their creation and more to do with their obliteration. He has it as a constant reminder maybe so he will never forget 2 1st founding chapters. Despite there deeds negative or otherwise.

**Relapse**

Mysterious Pants wrote:
They didn't all meet their end. Look it up on Lexicanum or the Warhammer Wiki if you really need the full scoop, I can't be bothered to describe 'em all.

I recall the surviving heretical primarchs became demon princes. I would personally classify that as 'A fate worse than death'.

Lion El'Jonson is alive. He's taking a nap but evidence suggests to me that he's just doing that to extend his lifespan, and he's able to wake up and go kickass with his Green Friends when he's really needed. He's probably waiting for something super-important to happen before waking up.

Everyone thinks Roboute Guiliman is slowly healing, but that's because they're a bunch of mystical dummies. As long as he's trapped inside a stasis field, he's experiencing tremendous pain. So I guess Roboute is still 'alive', but he's been in ball-crushing agony for the last 10,000 years and as soon as the stasis field goes away he'll die.

Leman Russ randomly decided to take a vacation into the Eye of Terror. You might think he's dead, but consider it like this: a lousy friggin' Grey Knight Terminator (Draigo) has managed to survive inside the Eye of Terror. A Primarch is far more kickass than any Grey Knight, and so I'm sure Russ is all right. Russ was also the only primarch who ever had an official non-forgeworld miniature made of him. Russ is awesome.

When the Empire starts really falling apart The Lion and Russ will suddenly appear, team up, and kickass across the galaxy. It's been forseen.

He's probably in there, kickin' it with the 13th between their forays out of the Eye of Terror to fight Abaddon and his Black Crusade.

**kerikhaos**

Don't forget the alpha legions primarch may of been a twin so there is a chance this chapter is still complete in terms of having a leader

**pm713**

I thought it was definitely a twin so the Alpha Legion do still have at least one Primarch barring other causes of death. Not that the Alpha Legion ever needed a single leader.

**kerikhaos**

pm713 wrote:
I thought it was definitely a twin so the Alpha Legion do still have at least one Primarch barring other causes of death. Not that the Alpha Legion ever needed a single leader.

It's an interesting chapter the alpha legion and the fluff even more bizarre. It's said that the primarch actually new about the heresy before it happened and even as far as knowing the emperor would be very mortally wounded in the match against Horus. Quite a bit of mystery with theses guys but what's interesting is where and what are they doing now ???

**pm713**

kerikhaos wrote:
pm713 wrote:
I thought it was definitely a twin so the Alpha Legion do still have at least one Primarch barring other causes of death. Not that the Alpha Legion ever needed a single leader.

It's an interesting chapter the alpha legion and the fluff even more bizarre. It's said that the primarch actually new about the heresy before it happened and even as far as knowing the emperor would be very mortally wounded in the match against Horus. Quite a bit of mystery with theses guys but what's interesting is where and what are they doing now ???

I believe they're annoying the Inqusition by being wiped out and coming back. No idea whose side they're on though.

**kerikhaos**

Well I understood as far they had deliberately appeared traitor to safely root within the chaos forces only to one day revert back to good and possibly ending the chaos plague once and for all. Their primarch has foreseen this and is now just playing a sitting duck game on the other end of the galaxy

**Rakdosgobo**

It is unclear whether the Alpha Legion joined the Rebel Legions to get set up to destroy chaos later, or if they followed the words of the mysterious Cabal and wanted to help Horus destroy the imperium so he'd get struck with grief and kill everything, thus ending Chaos once and for all. It is widely theorized that they're now so caught up in their deceptions and cover that they have lost all purpose and now act out subterfuge for the simple sake of subterfuge.

**Happyjew**

Alpha Legion's plots are so convoluted that the only one who could possibly follow them is Tzeentch. And maybe Creed. Not even Alpha Legion can follow them anymore.

**kerikhaos**

It's possible that if the their primarch/s had the gift of sight then they could see the outcome of this harsh war. It would then be clear what path to follow and how to cleverly hide their plans. It was a simple job of staging decoy characters, following false mission, misleading intentions and misdirection to give them that edge of staying hidden like a needle in a haystack. Then when the time was right pounce and end the grim shadow of chaos and war. This makes sense as how they kept a lot to themselves even in the beginning.

Who knows though. It's one if those if and or situations

**Deadshot**

Only 10 Primarchs have confirmed fates. Of these only 3 (or 4 depending on personal belief) are confirmed dead; Sanguinius, Ferrus Manus and Horus.

Guilliman may or may not be according to some but personally, he's dead as doornails. He's held in stasis on Macragge.

Fulgrim, Perturabo, Angron, Mortarion, Magnus and Lorgar are Daemon Princes.

The others are missing, or presumed, but not confirmed dead.

**kerikhaos**

Deadshot wrote:
Only 10 Primarchs have confirmed fates. Of these only 3 (or 4 depending on personal belief) are confirmed dead; Sanguinius, Ferrus Manus and Horus.

Guilliman may or may not be according to some but personally, he's dead as doornails. He's held in stasis on Macragge.

Fulgrim, Perturabo, Angron, Mortarion, Magnus and Lorgar are Daemon Princes.

The others are missing, or presumed, but not confirmed dead.

What about lion el Jonson. Isn't he sleeping within the rock or is that just superstition from dark angels

**pm713**

That comes under missing. The Dark Angels don't even know he's there.

**Deadshot**

kerikhaos wrote:
Deadshot wrote:
Only 10 Primarchs have confirmed fates. Of these only 3 (or 4 depending on personal belief) are confirmed dead; Sanguinius, Ferrus Manus and Horus.

Guilliman may or may not be according to some but personally, he's dead as doornails. He's held in stasis on Macragge.

Fulgrim, Perturabo, Angron, Mortarion, Magnus and Lorgar are Daemon Princes.

The others are missing, or presumed, but not confirmed dead.

What about lion el Jonson. Isn't he sleeping within the rock or is that just superstition from dark angels

Speculation. Not confirmed. The only ones with 100%, definately, confirmed fates are those listed above.

Lion may or may not be asleep under the Rock, or dead.
Russ may or may not be alive or dead in the warp.
Khan may or may not be alive in the Webway.
Dorn may or may not have died in a Black Crusade.
Kurze is "confirmed" dead by the Inquisition but the pict feed went dead at the moment of death so he may have escaped.
Vulkan is alive, as he just respawns upon death, but where is a mystery. He may be in the collection of Tryzan, or whatever his name is.
Alpharius may or may not be killed by Gulliman, or it may be Omegon. Or neither. Or both. Who knows?

The 6 Daemon Primarchs are confirmed alive and have been active since the heresy.

Ferrus Manus was decapitated, in front of his men. He's definately dead.
Sanguinius was killed by Horus. Confirmed.
Horus was fethed up by the Emperor and then obliternated. Dead.

Guilliman was cut through the throat to bone, and his corpse is in stasis on Maccrage. Some claim he is regenerating based on one bit of fluff that has pilgrims claim as such. Impossible though.

**Harriticus**

Lexicanum has a good summary on the current status of every Primarch.

**kerikhaos**

The whole missing in action stuff is a bit weird I think, I mean in 40k in general they didn't want battles to include primarchs so they got rid of them either by death, chaos concerted or MIA - but why bother with the MIA bits? Did GW pick their favourite chapters to have the opportunity of a primarch return?

Talking of daemon princes - do these posses the same or greater power of that of a primarch? Plus if I've got this right they can't ever die not even if slain in battle. The chaos gods keep manifesting them back to physical form to fight another day or have I got that wrong???