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 ruprecht wrote:
Anyone able to fact check the "no price increases in 2 years" claim?

I'm pretty sure he's wrong. I know we didn't receive the big model increases that other countries did, but I'm pretty sure we did receive some increases.

Not that it matters because GW are now hiding price increases with 'repacks'. For example, the Dire Avengers 100% price increase by keeping the price the same but repacking it with half the contents. To Games Workshop, they don't count that as a price increase. To anyone with a brain, it is.

It sucks badly, and there is no easy way a round it. But, this is the game we play, so I assume most of us will buy it.

Importing is a great way to get around the price hike, and so is ebay trawling, but the fact remains that the shipping, conversion rates and getting burned occasionally makes it far less attractive.

Surely they can afford to lower prices. Unless Australia has a larger wargaming community then we realise, and we're actually the buffer for their finance reports.

Maybe we should aim our emails at the UK parent company.

Another part of the 'Australian Tax' (an actual one this time) is the new import fee. My gaming group combined our forge world orders for the free shipping and got slapped with a $250 tax.

So I just did some rough numbers based on the 2012/2013 annual report. A couple of interesting things poked out:

It costs roughly the same to operate a store in the US as it does in Australia (US 0.14M GBP/year, AU 0.15M GBP/year) so the operating expenses argument is a simplistic red herring.
Markups on landed stock (as far as I can extrapolate) are about US 88%, and AU 127% - this is the "Australia Tax".
Revenue per store (GBP) is about 27% lower per store in AU than in the US (0.37M US vs 0.29M AU).
US sales increased 7.8% vs AU sales dipping -4%.
While the populations are vastly different, all that matters is the population density in the store catchments. I'm going to guess it's higher in the US, but by how much?

So the problem in AU seems to be not the costs, but the lower revenues against those costs. Australians don't shop in the GW stores as much as the Americans. I imagine this is partly due to lower population density in the store catchments, but anecdotally Australians are far more likely to import because of the local pricing. And the fact that revenues have dropped while population density and brand awareness have increased makes me think it's more about prices.

Therefore, GW are essentially asking customers to subsidise the stores by paying 30-50% more until enough timmies can be engaged to make more reasonable prices sustainable. So Andrew's response is quite accurate: the prices are necessary to keep the stores open until revenues improve. Unfortunately they won't until a) the prices drop (a Catch-22), population density increases significantly (long-term only) or a greater percentage of the population becomes engaged in the Hobby (which requires expensive premium location stores).

The choice for me now as a consumer is: do I value the local stores more than the extra money I have to spend to keep them open? And the best thing you can do for prices is to help get more people playing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Farseer Anath'lan wrote:
Another part of the 'Australian Tax' (an actual one this time) is the new import fee. My gaming group combined our forge world orders for the free shipping and got slapped with a $250 tax.

How much was the actual order? $250 tax on a GBP 250 order (the threshold for free shipping) seems a lot. The Customs & Border Protection site says that import duty still only applies to imports over A$1,000?

"Oh no, people aren't buying our models because they're too expensive!"
"Quick, raise the prices!"

 ruprecht wrote:
So I just did some rough numbers based on the 2012/2013 annual report. A couple of interesting things poked out:

It costs roughly the same to operate a store in the US as it does in Australia (US 0.14M GBP/year, AU 0.15M GBP/year) so the operating expenses argument is a simplistic red herring.
Markups on landed stock (as far as I can extrapolate) are about US 88%, and AU 127% - this is the "Australia Tax".
Revenue per store (GBP) is about 27% lower per store in AU than in the US (0.37M US vs 0.29M AU).
US sales increased 7.8% vs AU sales dipping -4%.
While the populations are vastly different, all that matters is the population density in the store catchments. I'm going to guess it's higher in the US, but by how much?

So the problem in AU seems to be not the costs, but the lower revenues against those costs. Australians don't shop in the GW stores as much as the Americans. I imagine this is partly due to lower population density in the store catchments, but anecdotally Australians are far more likely to import because of the local pricing.

Therefore, GW are essentially asking customers to subsidise the stores by paying 30-50% more. So Andrew's response is quite accurate: the prices are necessary to keep the stores open until revenues improve. Unfortunately they won't until a) the prices drop (a Catch-22), population density increases significantly (long-term only) or a greater percentage of the population becomes engaged in the Hobby (which requires expensive premium location stores).

The choice for me now as a consumer is: do I value the local stores more than the extra money I have to spend to keep them open?

Same problem here in New Zealand. There are only two brick and mortar stores nearby that sell 40k. One barely ever holds 40k games (Magic the gathering is the in thing apparently) and the other is nearby in relative terms because it's still a bit too far away to make it a regular haunt. Because of this the only games I play are at mine or a mate's so what incentive is there to go all the way to a "local" store that doesn't even host tournaments or games when it costs just as much to sit at home in my shorts and order online. Most of my army is from online stores before GW went and brought out their new policy and shut down half the bit sites out there.

I still love the game and I'd love to support GW but it's getting to the point that it seems like the only way this game would be worth playing is if I lived in the States or England/Europe. Just for the record, I live in Auckland so I'm not complaining as though I live in the middle of nowhere. I know I don't speak for those who live closer to gaming clubs and shops and such but I know a good number of people in the same position I am. As a consumer, you don't feel bad for not supporting the local nail salon, right? But why not? It's a niche service, usually privately owned that only a few people would frequent. So why should I feel bad about not supporting a local gaming store when they don't offer me anything I need or want?

 -Loki- wrote:

 ruprecht wrote:
Anyone able to fact check the "no price increases in 2 years" claim?

I'm pretty sure he's wrong. I know we didn't receive the big model increases that other countries did, but I'm pretty sure we did receive some increases.

Not that it matters because GW are now hiding price increases with 'repacks'. For example, the Dire Avengers 100% price increase by keeping the price the same but repacking it with half the contents. To Games Workshop, they don't count that as a price increase. To anyone with a brain, it is.

I'm not 100% sure what's going on there. I could have sworn there were some flat price rises but it's possible he isn't completely full of gak.

Having said that, even if there where technically no price increases, GW have moved to a new system where instead of raising everything 10% at a certain time of the year they simply up the costs of all the new things they bring out. Terminators didn't suddenly jump from $65 to $69 to $74 like they used to but at the same time when the new dark angels termis came out they where at $75. (Huh, I thought that was worse, but I guess the point stands.)

As well there was the complete bs of the dire avengers box giving you half the number of models for the same price.

So, he might TECHNICALLY have a point, but I'd still throw those dire avengers, $30 plastic heroes and $120 razorback + command squad just to get that chaplain back in his face.

So how does all these costs translate to non gw store's like my local gaming haunt. They obviously have to purchase the products from gw to sell to their patrons.

They buy it from GW as a trade sale at 50-65% of the retail price. They then mark it up and sell it on.

GW greatly dislikes this and for some reason seems to be stuck wanting all those trade sales (made up over half their sales only a few years ago) but also wanting the full 100% of their retail price.
They are now in the middle of an awkward dance where they are trying to restrict trade sales by moving a lot of things to direct only but have to pull them form their own stores as well since they can't stock things they refuse to sell to FLGS.

Yeah, it is only $1000+ that gets taxed. The problem is, that for some of the guys that weren't buying much, combining was best for them, and for a lot of us it was for convenience. It wasn't the first time we'd done it, but first since the tax. I was pointing out that it isn't getting cheaper and easier, even though GW has nothing to do with that particular issue. It still makes life harder for players.

It can't be that hard to sell at cheaper prices. GW makes a significant profit off of selling to FLGS, a fair indication of just how cheap their product actually is to manufacture.

One thing I would like clarified is why a Riptide is US $85 and AUD $90, whereas the rulebook is US $85 and AUD $140. Surely that much of a markup can't be due to weight difference on shipping, right?

 PrinceRaven wrote:
"Oh no, people aren't buying our models because they're too expensive!"
"Quick, raise the prices!"

"Genius! If less people are buying at higher prices they pick up the slack those true fans left behind when they abandoned the hobby for that warmafaux stuff!"

As a new zealand player, i say kudos to you. The markup is indeed inexplicable and exploitative down under and although i think by now gw have received enough angry emails to know simply not to read any of them, i commend you for actually doing something constructive.

Got the same reply. At least they answered.

 Swastakowey wrote:
[spoiler]Got the same reply. At least they answered.

Same reply here this morning.

Yup, me too.

Can't fault them for response time at the very least.

Heh, exact same reply.

Response time was nice, but copy/paste response is kind of insulting.

They must have prepared a "Australian Price Defense" Statement and use it for occasions like this. I wouldnt be surprised if they still use it for many years to come.

It doesnt explain much really though. I mean any business can say that about any of their prices. There are no specifics. Usually means they are beating around the bush. Answering without the answer meaning anything at all.

Much like politicians do.

So annoying.

 Yonan wrote:

PiPaPo wrote:

 Yonan wrote:

PiPaPo wrote:
For example, the SM Battle Force retails from GW at $350, whereas I can find it from several other stores going for $275.

Which I bought from the US for $177.

!!!

Damn, I wish I wasn't so impatient. When I want something, I want it within a couple days

Discount Games Store in the US, great shop for Aussies to buy GW stuff from. Very much worth the couple weeks wait to save so much cash and they're great guys.

I have got a fair bit of stuff from DGS in the past but when I went to get the 7th Edition Rulebook, with shipping, it was basically the same amount as going into GW and coughing up.

I "cheap-out" on most things in relation to this hobby but this time around, I folded. I feel dirty. Impatiently dirty.

 Swastakowey wrote:

Spoiler:

Good Morning

Many thanks for your email regarding to Australian prices.

Our prices are set for Australia at the level that ensures we can support our Australian business, including all our Hobby Centres and their staff which recruit and support many happy Hobbyists across the country. If we sold our products at UK prices to Australian customers, we would unfortunately be unable to sustain our operation there. We work hard to protect our employees jobs, the success of our business, and ultimately the health of the Hobby in every country in which we operate.

While I understand that you may be unhappy with our decision, I hope the explanation above is helpful regarding our prices.

Got the same reply. At least they answered.

I got that same email this morning. who reckons that they had it standing by for the new rulebook?

Farseer Anath'lan wrote:
Another part of the 'Australian Tax' (an actual one this time) is the new import fee. My gaming group combined our forge world orders for the free shipping and got slapped with a $250 tax.

Not sure what 'new' import fee you're talking about. The duties payable on imports worth over $1000 has been in place for quite a few years now.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

diepotato47 wrote:
One thing I would like clarified is why a Riptide is US $85 and AUD $90, whereas the rulebook is US $85 and AUD $140. Surely that much of a markup can't be due to weight difference on shipping, right?

The have been closing the gap on most model proces with the 6th ed releases, while books have remained at pretty much the same exchange.

Part of the issue would simply be the shipping cost... Plastic kits are shipped as loose sprues and boxed up here in Oz, so they save on space in the container, and all that plastic doesn't actually weigh all that much.

Books though are heavy (particularly now that they've all gone hardcover) and cost considerably more to ship.. particularly if they're sending them from China via the UK warehouse. I don't know how much difference that is realistically going to make, but possibly some.


The other consideration is that closing the gap on models makes it less profitable for Oz customers to buy from overseas discounters. They don't have to close that gap as far on books, for the same reason as above: Shipping hardcover books is expensive. International shipping on the 7th ed rulebook is going to put the price up around the level that we can get it from an Oz discounter anyway...


The price difference on digital downloads, though, is much harder for them to justify. The explanation I got from the Black Library was that they set their digital prices in line with the local hardcopy book market... Which is an industry that is dying a slow, painful death in Australia precisely because of the high prices, so that seems like a solid business strategy right there...

I am unsure if people are happy to pay a "support Australian GW stores" tax? It seems from the responses here that they are not? I don't know if I am ok with a $5 increase for all my models/books to support more stores in Australia as I am sure I will never see a store in my location ever.

I do understand that some costs compared to America are more than $5 but i also understand that a certain percentage of the cost increase is justified by population density and things like shipping and other costs. I am sure there is some "price gouging" but I don't think its as much as people would think purely looking at our cost v Americas.

bodazoka wrote:
I am unsure if people are happy to pay a "support Australian GW stores" tax? It seems from the responses here that they are not? I don't know if I am ok with a $5 increase for all my models/books to support more stores in Australia as I am sure I will never see a store in my location ever.

I do understand that some costs compared to America are more than $5 but i also understand that a certain percentage of the cost increase is justified by population density and things like shipping and other costs. I am sure there is some "price gouging" but I don't think its as much as people would think purely looking at our cost v Americas.

We all agree that its not all unjustified, and we all have said that if it where not a huge increase we would not be complaining.

But its just a bit too big for our likings.

 Swastakowey wrote:
We all agree that its not all unjustified, and we all have said that if it where not a huge increase we would not be complaining.

But its just a bit too big for our likings.

I think my threshold on what that price gauging figure is is different to some peoples? Something in the range of a $5 difference for what some may call gauging I am ok with and is what I would think they charge us?

To be fair though I have the funds to pay for the hobby so that relatively small amount extra doesn't register with my wallet, I also don't buy everything they release and only purchase once a month or maybe less.

bodazoka wrote:
I am unsure if people are happy to pay a "support Australian GW stores" tax? It seems from the responses here that they are not? I don't know if I am ok with a $5 increase for all my models/books to support more stores in Australia as I am sure I will never see a store in my location ever.

The thing is, it's nonsense logic.

Yes, it might (depending on location and store size) cost more to run a store here in Oz than in the UK or US (although apparently that divide isn't actually quite as wide as GW would have us believe). But so what? It also costs more to run a store in Sydney than in Brisbane. Or in the Brisbane CBD compared to the suburbs further out... But if you start setting your prices in individual regions based on the cost of running in that region, all you do is encourage your customers to shop in the cheaper region instead. That's why the big chain stores gave up on regional pricing here in Oz back in the late '90s - it just doesn't work.

The internet hasn't changed this equation. It just gave people a wider range of regions to choose from. It's time businesses that operated international woke up and found ways to work with that, rather than trying to restrict their customers to only buying from where they want us to buy.

 captain bloody fists wrote:
I got that same email this morning. who reckons that they had it standing by for the new rulebook?

They probably have it ready to go every Monday morning.
I'm just surprised it isn't longer and about the hobby and fans and quality as well.

bodazoka wrote:
I am unsure if people are happy to pay a "support Australian GW stores" tax? It seems from the responses here that they are not? I don't know if I am ok with a $5 increase for all my models/books to support more stores in Australia as I am sure I will never see a store in my location ever.

I do understand that some costs compared to America are more than $5 but i also understand that a certain percentage of the cost increase is justified by population density and things like shipping and other costs. I am sure there is some "price gouging" but I don't think its as much as people would think purely looking at our cost v Americas.

When both WHFB plastic chaos lords are $25 but a land raider is $75 US and $110 aud that is outright unacceptable.

bodazoka wrote:
I am unsure if people are happy to pay a "support Australian GW stores" tax? It seems from the responses here that they are not? I don't know if I am ok with a $5 increase for all my models/books to support more stores in Australia as I am sure I will never see a store in my location ever.

I do understand that some costs compared to America are more than $5 but i also understand that a certain percentage of the cost increase is justified by population density and things like shipping and other costs. I am sure there is some "price gouging" but I don't think its as much as people would think purely looking at our cost v Americas.

see I would be happy to pay $30 more to what the US/UK gamers pay but not nearly double. I rarely go to a GW store because the closest one is 150km's away but I get all of my stuff through my local gaming store to support them instead of through the GW online store and I usually get a bit of a discount on some items.

I was going to get this rulebook, as I downloaded the last, but now... well...

Yar Har Fiddle-dee-dee.

 Sparkadia wrote:
Yar Har Fiddle-dee-dee.

Do what you want because an Aussie is free, you are an Aussie!

Damn Lazy Town songs.

 Yonan wrote:

Damn Lazy Town songs.

I know, right?