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Orktavius wrote: it's obvious there's some over markup but your not going to try and tell me there's no additional cost of business in Australia over America or Europe without eliciting a great deal of laughter. I believe the Adobe lawsuit was regarding a digital product was it not? Digital products should obviously be priced similarly to exchange rates....but physical product is obviously going to be marked up to higher shipping costs, overhead (IE paying employees in Australia and what not) and doubtless other factors like taxes or tarriffs on imported goods.
Is 50% to high? No doubt....but I'm betting not by as much as you think.
40k 7th ebook edition is $60 US and $80 AUD. That is a digital product. $60 USD is $64.09 AUD on current exchange rates. Nobody has said it should be on parity, but there is blatant price gouging and government investigations have confirmed it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/17 03:34:31
I would like to begin by stating how much I truly do enjoy and appreciate the quality of (most) of the products you have been releasing over the past few years - and that’s precisely why this email is so difficult for me to write, it pains me that you have taken advantage of your Australian customers to the point where this email is necessary.
I appreciate that the cost of doing business has increased over the years (and I expect it will continue to do so), however I cannot fathom any reason why we Australians and others in nearby parts of the world (e.g. New Zealand) must pay so much more to purchase your products than your customers in the USA and the UK.
I would very much appreciate a serious, truthful response as to why this is the case, and would ask you to reconsider your pricing scheme, as it is destroying your business here in Australia. The local bricks and mortar shops are in many cases struggling to stay open because of the ridiculous prices you would have them charge - they have to massively discount what they charge in order to compete with online competition and in doing so they harm their own bottom line, making it harder and harder to stay open each year. Furthermore, in the last several months I have seen an alarming number of recast miniatures in use, as well as open discussion of where to purchase such copyright infringing products on social media outlets such as Facebook, and even in the games stores themselves (the patrons, rather than the owners).
I would suggest that it is in your best interest as a company who wants to continue to do business in the growing market of Australian miniature wargaming to strongly reconsider your pricing structure down-under, it is causing numerous people to abandon your games, and I myself am about to do the same unless something changes. As far as things stand at the moment, I am forced to buy sub-par second-hand products to play the game I enjoy, because I refuse to give you any more of my money for so little return on my investment.
I know that I am just one person writing to complain about what I perceive to be your absurd policy, but it is my hope that this email, along with the many others I know you have received will make some dent on this matter.
Regards,
Also I'll be posting this thread on the various 40k groups I'm a part of on Facebook, hopefully some more people will see this and email in as well.
Tezza's Games - For anyone in the westside of Melbourne (or anywhere in Melbourne) check it out!
PiPaPo wrote: For example, the SM Battle Force retails from GW at $350, whereas I can find it from several other stores going for $275.
Which I bought from the US for $177.
!!!
Damn, I wish I wasn't so impatient. When I want something, I want it within a couple days
Was that through a retailer or private person?
Another thing I should mention, I also like purchasing through stores other than GW because they usually stock several other producer's products. So, I can buy my tac squad as well as some Vallejo paints and some objective markers from Secret Weapon, etc. etc. in one fell swoop.
ruprecht wrote:They charge it because we pay it. Until we don't.
So your solution is trying to change someone else's behavior?
Hmm...
I'm not once said it would solve the problem. But If GW don't get complaints, all they have to go on are sales figures. Next step is local MPs and consumer protection authorities. It worked with Adobe.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/17 04:00:31
captain bloody fists wrote: What really grinds my gears is that just two year's ago I forked out the same amount for a rulebook that was to last 5 or so year's.
Me too bro, but there are a lot of other threads for that
Orktavius wrote: it's obvious there's some over markup but your not going to try and tell me there's no additional cost of business in Australia over America or Europe without eliciting a great deal of laughter. I believe the Adobe lawsuit was regarding a digital product was it not? Digital products should obviously be priced similarly to exchange rates....but physical product is obviously going to be marked up to higher shipping costs, overhead (IE paying employees in Australia and what not) and doubtless other factors like taxes or tarriffs on imported goods.
Is 50% to high? No doubt....but I'm betting not by as much as you think.
You obviously didn't follow that.
While Apple was actually fairly apologetic about it, stating their prices on iTunes were more driven by licensing from the music, book and film industries (which is absilutely understandable) and that their hardware is basically at parity but a little more charged in Australia due to the usual distance excuses, their 'little more' really is a little more. Like under $100 on the top model iPad, not 50% more just because.
Adobe and Microsoft? They basically said 'feth you, geo-blocking prices isn't illegal, come back and complain when it is', basically admitting yes, they're fething us in the ass, no they're not going to stop because they're allowed to.
It's very easy to see which side Games Workshop falls on.
-Loki- wrote: They're not going to do anything. 1. Accept it, and pay through the nose for their stuff. 2. Trawl ebay for bargains, though this makes getting what you want pretty hit and miss. 3. Give your hobby dollars to a better company. There's plenty of wargames out there these days.
The problem here is that option 1 is essentially submitting to being exploited, and 2 and 3 hurt my local store. I have an interest in keeping my local store open because I like playing there, and I have no interest in other systems. I understand that GW won't change because of one complaint, and by and large I will continue to support the local store because there's something in it for me.
There's a very good chance my mail has already been deleted, but you miss 100% of the shots you don't take.
There in lies the problem. You like Games Workshops products, and play at a Games Workshop store, and don't have exposure to the rest of the hobby. Which is 100% fine. Just be aware that, however, it means you'll be paying these prices. For GW, whether you pre ordered it or not doesn't matter - you're going to buy it anyway.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/05/17 04:27:14
-Loki- wrote: There in lies the problem. You like Games Workshops products, and play at a Games Workshop store, and don't have exposure to the rest of the hobby. Which is 100% fine. Just be aware that, however, it means you'll be paying these prices. For GW, whether you pre ordered it or not doesn't matter - you're going to buy it anyway.
You're quite right and I do give up a lot of my consumer power because of the decisions I make. I've been playing 40k since Rogue Trader and my brand & store loyalty is strong, which hurts me and I accept that. And while I don't think my individual complaint, or even a hundred Dakkanaut complaints will force GW to change much if at all, I'm doing what I can with the limited power I have to try.
And no, I'm not buying the 7ed set. Ever. I may buy a separate Rulez release or buy DV again when it's repacked, and yes I'll buy Valkyries and Land Raiders and Guardsmen (oh my!) and say "please may I have another" when GW dickpunches me with the 50% on those, but this sale is gone as a matter of principle. And now GW and my store know it's gone, and precisely why. For what it's worth, even if that is nothing.
stealth edit: Messaged to my store on FB:
Hi, message for Andrew to explain what I was saying in the store when I picked up WD today. I really want to support the store and I buy all my and my son's minis there except FW stuff - I believe in "pay where you play" and my issue isn't with the store.
The issue is with GW's AU pricing, which is 50% marked up over the same items in the US. For example 7ed is 50 GBP / $85 USD / $140 AUD. 50 pounds is 85 USD, so the US pricing is spot on the exchange rate. 50 pounds is $90 AUD, so we are being gouged over 50% more for the same item.
The same applies even to digital products - 7ed digital is $60 USD ($64 AUD) but we're charged $80 AUD.
I understand 40k is an expensive hobby and I have no problem paying retail, especially to support your great store. But I have an issue with being exploited by GW to the tune of 50% more for the same retail items.
This is why I wanted to let you know rather than just buying on eBay or importing (which only hurts your store), so that you can tell your management that you are losing sales because of the price gouging.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2014/05/17 05:05:08
Here is an video that is semi-relevant. The jist of it is that boycotting rarely works because it doesn't usually send the message that "We are not buying product X because of reason Y". Rather it sends the message that the consumer simply doesn't want the product anymore leading to it's demise. Rather, what really sends the message home to companies is the gnashing of teeth, the whining and etc. because most companies care about their image in the eyes of the consumers.
However, Games Workshop gives no feths either way which complicates the issue.
Thought for the day: Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
30k Ultramarines: 2000 pts
Bolt Action Germans: ~1200 pts
AOS Stormcast: Just starting.
The Empire : ~60-70 models.
1500 pts
: My Salamanders painting blog 16 Infantry and 2 Vehicles done so far!
PiPaPo wrote: For example, the SM Battle Force retails from GW at $350, whereas I can find it from several other stores going for $275.
Which I bought from the US for $177.
!!!
Damn, I wish I wasn't so impatient. When I want something, I want it within a couple days
Discount Games Store in the US, great shop for Aussies to buy GW stuff from. Very much worth the couple weeks wait to save so much cash and they're great guys.
Davor wrote: Isn't this the case for anything Australians buy though? It's not just GW doing this but ALL business. Are they not following Australian government law?
Nah. Itunes prices are the same as they are in the US. Computer games sell for about 120 here, so about double US prices. It depends on the market. We do generally pay more, although we pay a lot more than we used to because our dollar is so much stronger than it was when this price difference started.
Part of it is our welfare system. Doesn't help the average joe schmoe who doesn't live off dole payments.
Queenslanders, I suggest you buy from Alpha Hobbies - they mark down by 25% and Adam (the owner) runs a lot of the tournaments in and around SE queensland.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/05/17 05:29:44
-Loki- wrote: There in lies the problem. You like Games Workshops products, and play at a Games Workshop store, and don't have exposure to the rest of the hobby. Which is 100% fine. Just be aware that, however, it means you'll be paying these prices. For GW, whether you pre ordered it or not doesn't matter - you're going to buy it anyway.
You're quite right and I do give up a lot of my consumer power because of the decisions I make. I've been playing 40k since Rogue Trader and my brand & store loyalty is strong, which hurts me and I accept that. And while I don't think my individual complaint, or even a hundred Dakkanaut complaints will force GW to change much if at all, I'm doing what I can with the limited power I have to try.
And no, I'm not buying the 7ed set. Ever. I may buy a separate Rulez release or buy DV again when it's repacked, and yes I'll buy Valkyries and Land Raiders and Guardsmen (oh my!) and say "please may I have another" when GW dickpunches me with the 50% on those, but this sale is gone as a matter of principle. And now GW and my store know it's gone, and precisely why. For what it's worth, even if that is nothing.
stealth edit: Messaged to my store on FB:
Hi, message for Andrew to explain what I was saying in the store when I picked up WD today. I really want to support the store and I buy all my and my son's minis there except FW stuff - I believe in "pay where you play" and my issue isn't with the store.
The issue is with GW's AU pricing, which is 50% marked up over the same items in the US. For example 7ed is 50 GBP / $85 USD / $140 AUD. 50 pounds is 85 USD, so the US pricing is spot on the exchange rate. 50 pounds is $90 AUD, so we are being gouged over 50% more for the same item.
The same applies even to digital products - 7ed digital is $60 USD ($64 AUD) but we're charged $80 AUD.
I understand 40k is an expensive hobby and I have no problem paying retail, especially to support your great store. But I have an issue with being exploited by GW to the tune of 50% more for the same retail items.
This is why I wanted to let you know rather than just buying on eBay or importing (which only hurts your store), so that you can tell your management that you are losing sales because of the price gouging.
I'd be surprised if that message is not deleted pretty quickly.
This may help, but it doesnt really explain why. There is more on the site which may help but I havent really looked yet.
But given that massed shipping is cheaper than minor shipping, its pretty crazy that we can still get it elsewhere for cheaper over all.
LOL sorry did a comparison just for fun on San Diego, CA. and Sydney, What do you mean I pay more for Coffee, Rice, Cheese and tennis court rentals!!!!!
It doesn't take a genius to know that if it's cheaper for people to import stuff themselves than buy from your stores you're going to have issues.
Ailaros wrote: You know what really bugs me? When my opponent, before they show up at the FLGS smears themselves in peanut butter and then makes blood sacrifices to Ashterai by slitting the throat of three male chickens and then smears the spatter pattern into the peanut butter to engrave sacred symbols into their chest and upper arms.
I have a peanut allergy. It's really inconsiderate.
"Long ago in a distant land, I, M'kar, the shape-shifting Master of Chaos, unleashed an unspeakable evil! But a foolish Grey Knight warrior wielding a magic sword stepped forth to oppose me. Before the final blow was struck, I tore open a portal in space and flung him into the Warp, where my evil is law! Now the fool seeks to return to real-space, and undo the evil that is Chaos!"
n0t_u wrote: Which then the really out there plan is "hey, why don't we stop them importing!"
Which they have tried to do, by banning their stockists from exporting internationally. A move which in hindsight seems purpose-designed to protect price disparities.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/17 12:17:32
An excellent plan to drive customers away from your affiliated stores and get them buying from third party stores, 2nd hand models and recasts from China.
Ailaros wrote: You know what really bugs me? When my opponent, before they show up at the FLGS smears themselves in peanut butter and then makes blood sacrifices to Ashterai by slitting the throat of three male chickens and then smears the spatter pattern into the peanut butter to engrave sacred symbols into their chest and upper arms.
I have a peanut allergy. It's really inconsiderate.
"Long ago in a distant land, I, M'kar, the shape-shifting Master of Chaos, unleashed an unspeakable evil! But a foolish Grey Knight warrior wielding a magic sword stepped forth to oppose me. Before the final blow was struck, I tore open a portal in space and flung him into the Warp, where my evil is law! Now the fool seeks to return to real-space, and undo the evil that is Chaos!"
Hi
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. I passed on your concerns and have received the following response:
Good morning Andrew
Thank you for passing on your customers concerns.
Pricing for all countries are given to us by our UK parent company.
They take into consideration many factors such as,
Cost of labour in every country
Cost of shop rentals and outgoings in every company
Cost of services in every country eg electricity water etc
Cost of insurances in every country
Costs of living in every country
It should be noted that for 2 years in a row now the rest of the world have had significant price rises where as oz and NZ have had 2 years of zero increases
These are some of the variables that go into cost of goods decided on for every country from the UK Cheers
Ken'
Having been in the Hobby for 30 yrs and seen what it was like without GW presence; Having worked for GW for more than 11 years on my last tour and following a 6 year break returned in January to run the store; I can say that without our current price structure for Australia, the reality would be that store's like [store] and people like myself wouldn't be part of providing Hobby Support here in Australia.
I also remember the days when there was no GW presence in the country, and we had to order everything from the UK, so I do appreciate having the stores. And while I appreciate the response, all of the above costs are operating expenses, with the exception of "cost of living" which is as far as I can see shorthand for "they are used to paying high prices, so let's charge high prices too". And it doesn't explain the gouging on digital products, which are a separate division and involve none of those operating expenses.
Anyone able to fact check the "no price increases in 2 years" claim?
To the annual report, to see what I can see.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/18 00:59:23
ya cry me a river I get charged a import fee and pay 15% taxes and my province has the lowest income in Canada. The new book cost 100$ with a 15% tax which makes it 115$ then when it reaches me in the mail I will need to pay a fee of 15% again on the 115$ making it 132$ where the average income in NS is 30-40k a year. buy from forge is even worse where canadian dollar almost half brit pound so 50pounds is about 90 $ with a shipping of 12 % i think it is now then taxes on that "with the shipping added and then they make me pay a import fee to forge then when it gets to the mail it is more import. I bought a monster from forge "forget which one" for 50 pounds and ended paying 153$ for it
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/05/18 01:09:28
I need to go to work every day.
Millions of people on welfare depend on me.
Oh no, you're getting it cheaper than we are, I feel so bad for you.
Ailaros wrote: You know what really bugs me? When my opponent, before they show up at the FLGS smears themselves in peanut butter and then makes blood sacrifices to Ashterai by slitting the throat of three male chickens and then smears the spatter pattern into the peanut butter to engrave sacred symbols into their chest and upper arms.
I have a peanut allergy. It's really inconsiderate.
"Long ago in a distant land, I, M'kar, the shape-shifting Master of Chaos, unleashed an unspeakable evil! But a foolish Grey Knight warrior wielding a magic sword stepped forth to oppose me. Before the final blow was struck, I tore open a portal in space and flung him into the Warp, where my evil is law! Now the fool seeks to return to real-space, and undo the evil that is Chaos!"
: 4500pts
The Empire 
1500 pts
: 
