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The early battle reports created specifically to alter peoples opinion of the game never ceases to amaze me. Its like the goal is to create internet hysteria, the game has always had crazy combos that scares the average gamer but once you take a deeper look at the list you start to see weaknesses. I would love to see Footdar face daemon factory that would be more entertaining.

 CKO wrote:
The early battle reports created specifically to alter peoples opinion of the game never ceases to amaze me. Its like the goal is to create internet hysteria, the game has always had crazy combos that scares the average gamer but once you take a deeper look at the list you start to see weaknesses. I would love to see Footdar face daemon factory that would be more entertaining.

Not sure if Footdar has the defence dice or the long range anti-horde to tackle it.

Now a battle of the Titans between Seer Council/Serpent Spam and Daemon Factory would be quite interesting.

It has enough to keep them off objectives and one or two units that can focus on the herald unit until it dies.

 CKO wrote:
The early battle reports created specifically to alter peoples opinion of the game never ceases to amaze me. Its like the goal is to create internet hysteria, the game has always had crazy combos that scares the average gamer but once you take a deeper look at the list you start to see weaknesses. I would love to see Footdar face daemon factory that would be more entertaining.

I always laugh to myself when people see some of our videos and draw these conclusions. I see how you can get there, but I have to say in our defense you are seeing it 100% wrong. We aren't trying to sway anyone's opinions, we aren't "stacking the deck" so to speak. When a new edition or book comes out, a lot of players come over to the shop. We all break it open and read through it, excitedly. We come across something that seems totally crazy (like summoning spam) and can't believe it would work the way it looks like it does, so we decide to try it out. The game unfolds to us as a surprise as it does to the watcher, we are just filming ourselves going through the new rules. It isn't with any other intent than to see what happens.

Now, we do draw conclusions form the results, like, this rule mechanic is way out of balance with the rest of the game, but not before we try it. We may have an idea of how the game will go, but we play test it for a reason.


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@Thread

Thanks for all the feedback, too! I think 7th will rock once we agree on some community rules, but for now, it's the Wild West, lol!

Well the daemons did not win in the battle report...

and it appears they didn't really do anything the first two turns of the game to the opponents army. Giving your opponent the first two turns to lay into a daemon summoning army and not really doing much back doesn't seem to help the daemons, especially in a timed event. If the daemons have to spend 2+ turns to bulk up while being whittle at a little and not returning any real threats or damage, and it takes 1 hour for the daemon player to get through their turn I do not see how a daemon player is going to win a timed event by doing this.

I was thinking level 3 Librarian making a paladin star invisible. No Templates or blasts vs my paladins.

 Mythra wrote:
I was thinking level 3 Librarian making a paladin star invisible. No Templates or blasts vs my paladins.

I hear that combo so often but for the life of me can't understand why you would want expensive paladins. If your casting invisibility you don't need the two wounds. I would imagine a massive brick of invisible henchmen with deathcults would be much better. Way cheaper too. If you sink too many points into one unit it won't claw its way back out of that points deficit. Heck an Imperial knight is better invisible and cheaper.


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@Reece- The video isn't the worst you guys have done (in regard to being positive). It wasn't perfect as it definitely used the new mechanic against a list made for 6th which isn't going to be a fair demonstration but that's fine. It was the day of release, what can be expected?

However I fear past videos of complaining/hyperbole may have labeled you guys unfortunately. This is just my guess as your last few release videos have been much less doom'n gloom (minus nids). I know I love your content and am always ready to watch but I definitely clench for the hyperbole now.

simply the fact that the "broken" list was matched up against what is...
politely,

a "far less then competitive list", is what invalidates this bat rep as a proper sample of what will happen

if the match up was at least "broken vs competitive proven lists" like somthing like WS spam, IG leafblowers, tau leaf blowers, drop pods, DE mobile shooting spam, and so on, then it would have been a better sample.

but as it is, a "broken" list was matched up with something that isnt even a competitive list


Not saying your intent is to mis lead people reece, but you also cant claim this bat rep to be a good sample of how D factory will fare if you build a list you think is broken, but dont match it up against a list that is equally broken, or at the very least, a competitive list instead of... well quite frankly the imperial players list is quite weak.

Its an entertaining bat rep, and thanks for posting it up!

but before you draw conclusions for tourney place, face D factory against top tournament lists like WS spam, seer councils, tau/guard leafblowers, ect...

 easysauce wrote:
but before you draw conclusions for tourney place, face D factory against top tournament lists like WS spam, seer councils, tau/guard leafblowers, ect...

This. The uninformed hysteria at this point is a bit disappointing. The new edition has been out less than a week, give it some time and some solid battle reports.

I think Objective Secured Wave Serpents and Drop Pods will be more of an issue.

Eh, one person sees hyperbole, another sees it as being bluntly honest. I suppose it comes down to perspective. I imagine the Escalation video is the one you refer to as that one we definitely had a strong emotional reaction to. However, I really do feel that that reaction was justified. Perhaps it seemed overly dramatic to some folks, but to us, that one really was a warning to the community that the Escalation rules as they were then, were fun killing for us.

As for the matchups, lol, we're not as hyper organized as some may think. On release day we just say, who wants to play in a video bat rep? And whoever is present and so inclined, gets to play. We don't vet their lists or anything as we also have an obligation to show our customers a good time, too, not only think about the video we're making. Josh is a very good player and while I would agree looking at his list it feels unoptimized, he's known for doing really well in tournaments with really wonky lists, which is cool, it's kind of his thing. He actually was just at the top table with that list at a tournament we went to last weekend, just losing the last game in a close one to Seer Council. But, you all wouldn't know that of course, as you lack our knowledge and can only see what's presented in the video.

So, I understand the arguments here and appreciate hearing it as it allows me to understand better the perspectives of someone watching the video without more information. Perhaps we can do a better job of communicating some of this info.

Reecius a few of my friends jokingly call you guys Freaking Out Gaming because the good videos you guys create get caught up in the whirlwind of internet hysteria. The intent is not to cause hysteria but it contributes to the internet frenzy because people who theoryhammer and do not actually roll the dice use your videos as their only source. I love your site always have and always will as you guys are great players and are usually dead on with keeping a pulse on the game but these videos need to come with a disclaimer or something because these theoryhammer people relate so well with you guys its like you guys become one by default. I think a list can only be considered broken if it beats the current broken list so maybe more battle reports like that would prevent this unfair association.

I suppose this already came up but don't you take perils on ANY double when using Daemenology tables? If so he Pericles a lot and never checked... Not that perils is that bad.

To be 100% honest I would love to play against Daemon Factory in a friendly setting with the "survivor" rules because it does seem so epically fluffy when thinking about a Daemon incursion. Don't know is want to face it all the time though. Definitely cooler for a Grey Knight army now.

 Matt1785 wrote:
I suppose this already came up but don't you take perils on ANY double when using Daemenology tables? If so he Pericles a lot and never checked... Not that perils is that bad.

Both the new charts do have that rule with the following exceptions:

Sanctic: Are you playing GK? If no, any doubles perils.
Daemonology: Are you playing Daemons? If no, any doubles perils.

I appreciate the vids and totally agree that your primary concern should be for the player to have fun not to prove a point, etc.

It is actually fairly obvious that you guys just use whatever is on hand or looked interesting at the time to make most of these videos with the occasional "challenge" or "test" games mixed in. A good example is the entire series of videos with commissioned armies which obviously the player would have little experience with. I actually think that is one of the reasons your vids are so interesting because you use armies not seen a lot due to this approach. Perhaps a label in the title like [challenge], [test], and [just for fun] would remove some of the hysteria around your vids...though you might want to keep the hysteria as it is probably better for views of your megamat commercial, ala panic mongering from news channels

I would recommend not drawing any major conclusions from this batrep as no ones lists and tactics are really prepared for 7ed yet. The imperial player probably didn't know he could reduce frankie's WC pool by a third with just a handful of casualties spread around the different units. Also it is frankie were talking about. Isn't tying against the "World Greatest Player!" TM a real achievement? You have to admit though frankie got crazy lucky with his first turn of conjurations and as we all know a solid first turn can make or break a game. I do agree that the d factory absolutely needs restrictions to speed it up...perhaps only powers and gifts that can be chosen may be taken (ie gift 0, steeds/chariots, and primaris powers)?

I would love to see your scout army (still never seen it in action) versus a d factory. It should be a pretty good matchup as the scouts limit the d factory's space to act and can kill ~40 pink horrors turn 1 (which could remove 12 WC if applied evenly over all pink horror units). Also keep frankie honest as if he joins his heralds to his pink horrors the unit can only use each power once (ie 1 summoning for the entire unit).

The real test though would probably be serpent spam or GK (get Jy2 in!) You hear that Jy2 the public demands your righteous fury on the d factory menace

You have got to give GW credit for making the most fluffy power list yet. d factory fits the fluff so well it is unbelievable.

Oh FLG....

Why, oh why, do you feel the need to over-sell just how "broken" new things are?
Every single time a new thing comes out you do this, take the one thing in it that is (admittedly) too good, then "naively" send it into a game (despite the internet already brewing on the topic and no way you missed it) against a list that is anything BUT optimal, competitive, or even decent (2 LoTD squads? 10 man sniper scouts with telion? does this list even have any focus? can you get MORE inefficient casual randomness?) and use the overwhelming preformence of the optimized list against an utterly unoptimized list as "proof" of how broken is the "new thing".

Every
Time.