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 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

He already explained this on the previous page:

Except as said, there are better games with better models then 40k. By his logic he should be dumping 40k and just playing them.

The story is important to him as well, don't ignore that. I'm pretty sure other wargames do not offer a background as extensive as 40K does. Also I don't see where he says that there are games out there with better models than 40k, perhaps it's something he said in the past, I wouldn't know. Even if that were true, I would assume he invested a considerable amount of time in painting and building, perhaps converting and personalizing, his models that he doesn't want to just 'dump' them. Some of us have actually grown emotionally attached to our plastic soldiers , and just desperately wish we could use them in a better game. I doubt Peregrine would otherwise be so, shall we say, passionate about the flaws in the 40k game design if he had no issues with getting rid of his army (or armies) or shelving it for that matter.

However, I should perhaps let him speak for himself. I just felt like defending him, because I agree with most things he said on this topic. So no, I wouldn't play a PC game that replicates 40k The direct interaction between players is far too important for me as well, something you cannot really replicate in a PC game. Without that, I'd be better off playing a better PC game.

I'd play it in a heart beat because I would be able to game anytime, instead of when a buddy is free. The best thing about warmachine tactics is the email system that tells you when it's your turn. I backed war machines game and I'd back 40k. The more like the table top game (minus dice) the better.

There is a kill team or something on psp that touches on this notation.

Look at "eternal crusade"

I'd play it just to refine my strategy and learn it better, but nothing beats a hobby night with friends, and gaming with drinks. For me, this hobby is all about the models, the gaming is a distant second.

You would have to be some sort of programming genius to do a direct translation of 40k that didn't crash. I always hear people say 'well just use common sense' when there's a rules issue. Computers however are notoriously bad for common sense.

I don't want, nor would I play a direct translation. The game mechanics are bad and digitising the miniatures won't change that. I'd much rather an X-Com style Kill Team game or Epic scale.

The benefit I see from vassel is that it lets you practice and rehearse.

I have to give credit to Vassal: It let me experience Epic 40,000.

Because the models are so hard to get, I used all the sprites for Vassal, and put them in appropriate groups that printed out and attached to craft foam, so every unit in Epic can be portrayed as a flat "above view" token that is 6mm scaled-even titans. Imagine the fighter/bomber and torpedo tokens from the Battlefleet Gothic boxed set. By doing some digital converting, I can field every unit possible for every main army except Tyranids (haven't worked on them yet) just by dragging them around in MSPaint and then printing on adhesive paper. It's not as good as actual 6mm models, but it's my little "screw you" to GW for not supporting a cool game.



And mentioning Battlefleet Gothic, because of vassal, I can do the above process to field a paper flat of every single ship type for every race except Tyranids. Even Dark Eldar.

So, video games in reverse, and thank you internet for providing the base pixels I worked from.

 Yonan wrote:

*cough* tie in to topic *cough* I ahhh... hope Eternal Crusade (the 30k MMO) has learned a lot from the MMO market and doesn't go for a straight WoW copy but rather goes for a more dynamic experience like GW2, with epic PvP like DAoC/WAR/GW2 and so on. That said, it *will* be held up to the level of polish and content that WoW has so they'd want to make sure they launch well so they don't fizzle out like so many other MMOs.

It would make more sense for Eternal Crusade to follow Planetside 2's format, which would be incredibly awesome. I didn't know it was 30k, though - not sure if I like or dislike that.

Nah it's 40k, I mistyped - my bad. PS2 I like but... the combat is good, it's just the world feels empty. If Eternal Crusade had that combat but in an immersive world it would be the best of both worlds I imagine.

Totally agree with you on PS2, but I just meant in the general MMO regard. The term tends to be associated with RPGs, but this is coming out of usage as MMO shooters and stuff become more common. I think that being 40k-themed would be in of itself enough for fixing the "empty world" problem. There are so many huge and highly themed environments in the setting (Orkified place, Tyrandified place, Craftworld, Space Hulk or other spacecraft), Imperial city, etc. I've decided I'm glad it isn't 30k.

Which, to bring back on topic, makes me really want a 40k-replica-game, if the visuals were good. Damn it, SEGA, let Relic make DoW3 already! And Space Marine 2!

I would play this the same as why I play MTGO. I can't be out and playing at my local store all the time. If it was done well I would like to be able to get games in with my friends who have moved away or just get some games in when I have the time. 2am pick up 40k games.

 Peregrine wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Games like X-COM, MechWarrior Tactics, Advance Wars and other turn-based wargames with mechanics similar to 40K's are very popular franchises. It can, and has been done.

Which is an argument for making a brand new game in the 40k universe, not trying to translate a horrible game into digital form in the desperate hope that a new platform will somehow make it suck a bit less. A 40k-IP video game could be successful. A 40k clone can't.

 Peregrine wrote:
But the problem with 40k isn't a few simple things that can be FAQed away in an afternoon, it's that the entire rulebook is terrible. The core mechanics are awful

Okay, so let's look at recent XCOM, core mechanics. Small skirmish, IGOUGO, heavily ability-based, lots of luck involved. Then, 4 classes avilable, actions mostly move and shoot, just shoot or run, no close combat, complete simpleton. The only real advantage over 40k (core) is overwatch but it's not really good in xcom either, guys just shoot at whatever jumps out first it's maybe plausible but not as tactical as more controlled one.

Multiplayer, horribly unbalanced with 2 factions (!) and few guys on each side, and that assuming some varied teams. Now go make assault class spam or sniper spam and see what happens. I don't think that it's any bit better than 40k in that department, except it would be 1000 times easier to balance given the medium and the system.

Single player, AI is so dumb that it has to take additional turn when spotted which also denies a lot of planning. If you back up, they will mostly laughably attack you one at a time, I play classic without saves and failed maybe 2 missions from a hundred.

I think that computer version of 40k, despite having no proper overwatch (which I admit is big and one thing that would take 40k from somewhat tactical to an actual thinking game) would be as tactical as xcom if not more thanks to higher number and more types of units.

I mean, new xcom is as crap as 40k if not more. I still love that game, the gfx, the mood, the tension, the designs. It still sold and is very popular. I'm not saying that 40k is some good game, I'm just saying that computer ones are rarely better. There are some like Jagged Alliance, Silent Stom, Close Combat etc but 40k as it is would surely pass too.

With GW's rules? Hell to the no.

If a good gaming company re-wrote the rules? I'd check it out.

The multiplayer function would be fun, but not being able to paint your own models would suck. I would, but only because of multiplayer.

Then again, if you buy the game (Replicated Warhammer), everything would be free...

 Glorywarrior wrote:

Then again, if you buy the game (Replicated Warhammer), everything would be free...

Tell that to the $12 Dawn or War Tau Commander.

Oh I'm sure the bulk of stuff will be free (in so much as you paid for the game) but I would be stunned if they didn't release uber powerful DLC.

IM not sure if one would come to be (warhammer 40k wise).

But personally I would use it to experiment with tactics and strategies, that or fool around and throw insane amounts of things at each other just to watch the carnage like make an apoc match in the video game for the spectacle of firepower of super heavies and other nasties just duking it out.

One big reason that I don't play on Vassal is because it's ugly. Aesthetics is a big part of playing WH40k, and Vassal doesn't have that. That's probably why so few people are using it, on top of the difficulties of getting it to work in the first place.

That said, I would buy a 1:1 replica of the game the second it was released. All the models are easily transfered to, as seen in the Space Marine game (the ork boyz were exact replicas of the models, down to the arrangement of the spiky bits on their boots). Create some graphic effects for close combat, the different projectiles fired, movement and characters insulting others to issue challenges. Add automatic rolling of wounds and saves, automatic determining cover and some visual about the chances of actually killing the target on mouse-over and you get a gorgeous game. One of the best parts of DoW was actually seeing and hearing your models move, talk and shoot.

The best part would be the backlash on the rules. A computer can "4+ it" when the rules don't tell it what to do. This will uncover many obscurity issues the rules have right now.

Even if the AI isn't awesome and other single-player feature would be lacking, the ability to just save a game and continue it next Saturday would be worth every penny.