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 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
This does not seem in any way related to S&M to me, for reasons I mentioned above. The Mistress model (and concept) screams S&M to me.

Yes, those are good Repentia Sisters that fit the theme of the SoB. But I was referring to just the Mistress, in response to you singling her out. Sorry, should've made that clearer.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Am I the only one? Is that really just me?

Of course not. I acknowledge that it's very easy to view the mistress in that light. But I personally can accept that element being present as long as it also serves to underline the religious fanatic theme of the Sisters.

I would not mind seeing the mistress go. I do not think she could fit the religious tone in any way. From the old-school medieval penitents from The Seventh Seal to the modern pictures of Shia during the Ashura, none display any kind of non-flagellating member standing above the crowd and doing the punishment without receiving any.

I don't really mind not totally adhering to historical precedent. Because it's not a historical recreation, it's science fiction. But, logically, I think she makes sense to be there. She's an overseer for the otherwise exiled Repentia, and the one who observes and judges when they have earned their forgiveness.

I also think that she makes for an interesting squad leader that fits with the theme of her unit, rather than just a generic Sister of some sort.

 Troike wrote:
I don't really mind not totally adhering to historical precedent.

Me neither, but this is not about history. The Seventh Seal, if you have not seen it, is all about ambiance and atmosphere. It is a great movie, but it has no pretension at historical accuracy, and it is a good things because it would not meet them in any way. The mistress does not fit the archetype/trope/idea/… of the religious flagellant.

If there really needs to be someone deciding which sisters are worthy to be reintegrated, I would rather see a Sister with a big book redacting everything that happens and not taking any active role in the battle.

I could get behind replacing the Mistress with a grudgebearer.

Also, I'm fairly sure that 'my' Mistress model has had a headswap, since she has a standard Sabbat helm. ^^; either that or its just been greenstuffed - I didn't paint her, she actually belongs to my little brother.

Ahhh, greenstuffing away strange armor holes! Did that to change the metal bras of my daughters-of-the-flame cultist count-as into breastplates.
How old is your little brother?

he's 24 now, but he acquired his Sisters models back when he was seventeen or so, I believe.

He has been obscenely talented at modelling/painting since he was about twelve though. ><

Oh, so little here did not mean he actually was young .
He is playing Sisters too?

^^; He's also taller than me, so 'little brother' is really something of an ironic term (although he is two years younger).

He doesn't really play at all any more, but his armies were Sisters, Templars and Tyranids. Oh, and a rather nice Valhallan/Bolshevik guard army.

You both had a Sister army, or you shared one army?
(I do the same with my own 3-year-younger brother, who is also taller , and way more muscled than me, to tease him )

We both had our Sisters armies, although (true to form), I had more vehicles and he had more infantry. I have custody of most of his army these days (except the seraphim, which he refuses to let out of his sight for some reason) since I still play and if you put them both together, they make a sizable force... although it does look a little odd since his are Martyred Lady and mine are Sacred Tome.

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:Did they increase the fetish factor on WFB too ?

Hmm, it probably depends on your "personal threshold".



But all in all, no, I think this is mainly a 40k thing. And not just in terms of fetish - I think 40k is more "over the top" than WHFB in general, simply because the franchise is a wild mixture of just about everything that quite often embraces the crazy, whereas WHFB is "just" fantasy.

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:Seriously, that helmet, that cape, those whips… am I the only one who finds the connection with sexually-charged imagery obvious and unfitting here?

Maybe you just have a lower threshold, as far as the overlap is concerned.

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:That, or 2nd edition cover. Because really, that Sister must be painfully slim to even fit in this armor…

Yeah. What really gets me is how so many people only seem to know this one piece of ancient SoB art, but none of the other 23962 official images that, in my opinion, give a much better impression.

Don't get me wrong, the are parts of this Blanche picture that I like (specifically, the background is quite awesome), but the slim shape and the heels just kill it for me.

And yes, +1 @ Andrea Uderzo. Still my favourite, too.

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:As opposed to your more… educated tastes ?

Hmm, it's difficult to describe. It's not that I don't like porn, but part of me just considers it wrong to "besmirch" something by twisting and sexualising it in a way that is incompatible with what the original concept stands for. In my opinion, it is quite possible to insert erotica into a theme without breaking the mold - you just need to respect the background's boundaries and be clever about what would still fit to the idea.

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:Consider me very unconvinced. If you are religious and want more pain, you wear something like that:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cilice

But this hurts all the time, not just when you fail.

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:If you are more shooting-oriented (and Sisters sure do, only repentia and sister superior use any kind of close combat weapons) [...]

"Even amongst the highly skilled warriors of the Orders Militant, some Battle Sisters prove themselves to be exceptionally talented. These are organised into Seraphim squads and the Sisters Superior teach them the ancient fighting techniques which have been passed on down the millennia since the Daughters of the Emperor were founded. These include methods of unarmed fighting and armed hand-to-hand combat, as well as using sophisticated equipment such as jump packs."
- 2E C:SoB

"The Seraphim utilise jump packs and are experts in hand to hand combat, while the Celestians are most often fielded as bodyguards for Adepta Sororitas leaders, focusing their hatred of the unholy to protect their charge.
- 3E C:WH

So yeah, I can see wrestling matches.

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:And I do not see even those sisters that use melee weapon training by doing naked wrestle matches either, they would focus on their weapon of choice and there is no way you can train on using a chainsword, a powersword, a mace or an eviscerator naked.

Sure you can. You just shouldn't switch them on.
That aside, I think the most common close combat weapon would be a normal, unpowered blade issued to the rank-and-file Battle Sisters, rather than the chain- and power weapons issued only to squad leaders and elites. Perhaps something like those cutlasses they had in Dawn of War?

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:You are making excuses for depicting something very specific that does not in any way naturally comes out of the themes that Sisters of Battle emphasize. If you like looking at naked women fighting each other with swords, that is okay, but why have them be Sisters of Battle? If you want to depict Sisters of Battle, why would you have them striped out of their iconic gear (the power armor), and in some situation that has nothing to do with their theme (religious zealotry, excessive wealth, …)

As mentioned earlier in this post, there are areas where erotica and professional soldiering can overlap - I also didn't consider the naked kendo lesson in that Battletech novel particularly out-of-character. Somewhat weird, certainly, but still fitting the theme (and Katana Tormark is a bit weird as a person, in general).
I guess we just seem to have different thresholds of where we draw the line. I don't mind sexy Sororitas - if they were not sexualised. There is a difference.

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:If you are referring to the picture I think you are referring to, it is something completely different to what you are describing. It is body horror, and utterly unsexy. It does not evoke at all S&M, because stuff like recently gouged out eye, or almost shaved head with a bionic hole with badly scared skin around it, do not evoke S&M (or any activity from which one could derive pleasure).

I have a feeling you'd judge the picture differently if you had the exact same girls getting whipped by the Repentia Mistress.
And if you think that the Repentia Mistress' mini is about "Slaanesh cultists having a good time", then I don't see how you could judge that picture differently - considering that Slaanesh is about all extreme experiences, not just pleasure but pain as well!

Don't tell me you can't see the link between flagellation as a BDSM practice and the religious one! It is one of the paths to religious ecstasy, dontchano.

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:Rather than ancient Greek statues or nazi propaganda film, look for inspiration on (NSFW because tons of actual blood) here. Does those picture look sexy, or horrifying?

You really don't see that they have potential for both? All depending on camera angle, background, the body of the person in question, and the instrument that was used. Try to mentally replace those naked men with naked women, and the wooden boards with cats-o-nine-tails, and reconsider your question.

You're mixing two different topics here, though, and seem to conflate my previous statements into a single one - which I fear might twist my words. So are we talking about naked Sisters standing watch, or flagellation?

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:Does not mean it is fitting to the Sisters in any way. There are tons of stuff the Greek did that would totally not be fitted for Sisters, if you get what I mean. There has never been any kind of Greek inspiration in the Sisters.

There has never been a lot of stuff for the Sisters, simply because the amount of fluff is limited.
Do you know what style of martial arts their is derived from?

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:I stand by my words: if you are going out your or someone else's eye for pleasure, you need psychiatric help. Same if you shave their head, drill a hole in it, and put some metal stuff in there, or if you put needles through half of their faces, piercing their eyes in the process. If you just do light whipping and bondage and stuff like that, who care, but actual torture that you would die from without medical assistance?

Are you re-defining the term "torture" here?

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:Me neither, but this is not about history. The Seventh Seal, if you have not seen it, is all about ambiance and atmosphere. It is a great movie, but it has no pretension at historical accuracy, and it is a good things because it would not meet them in any way. The mistress does not fit the archetype/trope/idea/… of the religious flagellant.

You mean apart from "person A gets whipped by person B to achieve purity" being the very first case of flagellation on record? And whippings administered by a priest having been ritualised?

Furyou Miko wrote:He doesn't really play at all any more, but his armies were Sisters, Templars and Tyranids. Oh, and a rather nice Valhallan/Bolshevik guard army.

I approve of your little brother. Apart from 'nids, he is covering all my bases.

 Lynata wrote:


To some, they're Guardsmen in power armour, issued with downsized bolters and light armour, and good enough to triumph over some Orcs and Renegade IG.
To some, they're GW's female equivalent to Space Marines; elite warriors driven by burning faith and hatred, taking on - and having a chance to defeat - anything from heretics to xenos, from daemons to CSM.
To some, they're a penitent order whose members live a life of intense hardship, discipline and mortification of the body, entirely focused on cleansing themselves and everyone else.
To some, they're just jerk-off material.

This may just be an anecdote, but there's more interpretations than that. For example, I consider them neither 'basically femSM' nor 'Guardsmen in PA'. In my interpretation they are significantly superior to Guardsmen, due to being considerably more skilled but just as not much if not more due to the mighty PA and Bolter. Space-magic is a plus. ( ) On the other hand, they are firmly far below Marines, as despite their faith and wargear, they are still but humans, instead of living, superfast, superskilled MBTs.

Oh, sure, there's going to be lots of levels in-between - I was just listing the extremes. Though your interpretation is pretty close to my first example, given the levels of discipline and training that some Guard regiments (Cadians) are gifted with, making their equipment the main difference.
The "true" nature of their miracles is yet another aspect where there are conflicting interpretations - both between the fans, as well as different sources.

 Lynata wrote:
But all in all, no, I think this is mainly a 40k thing. And not just in terms of fetish - I think 40k is more "over the top" than WHFB in general, simply because the franchise is a wild mixture of just about everything that quite often embraces the crazy, whereas WHFB is "just" fantasy.

I think it is more about the fact WFB flagellants are men rather than women, hence receive different treatment but maybe that is just me.

 Lynata wrote:
Hmm, it's difficult to describe. It's not that I don't like porn, but part of me just considers it wrong to "besmirch" something by twisting and sexualising it in a way that is incompatible with what the original concept stands for. In my opinion, it is quite possible to insert erotica into a theme without breaking the mold - you just need to respect the background's boundaries and be clever about what would still fit to the idea.

Well, I would prefer not inserting erotica into a theme where it does not naturally fit at all. This does not even require being clever, and leaves room for the billions of other contexts that are appropriate for “erotica insertion” .

 Lynata wrote:
But this hurts all the time, not just when you fail.

Try it, and tell me how much it protected you from harm when being attacked with a club or with an edge. Make a comparison with how much it hurt when you were naked. Just try, and tell me!

 Lynata wrote:
Sure you can. You just shouldn't switch them on.

No. Does not work. Especially for chain weapon. I am pretty sure the chain will pull your sword when the teeth bite through the flesh. If you are not used to that pulling forward, you might even let go of your weapon when actually fighting.

 Lynata wrote:
That aside, I think the most common close combat weapon would be a normal, unpowered blade issued to the rank-and-file Battle Sisters, rather than the chain- and power weapons issued only to squad leaders and elites.

There never ever was something like that on the tabletop in the history of ever, as far as I can tell. I would not mind getting a second attack in close combat, but apparently Sisters just use bolt pistols when in close combat.

 Lynata wrote:
As mentioned earlier in this post, there are areas where erotica and professional soldiering can overlap

Yeah, greek soldiers “bounding” with each other . But extremist warrior-nuns? Not unless you twist everything to fit your purpose.

 Lynata wrote:
I also didn't consider the naked kendo lesson in that Battletech novel particularly out-of-character.

I have no idea, I do not know anything about Battletech. I guess it is about mechs or something.

 Lynata wrote:
I don't mind sexy Sororitas - if they were not sexualised. There is a difference.

You mean that you do not mind sisters being put naked for the most peculiar of reasons in order to titillate the viewer provided that there is some vague way to rationalize the art?

 Lynata wrote:
I have a feeling you'd judge the picture differently if you had the exact same girls getting whipped by the Repentia Mistress.

There is some hooded, armored figure that can be seen scourging her own troops on the picture. She is scourging the arcoflagellant rather than the sisters, but she does not seem anywhere near S&M-like as the mistress miniature.

 Lynata wrote:
All depending on camera angle, background, the body of the person in question, and the instrument that was used.

Then use the goddamn right camera angles, background, bodies and instruments!

 Lynata wrote:
Try to mentally replace those naked men with naked women, and the wooden boards with cats-o-nine-tails, and reconsider your question.

Which wooden board? And sorry, way too many blood spilled all over to not be horrible .

 Lynata wrote:
So are we talking about naked Sisters standing watch, or flagellation?

I do not know, both I guess. I mean, for me the only right reason to depict naked sisters is about flagellation/repentia, and from the horrifying angle rather than the sexy one.

 Lynata wrote:
There has never been a lot of stuff for the Sisters, simply because the amount of fluff is limited.

That is not the reason why they were not linked to ancient Greek. Or, rather, that is not the reason why there are no fluff justification to draw sisters erotica/porn . I mean, that is just in direct contradiction to their theme!

 Lynata wrote:
You mean apart from "person A gets whipped by person B to achieve purity" being the very first case of flagellation on record? And whippings administered by a priest having been ritualised?

Do you know the difference between what you translated from the German Wikipedia and what I described? The relation of dominance, where the one doing the whipping is basically in a position of power over the one being whipped. Relations of dominance being, by the way, as far as I know, very popular in S&M.
I would have no problem is the whipping was administered by the “Self-flagellants” servitors described in Blood of Martyr.

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:I think it is more about the fact WFB flagellants are men rather than women, hence receive different treatment but maybe that is just me.

Good point.
I still think WHFB is less "crazy" than 40k in general, but I also feel a .. shall we say "different design vision" when it comes to anything female in the franchise.

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:Well, I would prefer not inserting erotica into a theme where it does not naturally fit at all. This does not even require being clever, and leaves room for the billions of other contexts that are appropriate for “erotica insertion”

But why do you believe erotica would not "naturally fit at all" to the Sororitas - if looked at from an outside perspective (i.e. us, the reader)?
James Swallow described some people getting "impure thoughts" looking at Hospitaller Verity in Faith & Fire. I did not consider this "naturally unfitting" to 40k at all.

As Troike already said, it is a matter of interpretation. In-universe, too. I'm sure the Sisters must seem somewhat crazy to a lot of outsiders, and not just when it comes to what some people might describe as "BDSM".
Where do you think the concept of nunsploitation stems from? It certainly did not pop into existence out of thin air, but instead built upon outsiders' fantasies and bias based on very real occurences and rituals that were simply interpreted differently by those who do not practice them.

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:Try it, and tell me how much it protected you from harm when being attacked with a club or with an edge. Make a comparison with how much it hurt when you were naked. Just try, and tell me!

You try it, you are making this argument.
Also, who is talking about protection? A cilice's purpose is not protection, but to elicit pain. Constantly. Which ... kind of goes against the idea of feeling pain only when failing to block an incoming blow.

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:No. Does not work. Especially for chain weapon. I am pretty sure the chain will pull your sword when the teeth bite through the flesh. If you are not used to that pulling forward, you might even let go of your weapon when actually fighting.

What's your reasoning for dismissing the (blunt!) edge of a power sword?
And again: I suggested from the start that they could be training defense, not attack. It matters little whether you are being attacked with a chainsword, a power sword, or a hypothetical CCW for rank-and-file Battle Sisters if you are supposed to parry the damn thing.

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:You mean that you do not mind sisters being put naked for the most peculiar of reasons in order to titillate the viewer provided that there is some vague way to rationalize the art?

This is a flawed (and self-contradictory) question loaded with your personal assessment of the situation. Let me rephrase it for you: Do I mean that I wouldn't mind Sisters being put naked in order to titillate the viewer if there is some rationalisation that would not result in me considering it peculiar? Yes.

Obviously, this should not happen often - at the very least not in official publications. But I have the same reservations against naked Sisters that I have against naked Daemonettes, naked Guardsmen, naked Space Marines or naked Hive Gangers: none. It just has to fit to the occasion and, to me, seem 100% compatible with the background, lest it may threaten their perception as an army.

Examples of what I could imagine: a fully naked vigil (as described in an official GW core publication) in some tomb, a scene of self-flagellation or corporal punishment, a Repentia with nothing covering her breasts, a Hospitaller providing first aid to a bare-chested woman.

Maybe I'm a perv. Maybe I'm just very liberal when it comes to depictions of nude flesh. Could be a European/Ex-GDR thing.

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:Which wooden board? And sorry, way too many blood spilled all over to not be horrible

Those ... things they use for beating themselves. Those are not the traditional whips, scoriadas, etc after all.

As for the blood ... well, you could always stop watching after the first few minutes.

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:That is not the reason why they were not linked to ancient Greek.

Oh! I just remembered something:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarissa

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:Do you know the difference between what you translated from the German Wikipedia and what I described? The relation of dominance, where the one doing the whipping is basically in a position of power over the one being whipped. Relations of dominance being, by the way, as far as I know, very popular in S&M.

Except that a priest is superior to a monk.
Wasn't the guy whipping the dude in Name of the Rose a priest, too? It's been a while, but I distinctly recall him being in a position of power.
Also, just recently there was kind of a big scandal here in Ireland with nuns using corporal punishment on children. Though I think we've heard similar stories from all over the world.

"Increasingly, violence was also embedded in the rules. Seventh century rules, stemming from the inspiration of Columbanus, tend to be harsher and more detailed in prescribing punishment than sixth century rules. This probably reflects the growing experience of the monastic regulators. Maternal discipline did not spare the rod. Abbess Rictrude’s daughter Eusebia, who was determined to escape from her mother’s convent in order to take up her inherited responsibilities as abbess in her deceased grandmother’s community, was so severely beaten for her insubordination that she coughed blood for the rest of her life."
- Vita St. Rictrudis 26, Acta Sanctorum

And hey, apparently crucification is still in fashion today, too.

The 2E Codex:SoB was fairly clear about a culture of pain and punishment within the Imperial Cult. I have no idea why you think this would cease to exist once applied to a Sororitas convent, of all things. Where the Sisters Superior "adopt" young Sisters into their Squad, becoming surrogate mothers also responsible for maintaining discipline and spiritual health. What is your opinion on the relation of dominance regarding a mother spanking her child? Is this just BDSM, too, or not rather something that could be interpreted in different ways depending on the observer?

"It is our creed that the purpose of life is to suffer, for in this way we become one with the Emperor's eternal suffering. Have you not heard that those who suffer are blessed?"
- 3E Rulebook

 Lynata wrote:
I still think WHFB is less "crazy" than 40k in general

True, but Empire and (to a lesser extent) Bretonnia seems to be the place where all the weird, crazy 40k-esque illustrations goes.

 Lynata wrote:
But why do you believe erotica would not "naturally fit at all" to the Sororitas - if looked at from an outside perspective (i.e. us, the reader)?
James Swallow described some people getting "impure thoughts" looking at Hospitaller Verity in Faith & Fire. I did not consider this "naturally unfitting" to 40k at all.

He also described people thinking Sisters were eating men. Do you yearn for fanart of cannibalistic sisters?

 Lynata wrote:
Where do you think the concept of nunsploitation stems from? It certainly did not pop into existence out of thin air, but instead built upon outsiders' fantasies and bias based on very real occurences and rituals that were simply interpreted differently by those who do not practice them.

It certainly came out of outsider's fantasies and this whole mentality of pure/impure. It certainly was not akin to a documentary on the actual practice in convent. It is the same thing that inspire all that Sister snuff. Yet you seem to consider your stuff as somehow above this .

 Lynata wrote:
Do I mean that I wouldn't mind Sisters being put naked in order to titillate the viewer if there is some rationalisation that would not result in me considering it peculiar? Yes.
[…]
It just has to fit to the occasion and, to me, seem 100% compatible with the background, lest it may threaten their perception as an army.
[…]
Examples of what I could imagine: a fully naked vigil (as described in an official GW core publication) in some tomb, a scene of self-flagellation or corporal punishment, a Repentia with nothing covering her breasts, a Hospitaller providing first aid to a bare-chested woman.

See, that last example, just like that “training naked”, does not feel natural at all to me. It strikes me of “How could I find a way to draw a sister naked, and then pretend it is because of some fluff reason”, rather than “What situation would a Sister likely find herself in?”.
Honestly, even the traditional awful snuff with a Slaaneshi marine raping a Sisters feel less contrived and more fluffy/natural, for all its bad taste…

 Lynata wrote:
Maybe I'm a perv. Maybe I'm just very liberal when it comes to depictions of nude flesh. Could be a European/Ex-GDR thing.

Well, I am just as European as you are, as the flag next to my name imply. And I mentioned that picture with the naked repentia as one of my favorite many time (even used it as an avatar). I also repeatedly referenced a movie for young children with a lot of nudity. Now, you somehow seem to want to see attractive, perfect bodies in illustrations of Sisters.

 Lynata wrote:
Those ... things they use for beating themselves. Those are not the traditional whips, scoriadas, etc after all.

They are knives.

 Lynata wrote:
As for the blood ... well, you could always stop watching after the first few minutes.

Why would I want to watch the first few minutes of people cutting themselves with knives and spreading blood all over in a display of religious hysteria outside of over-the-top fiction like 40k ?
No, that does not turn me on.

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:He also described people thinking Sisters were eating men. Do you yearn for fanart of cannibalistic sisters?

I certainly would be curious as to how exactly this perception came to be. Aren't you?

I imagine it's likely to be an unfounded rumour based on the whole fact of "isolated place, no men allowed", and that the Sisters display a no-nonsense attitude in their dealings.

If you think this is equal to the very real possibility of looking at a (fully dressed) Sister and thinking she's attractive, then I'm gonna have to say you are reaching quite a bit.

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:It certainly came out of outsider's fantasies and this whole mentality of pure/impure. It certainly was not akin to a documentary on the actual practice in convent. It is the same thing that inspire all that Sister snuff. Yet you seem to consider your stuff as somehow above this .

Because "my stuff" (?) would be the documentary that just happens to (sometimes) include nudity. This is what I've been saying all along.

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:See, that last example, just like that “training naked”, does not feel natural at all to me. It strikes me of “How could I find a way to draw a sister naked, and then pretend it is because of some fluff reason”, rather than “What situation would a Sister likely find herself in?”.
Honestly, even the traditional awful snuff with a Slaaneshi marine raping a Sisters feel less contrived and more fluffy/natural, for all its bad taste…

Really, now?

Soldiers on a battlefield get injured. Sometimes in the chest. If they've got a medic, they will receive medical attention. Showing this doesn't seem to be an issue with male soldiers, but I guess women are taboo because omg boobies?

In my opinion, it is indeed more likely to see a Sister receive medical attention than it is for one to get raped by Slaaneshi CSM. On the simple account that the latter makes up maybe 1% of their overall battles, and that Sisters are trained not to get captured alive.

I also consider "accidental" or "coincidental" nudity a lot more tasteful than rape, both because the latter appears more contrived (at the very least in this context), and because unlike the former it does not attack the sanctity of the warrior in question.

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:Now, you somehow seem to want to see attractive, perfect bodies in illustrations of Sisters.

Now you're just putting words into my mouth.

Perhaps I should reiterate my position, as I have a feeling you're getting bits of what I'm saying wrong.

1. I don't mind nudity in SoB art, be it official or fan. As long as it is tasteful and fits to the theme.
2. Just because I might like to see this from time to time (very much depending on the picture) does not mean I want to see this becoming more common than the fully armoured depiction. I see this as an extension to the whole. It's a part of who they are - as women (breasts), as warriors (being in good shape), and as fanatics (castigation).
3. "Attraction" and "perfect bodies" is very much a matter of personal preferences, but the way you voiced it here sounds like you believe this to be incompatible with who the Sisters are, as if the only valid definition would be some big-breasted Hollywood cutie. What if I told you that muscular bodies can be nice to look at? Even if they have scars? It's an appreciation of the strength and power that these warriors - raised from infancy to become the epitome of human battle prowess - elicit with their every fibre of being.
Hence my earlier example of Riefenstahl's propaganda movie, or those ancient statues of gods and goddesses.


Only semi-NSFW this time.

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:They are knives.

Ah, I guess local traditions differ considerably. I admit I didn't check out the pictures up-close because I've already seen similar ones 1-2 years ago as I read up on the topic of flagellation - and there it was some sort of wooden sticks bound to a rope.

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:Why would I want to watch the first few minutes of people cutting themselves with knives and spreading blood all over in a display of religious hysteria outside of over-the-top fiction like 40k ?

Because, just like I said, you could replace the people with Sisters and the knives with whips, just like it'd be done in 40k, and how it was actually common in monastic communities.

The knife and wooden sticks thing seems to be a very odd distortion of traditional flagellantism, apparently based on someone thinking that whips don't hurt enough, or perhaps these people just want to see blood spilt quicker than if it was the case with straps of leather. Either way, it's not a very good comparison to what we're talking about here, and I'd argue you have intentionally chosen an exaggerated display in an attempt to lend your words more weight.

Imho, better examples would be the aforementioned Name of the Rose, or Arn the Templar (also a very recommendable movie in general, by the way).

I think it's more that people are a little disgusted by super-muscular women. I hear women aren't into super buff dudes either. There's a limit and being a super roid 'hulk' monster doesn't always fit that.

There's also the issue that society looks down on men that are weaker than women so it can be a bit intimidating to want a woman stronger than the guy in question. There's also a similar thing with men and women when gaming. Honestly skill matters but if i'll be made fun of for being beaten by a girl no matter who says it then it makes me want to play against them less. In a sense I'm less worried about what me or often the girl think so much as what everybody else is taunting me with. Normally I feel more insulted when a less experienced person beats me at something. I feel like experience should have a lot of say so when an inexperienced person beats someone that is more experienced it's like a slap in the face to all the time spent honing your craft.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
I think it's more that people are a little disgusted by super-muscular women. I hear women aren't into super buff dudes either. There's a limit and being a super roid 'hulk' monster doesn't always fit that.

There's also the issue that society looks down on men that are weaker than women so it can be a bit intimidating to want a woman stronger than the guy in question. There's also a similar thing with men and women when gaming. Honestly skill matters but if i'll be made fun of for being beaten by a girl no matter who says it then it makes me want to play against them less. In a sense I'm less worried about what me or often the girl think so much as what everybody else is taunting me with. Normally I feel more insulted when a less experienced person beats me at something. I feel like experience should have a lot of say so when an inexperienced person beats someone that is more experienced it's like a slap in the face to all the time spent honing your craft.

That's a problem that people, and society, are going to need to get over. Women (nor men) do not exist to please an audience.

Exalted.

 Lynata wrote:
I certainly would be curious as to how exactly this perception came to be. Aren't you?

No, I am not.
Whatever those simplistic guys want to believe is their business .

 Lynata wrote:
Because "my stuff" (?) would be the documentary that just happens to (sometimes) include nudity. This is what I've been saying all along.

Maybe there is some misunderstanding then. The propaganda movie you mentioned (not a documentary, but that is the closest you mention) was about “glorification of the human (aryan) body”, so I understood you were speaking about putting particularly healthy and attractive bodies, not just nudity. Your other examples (statues from Ancient Greece and Rome) and especially the text that came after (“In these cases, what can make it sexy is the sheer purity of essence - an attractive body coupled with the specific absence of a sexualised pose.”) seemed to emphasize that.

 Lynata wrote:
Soldiers on a battlefield get injured. Sometimes in the chest. If they've got a medic, they will receive medical attention. Showing this doesn't seem to be an issue with male soldiers, but I guess women are taboo because omg boobies?

I do not think I ever saw a picture of a wounded guardsman that would normally wear armor on his chest as part of his uniform, but was bare chest because some medic needed to heal him. And I think I know why: most weapon capable of piercing the armor of, say, a Cadian, will leave his chest a bloody pulp. Now, imagine what some weapon capable of piercing power armor would do to some human chest!
Honestly, the problem here is showing something that you would never show with male soldier, because nobody is interested in seeing the wounded chest of a Cadian or a Marine when it requires to defy common sense like that!
But if I am wrong and you have multiple examples of drawing of Cadian and Marines removing their chest armor to be healed, please provide them. Given how much more official artwork there is on those than on Sisters, it should not be hard, should it?

 Lynata wrote:
In my opinion, it is indeed more likely to see a Sister receive medical attention than it is for one to get raped by Slaaneshi CSM. On the simple account that the latter makes up maybe 1% of their overall battles, and that Sisters are trained not to get captured alive.

Receive medical attention, yes. Remove all chest armor in the middle of a battle? And where did you find that Sisters are trained not to get captured alive?
Also by that logic, there should be no picture of Grey Knight ever, and billions of pictures of orks.

 Lynata wrote:
I also consider "accidental" or "coincidental" nudity a lot more tasteful than rape, both because the latter appears more contrived (at the very least in this context), and because unlike the former it does not attack the sanctity of the warrior in question.

I agree it is more tasteful, I disagree it appears more contrived. On the contrary, “accidental” nudity happening all the time to female characters and basically never for male characters seems goddamn contrived to me. Especially when Emperor's Children are known for doing that to you before turning you into a drug and snorting you.

 Lynata wrote:
1. I don't mind nudity in SoB art, be it official or fan. As long as it is tasteful and fits to the theme.

Me too, but I disagree with you on what fits the theme.

 Lynata wrote:
2. Just because I might like to see this from time to time (very much depending on the picture) does not mean I want to see this becoming more common than the fully armoured depiction. I see this as an extension to the whole. It's a part of who they are - as women (breasts), as warriors (being in good shape), and as fanatics (castigation).

Why have it more often than for marines of guardsmen?
I mean, apart from the obvious case of Repentia that always go naked, and for a reason.

 Lynata wrote:
What if I told you that muscular bodies can be nice to look at?

Tell me about it! There is this very muscled girl where I go climbing that has been in sport bra for the last two seance, seeing all the muscle of her back moving while she was climbing was just mesmerizing. Not sexy by any measure, but definitely a very nice sight.
However, 40k is more home to bionics and body horror, especially in “grimdark” armies like the Sisters. Catachan are the exception to that rule .

 Lynata wrote:
Hence my earlier example of Riefenstahl's propaganda movie, or those ancient statues of gods and goddesses.

Well, neither statues of goddess, nor La liberté guidant le peuple include much muscle, or any kind of athletic build.

 Lynata wrote:
Ah, I guess local traditions differ considerably. I admit I didn't check out the pictures up-close because I've already seen similar ones 1-2 years ago as I read up on the topic of flagellation - and there it was some sort of wooden sticks bound to a rope.

No idea. I just made a google image search on Ashura. Wkipedia says nothing about wooden sticks, it speaks only of knives and blade at the end of chains.

 Lynata wrote:
The knife and wooden sticks thing seems to be a very odd distortion of traditional flagellantism, apparently based on someone thinking that whips don't hurt enough, or perhaps these people just want to see blood spilt quicker than if it was the case with straps of leather.

Hey, you know it is not the same religion, do you not? You know, Shia Islam and stuff. I mean, rather than bizarre speculation, just read the Wikipedia page on Ashura or something.

 Lynata wrote:
Either way, it's not a very good comparison to what we're talking about here, and I'd argue you have intentionally chosen an exaggerated display in an attempt to lend your words more weight.

Imho, better examples would be the aforementioned Name of the Rose, or Arn the Templar (also a very recommendable movie in general, by the way).

I have seen neither of those movies, but I am pretty sure 40k is all about turning everything up to eleven. Repentia on that picture I like so much are pretty much that, Ashura turned up to eleven. Have you looked at them?

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:Maybe there is some misunderstanding then. The propaganda movie you mentioned (not a documentary, but that is the closest you mention) was about “glorification of the human (aryan) body”, so I understood you were speaking about putting particularly healthy and attractive bodies, not just nudity. Your other examples (statues from Ancient Greece and Rome) and especially the text that came after (“In these cases, what can make it sexy is the sheer purity of essence - an attractive body coupled with the specific absence of a sexualised pose.”) seemed to emphasize that.

I'm not sure - I mean, we're talking about Battle Sisters here. Barring old age or particularly bad injuries, I just cannot imagine them not looking healthy and, depending on one's taste, attractive.

That being said:

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:Tell me about it! There is this very muscled girl where I go climbing that has been in sport bra for the last two seance, seeing all the muscle of her back moving while she was climbing was just mesmerizing. Not sexy by any measure, but definitely a very nice sight.

Are you sure it does not qualify as sexy if it's mesmerising?

I dunno, maybe we're talking a bit past one another here, and my definition of "sexy" is broader than yours. When I say "sexy", it does not have to refer to something you can masturbate to, but something that is just ... well, nice to look at. I think you could say I'm using it as an alternative for "attractive", though this term doesn't feel quite right either.

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:I do not think I ever saw a picture of a wounded guardsman that would normally wear armor on his chest as part of his uniform, but was bare chest because some medic needed to heal him. And I think I know why: most weapon capable of piercing the armor of, say, a Cadian, will leave his chest a bloody pulp. Now, imagine what some weapon capable of piercing power armor would do to some human chest!
Honestly, the problem here is showing something that you would never show with male soldier, because nobody is interested in seeing the wounded chest of a Cadian or a Marine when it requires to defy common sense like that!
But if I am wrong and you have multiple examples of drawing of Cadian and Marines removing their chest armor to be healed, please provide them. Given how much more official artwork there is on those than on Sisters, it should not be hard, should it?

This is a bit of an unfair task, given that - as you well know - 40k does not place a great deal of importance upon medical aid as opposed to "the cool stuff" of killing and maiming.
That being said, WD #102 has an article about Apothecaries that does feature a medevac of a Crimson Fists Marine with a huge hole in his chest where both the armour and the skin have melted away, exposing the flesh underneath.
There are also multiple pictures of naked Marines undergoing geneseed implantation in the Index Astartes.

The assumption that anything that damages power armour must automatically wreak havoc to the soft bits it encloses is flawed. Most often this will probably be the case, yet there will be numerous times where the armour took sufficient energy out of the attack to soften it sufficiently to make it non-lethal. The explosion of a bolter round or a las blast, for example, could just punch a really big hole into the armour, yet with the center of said detonation being situated outside of the wearer's body (namely within or on the surface of the armour), the body below could take comparatively light damage.
And in fact, this is exactly how it works in GW's own d100 game, Inquisitor.

What do you think the Hospitaller's FNP buff stands for?

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:And where did you find that Sisters are trained not to get captured alive?

Okay, in retrospect I recall this aspect being specifically pointed out only in licensed material such as DoW or Faith & Fire. I believe it to be quite fitting, almost a matter of common sense given the army's focus on martyrdom, so I adopted it for my interpretation. If you feel differently and think Sisters would just allow themselves to get taken prisoner, simply discard this point please.

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:Also by that logic, there should be no picture of Grey Knight ever, and billions of pictures of orks.

In-universe? I guess so.
Out-of-universe, as in "taken by an omniscient, invisible observer that accompanies every army in every single battle"? An entirely different story - and what we are really talking about here. Unless you want to tell me all Codex artwork was taken by the Imperium's version of Reuters.

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:I agree it is more tasteful, I disagree it appears more contrived. On the contrary, “accidental” nudity happening all the time to female characters and basically never for male characters seems goddamn contrived to me. Especially when Emperor's Children are known for doing that to you before turning you into a drug and snorting you.

I specifically said "I do not want to see this becoming more common than the fully armoured depiction".
The thing is, and I suppose this is where we disagree, I also do not want there to be some silly taboo supposed to result in never showing this, ever, regardless of how much it is part of convent life.

Also, ironically, we have more images of naked Marines than we have of naked Battle Sisters.

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:Why have it more often than for marines of guardsmen?

See above.

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:Well, neither statues of goddess, nor La liberté guidant le peuple include much muscle, or any kind of athletic build.

With those comparisons I was more aiming at the poses they struck. The physical form of both statues as well as drawn females probably reflected the beauty ideal of their times, and arguably this has changed a lot over the centuries. The very first statuettes and figurines depicting goddesses were basically barrel-shaped, likely in reference to fertility.

That being said ... Venus does seem to sport a slight sixpack.

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:Hey, you know it is not the same religion, do you not? You know, Shia Islam and stuff. I mean, rather than bizarre speculation, just read the Wikipedia page on Ashura or something.

Okay, then you've confused me earlier. I was expecting flagellation, the Christian practice, since we were ... well, talking about flagellation. Not something else.

I've never heard about Ashura until now. Interesting, though.

Anyway, to get back on topic. James Swallow wrote an audio book for the sisters called 'Black and Red' which I enjoyed as we got to hear voice actresses and bolter fire. Look it up, it's pretty fun if short (75 min run time)

^ Agreed!

Personally, I found the voices just a tad repetetive (there's only two voice actresses, but they speak multiple roles), but I really liked how they made the Tech-Priest's talk sound. Very inspiring, in an RPG kind of sense.

Also, it's a continuation (or rather, a prequel) of Miriya's story, which should be reason enough to get it for anyone who likes SoB.

 Lynata wrote:
Barring old age or particularly bad injuries, I just cannot imagine them not looking healthy and, depending on one's taste, attractive.

Healthy, maybe, but no reason for attractive, and very repealing bionics and scars are to be expected.

 Lynata wrote:
Are you sure it does not qualify as sexy if it's mesmerising?

Yeah.

 Lynata wrote:
When I say "sexy", it does not have to refer to something you can masturbate to, but something that is just ... well, nice to look at.

Let me point the obvious. Sexy include sex. If something is entirely unrelated to sex, does it make sense to call it sexy?

 Lynata wrote:
This is a bit of an unfair task, given that - as you well know - 40k does not place a great deal of importance upon medical aid as opposed to "the cool stuff" of killing and maiming.

That is why making a special exception but just for Sisters and just by chance happening to use that special exception for a boob shot would feel contrived.

 Lynata wrote:
That being said, WD #102 has an article about Apothecaries that does feature a medevac of a Crimson Fists Marine with a huge hole in his chest where both the armour and the skin have melted away, exposing the flesh underneath.

Then we do not get to see his skin, right? How does that illustrate your point? Can we see his nipples or something?

 Lynata wrote:
There are also multiple pictures of naked Marines undergoing geneseed implantation in the Index Astartes.

Really?

 Lynata wrote:
Out-of-universe, as in "taken by an omniscient, invisible observer that accompanies every army in every single battle"? An entirely different story - and what we are really talking about here. Unless you want to tell me all Codex artwork was taken by the Imperium's version of Reuters.

So, that omniscient invisible observer will quietly wait for a case where an Hospitalier is forced to remove the armor from a militant sister, and anything they may wear underneath the armor, get the right angle to have boobs in its visor, and then take the picture? He would take a picture of that very very rare (compared to, you know, sisters shooting stuff, or sisters dying when being shot at, or sisters getting injury that do not require stripping out of their armor and getting naked) occasion, and display it prominently. But for some reason, the same omniscient invisible observer would not take a picture of a sister being raped by a slaaneshi marine, because those event are too rare?

 Lynata wrote:
I specifically said "I do not want to see this becoming more common than the fully armoured depiction".

Let us just settle on it happening exactly as often as with male character. That is, basically never!

 Lynata wrote:
The thing is, and I suppose this is where we disagree, I also do not want there to be some silly taboo supposed to result in never showing this, ever, regardless of how much it is part of convent life.

Guardsmen taking a piss is a part of any regiment's life. I will not mind if there are no artworks of it, because it is not an interesting thing to depict. Or is it?

 Lynata wrote:
Also, ironically, we have more images of naked Marines than we have of naked Battle Sisters.

In plain number, I am not sure. In proportion, that is completely false.

 Lynata wrote:
Okay, then you've confused me earlier. I was expecting flagellation, the Christian practice, since we were ... well, talking about flagellation. Not something else.

Well, what the Sister do is not the Christian practice of flagellation, and I was referring to one of the real-world origins of what the Sisters do.

Well, what the Sister do is not the Christian practice of flagellation, and I was referring to one of the real-world origins of what the Sisters do.

Actually, it kinda is. Not just the self-flagellation but also their entire disciplinary lifestyle in the Schola Progena on up to life in the Convent is very much an old-style Catholic school cranked up to 11.

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:Healthy, maybe, but no reason for attractive, and very repealing bionics and scars are to be expected.

Didn't you just claim that anything that gets through the armour would kill the Sister in question?
And if Col. Straken is any indication, I don't think bionics would be that bad. Well, depending on how much you like or dislike transhumanist cyberpunk, I guess. I didn't appreciate all the "chrome" in Shadowrun at first, but over the years it grew on me. Now I don't mind people with metal arms or legs anymore.

Also, it's a bit ironic how you agree that Andrea Uderzo draws the best Sororitas art, yet claim they shouldn't be attractive. I mean, I certainly thought his Sisters are good-looking. As befits what I think is part of their role - an angelic, idealised representation of humankind as a species.

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:Let me point the obvious. Sexy include sex. If something is entirely unrelated to sex, does it make sense to call it sexy?

... yeah?

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sexy
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sexy

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:That is why making a special exception but just for Sisters and just by chance happening to use that special exception for a boob shot would feel contrived.

You are assuming I would oppose such displays for Marines and Guard. I do not.
In fact, I think 40k could use a couple more pictures that are something different from the usual "guy stands somewhere discharging a weapon", "guy walks towards the observer, a menacing look on his face" and "guy buries a close combat weapon into another guy".

I like to regard this setting as a living, breathing world, and thus it consists of more than weapons fire and ejected bolt shells. I miss the older publications that actually gave us more of a glimpse into the daily life.

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:Then we do not get to see his skin, right? How does that illustrate your point? Can we see his nipples or something?

If you really want to be splitting hairs - it illustrates my point in that, apparently, it is okay for 40k to show injured soldiers receiving medical treatment. And to treat this kind of wound you'd obviously have to remove the breastplate.
So are you saying that this picture is okay, but they should not show what happens 5 seconds later when they do remove the breastplate?

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:Really?

Yeah, here's one.

There's more, but I don't think there is a reason to go look them up now. Point being: Unlike this Marine, we've never seen a Sister being treated, and according to you, this should never happen.

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:So, that omniscient invisible observer will quietly wait for a case where an Hospitalier is forced to remove the armor from a militant sister, and anything they may wear underneath the armor, get the right angle to have boobs in its visor, and then take the picture? He would take a picture of that very very rare (compared to, you know, sisters shooting stuff, or sisters dying when being shot at, or sisters getting injury that do not require stripping out of their armor and getting naked) occasion, and display it prominently. But for some reason, the same omniscient invisible observer would not take a picture of a sister being raped by a slaaneshi marine, because those event are too rare?

You're intentionally being difficult now. I said it would be more likely for such a situation to occur, simply because Sisters get injured in the line of duty every single day.
When do they get to fight against CSM? Of a particular Chaos God? And get taken alive?

Thus, to me, a picture of the latter would feel quite a bit more contrived than the former, simply on account of one being everyday business, the other a once-in-a-century exception.

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:Let us just settle on it happening exactly as often as with male character. That is, basically never!

Do Space Marines count? Or Custodes? Maybe mercenaries? What about Eldar?

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:In plain number, I am not sure. In proportion, that is completely false.

In this post alone, I've shown you two naked Space Marines from official GW art. I can show you more on request.
You go ahead and show me a single picture of a naked Battle Sister now.

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:Guardsmen taking a piss is a part of any regiment's life. I will not mind if there are no artworks of it, because it is not an interesting thing to depict. Or is it?

Probably not, though I could imagine it as part of a larger scene intended to portray life in a garrison.

The thing is, I believe that stuff like a Sister standing vigil in a tomb is an interesting thing to depict. You may disagree, but you won't be able to convince me.

And maybe that's why we should call a truce, as we obviously have different interpretations of the Adepta Sororitas here, as well as different interpretations of a variety of other things.

Agree to disagree?

Yeesh lynata calm down. You always seem to let internet posts bother you. Just take a few deep breaths and use horse tranquilizers on yourself or something. I have some muscle relaxers from my doctor for severe back pain I got at work recently. Maybe that'll help you. I am off work till further notice though.

I have a question though. Regarding abhumans and some other genetic alterations or bionics how do the sisters view it? I know some ultra radical zealots might hate some of it but I can't remember what things they allowed and what things they strictly didn't (humanity in 40k is ridiculously blind, incompetent, hateful and pretty much every other trait that should see them destroyed in far less than 10,000 years). I haven't really played 40k in the longest time because I prefer fantasy. Over-the-top can be nice but a lot of 40k feels either emo or like a 8-12 year old narrating a story. To each their own I guess. Same reason I can't get lynata to play fantasy. I think he/she would enjoy it immensely though. For a second let's just pretend lynata transcends gender.

 Lynata wrote:
And if Col. Straken is any indication, I don't think bionics would be that bad. Well, depending on how much you like or dislike transhumanist cyberpunk, I guess.

Well, it is 40k, so I expect bionics to be grimdark and horrible looking and stuff. Like this hole on the head of the repentia sister here :

But maybe that is just me.

 Lynata wrote:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sexy
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sexy

Seems I used the first definitions of those links, you used the last one.

 Lynata wrote:
If you really want to be splitting hairs - it illustrates my point in that, apparently, it is okay for 40k to show injured soldiers receiving medical treatment.

Oh yeah, of course it is. My point was more that at least 99% of the medical treatment that Sisters would require on the battlefield would not involve boob-shot, and therefore having, for instance, 50% of the drawing of Sisters receiving medical treatment showing boobs would feel contrived and stupid.
Most medical interventions are going to be about limbs. Those that are going to be about chest damage will likely imply a big gaping hole through the armor anyway, and you would not want to remove the armor in the middle of the battlefield. And I do not expect the Sisters to be naked in their armor, just like nobody was naked under plate armor. I am pretty sure they wear cloth under the ceramite.
Occasionally seeing a boob in one out of many pictures of Sisters receiving medical treatment, okay, maybe, but there are not many pictures of Sisters receiving medical treatment. If we first change the later, then we can imagine the former. Until then, it is just idle discussion about something that is not going to ever happen .

 Lynata wrote:
Yeah, here's one.

Spoiler:

His chest is covered, only his arms and head are actually exposed. How the hell do you call that naked?
I have no problem with art that displays sisters with bare arms, provided their is a reason in context like in this picture. I am pretty sure nobody has.
The picture you show below from Wikia is actually naked, though. Just above in this very post, you will find a naked sister (except if you count those scraps of parchment that does not even cover her breasts or genitals as clothes). And yeah, we do not get a clear view of the sisters breast or vagina, but look again at that weird groin!
So, we have one against one. In plain numbers, we get a tie. In proportion though…

 Lynata wrote:
You're intentionally being difficult now. I said it would be more likely for such a situation to occur, simply because Sisters get injured in the line of duty every single day.
When do they get to fight against CSM? Of a particular Chaos God? And get taken alive?

How often do the chaos space marines fight grey knight? Would that be a good explanation for asking about no grey knights fighting chaos marines artwork?

 Lynata wrote:
Or Custodes? Maybe mercenaries? What about Eldar?

Broken links, none of those work. Maybe filtered at the university.

 Lynata wrote:
The thing is, I believe that stuff like a Sister standing vigil in a tomb is an interesting thing to depict.

Well, maybe. But that “Let us show boobs by using injury as an excuse” seems contrived. Now, a vigil where everything on the picture is to actually emphasize the vigil, and not provide gratuitous fan-service, why not?

For instance, in the pictures you linked here:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/602342.page#6978267
The first one is okay, the second one is really not as good at depicting the mortified body of a repentia as the one at the top of this post imho, and the last one feels like random fanservice with absolutely no intention to relate to the lore. Keeping just one shoulderpad of the power armor? Why? Just why?

 Lynata wrote:
Agree to disagree?

Well, as you want.

 flamingkillamajig wrote:
Yeesh lynata calm down. You always seem to let internet posts bother you. Just take a few deep breaths and use horse tranquilizers on yourself or something.

Telling people to calm down and then propose them to use horse tranquilizers seems like a good way to infuriate them. Let us keep the discussion nice and civil, please!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Psienesis wrote:
Actually, it kinda is. Not just the self-flagellation but also their entire disciplinary lifestyle in the Schola Progena on up to life in the Convent is very much an old-style Catholic school cranked up to 11.

This is one influence. This is definitely not in any way an accurate reproduction.