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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/03 02:33:35
Subject: Psychic Scream vs Chariots
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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A S7 shot can wound the rider but the owning player has the choice to apply it to the Chariot.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/03 03:14:03
Subject: Psychic Scream vs Chariots
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Regular Dakkanaut
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blaktoof wrote:psychic shriek inflicts wounds on a unit, its different wording than normal shooting which inflicts wounds on a model.
The problem is if you allocate the hit to the vehicle profile you still have x wounds to allocate to the unit, and I dont think you can allocate wounds to a vehicle before you allocate it to a profile that has a Wounds value.
If psychic shriek allocated wounds to a model, I would agree.
its not that its automatic wounding, its that the hit puts wounds onto the unit, not a singular model. One of the profiles of the unit can suffer wounds, the other cannot, you can put wounds onto the vehicle but the issue is the wound pool wont be emptied as the vehicle has no wounds to reduce, and another profile in the unit does have wounds to reduce.
if it was normal shooting, you could allocate it to the vehicle all day long as normal shooting specifies you allocate wounds to a model within the unit, psychic shriek does not state this.
"If it was normal shooting"; which it is not as you are following the advanced "shooting at chariots" section of rolling to hit and not the basic/general shooting rules.
The rule uses the word "unit" so that wounds carry across the entire unit and not just one model. Which is not important in my interpretation, but I think it's worth remembering the intention behind the wording of a rule.
As soon as you declare a shooting attack at a chariot, you follow the chariot rules for shooting at it. Thus psychic shriek is then allocated to the rider or vehicle. The chariot player then selects the vehicle profile and you inflict your wounds which cannot be allocated to that profile. If you wish to inflict wounds on the rider then you are relying on an interpretation that follows these steps:
1) Roll to hit
2) Allocate hit to rider or chariot
3) inflict wounds on the unit
4) Since the rules do not handle allocation of wounds on a chariot, allocate them to the rider regardless of previous steps
In my eyes, you have no method of handling the allocation of wounds to a chariot unit and given that they are found in the vehicle section, it makes perfect sense for why that's the case. The same restriction that prevents you form wounding a dreadnought is taking place. Just because there is a profile with wounds available does not give you permission to use it. So, without a method of carrying out what you're intending to do, I would go with the position that nothing happens unless the player for some reason allocates the hit to the rider allowing you to roll wounds against the rider profile(s) in the unit.
The crux of this problem can be answered with a simple ruling on an issue:
"If a model through some special rule or attack automatically allocates a wound to a chariot unit, does it wound the rider?"
My stance would be: You have no method of allocating such a wound, so no it does not.
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2014/07/03 03:24:31
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/03 03:52:26
Subject: Psychic Scream vs Chariots
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Virulent Space Marine dedicated to Nurgle
where i want to be
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I agree the rules just break at 2 points so people are just arguing HIWPI and why.
My question for the people opposed to it is, do you agree the barge gets the lords 3++ save then? If you can pull the wounds characteristic because it applies at the time then can you pull the save characteristic because it applies at the time.
I'd put it in line with haywire. Nothing stops you from hitting a unit no AV it just doesn't do anything.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/03 09:37:42
Subject: Psychic Scream vs Chariots
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Tough Tyrant Guard
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Characteristic modifications which affect the model change both profiles. Wounds is a characteristic, and applying them is a modification.
The rider loses wounds.
The chariot loses wounds (Which does nothing because it doesn't have that characteristic).
Nothing is allocated to either profile because there are no hits and were already told what to do with modifications which affect the model (Which is this..)
RAW wise even when a hit is allocated it affects both profiles, as wounds / AV are applied to models, allocating hits determines if you roll for Wounds or AV, which will only ever affect one.
Is there actually any problem with the above or are people just arguing for the sake of wanting invulnerable chariots? The chariot rules tell you how to handle this - and it actually works out very well. In all instances of auto hits the 2 profiles will have differing characteristics so it's never at the detriment to both and we have a mechanic for working out anything that isn't a hit and can be allocated.
Anywhere anyone suggests invulnerability you know you have a RAI issue.
The only question is related to rolling to hit with *those* powers and if it's related to the outcome.
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This message was edited 8 times. Last update was at 2014/07/03 09:46:40
It's my codex and I'll cry If I want to.
Tactical objectives are fantastic |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/03 10:16:04
Subject: Psychic Scream vs Chariots
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Repentia Mistress
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deviant cadaver wrote:I'd put it in line with haywire. Nothing stops you from hitting a unit no AV it just doesn't do anything.
Although the image of a unit of Swooping Hawks trying to plaster Haywire grenades on the Overlord is rather hilarious.
"Stick it up his nostril."
"No it doesn't hold well. Try sticking it under his shoulderpads."
"Anyone got Blu-Tack?"
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DS:70+S+G+M-B--IPw40k94-D+++A++/wWD380R+T(D)DM+
Avatar scene by artist Nicholas Kay. Give credit where it's due! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/03 10:28:40
Subject: Psychic Scream vs Chariots
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Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare
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Exactly Nem.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/03 11:03:50
Subject: Re:Psychic Scream vs Chariots
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Regular Dakkanaut
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"Modifiers
Certain pieces of wargear or special rules can modify a model’s characteristics positively or negatively by adding to it (+1, +2, etc.), subtracting from it (–1, –2, etc.), multiplying it (×2, ×3, etc.) or even setting its value (1, 8, etc.). Attacks and Wounds are the only characteristics that can be raised above 10. A model’s Initiative cannot be modified below 1, and no other characteristic can be modified below 0."
I would want to know the full argument for why a wound is a characteristic modifier. It seems like it's intended more for things like rad grenades.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/03 11:06:08
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/03 13:22:41
Subject: Psychic Scream vs Chariots
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Fixture of Dakka
Vanished Completely
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Wounds where always Characteristic modifiers, which is why the model is removed as a Casualty when it reaches 0.
Any-time a Wound is Allocated, for example, all we are doing is applying a -1 modifier to the Wound Characteristic.
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8th made it so I can no longer sway Tau onto the side of Chaos, but they will eventually turn aside from their idea of the Greater Good to embrace the Greatest of pleasures. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/03 17:11:01
Subject: Psychic Scream vs Chariots
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Virulent Space Marine dedicated to Nurgle
where i want to be
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I think it is a stretch to call wounds modifiers. When you take a wound you go from 3/3 to 2/3 the characteristic does not change. If a 2/3 model was some how brought back to full wounds it would not go to 2/2. The same way a 2 wound model can't have a wound added with out special permission.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/03 17:53:54
Subject: Psychic Scream vs Chariots
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Discriminating Deathmark Assassin
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Is this RAW or HIWPI?
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ADD causes my posts to ramble from time to time. Please bear with me.
You're not a Time Lord stick with linear time.
Specific Vs General |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/03 18:03:14
Subject: Psychic Scream vs Chariots
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Stats aren't x/x if your strength is modified from 4 to 6 we don't see any wording in the rules that the models strength is 4/6.
However we do see some wording for models which are allowed to regain wounds that they may or may not go over their starting wounds. Whether this implies we always keep track of a models wounds as current(starting) or current/starting or just as current is pretty ambiguous from a rules stand point.
regarding the psychic power entries, if we look at enfeeble "the model suffers -1 S and T" so suffers is negative, and S and T is a characteristic so it modifies the characteristic.
of we look at psychic shriek it says "a unit suffers wounds"
Wounds is also a characteristic, and suffers sounds just like enfeebles wording of suffers, so it does sound like its a characteristic modifier.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/03 18:11:31
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/03 22:01:42
Subject: Psychic Scream vs Chariots
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Judgemental Grey Knight Justicar
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If it was in melee attack you could put the shriek on the Rider. Witchfire are shooting attacks so the owner may choose to put it vs the Chariot and it does nothing.
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01001000 01101001 00100000 01110100 01101000 01100101 01110010 01100101 00101110 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/03 22:15:26
Subject: Psychic Scream vs Chariots
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Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare
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Mythra wrote:If it was in melee attack you could put the shriek on the Rider. Witchfire are shooting attacks so the owner may choose to put it vs the Chariot and it does nothing.
The Chariot rules give you permission to assign hits to either profile. How many hits does a psychic shriek generate? What impact do those hits have on the effect applied to the unit.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/03 23:07:52
Subject: Psychic Scream vs Chariots
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Discriminating Deathmark Assassin
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How are shooting attacks handled by the chariot? Why does Psychic Shriek create wounds against a unit? Which is more specific?
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ADD causes my posts to ramble from time to time. Please bear with me.
You're not a Time Lord stick with linear time.
Specific Vs General |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/03 23:48:57
Subject: Psychic Scream vs Chariots
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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shooting attacks - hits-wounds allocated to model.
psychic shriek-hits-wounds allocated to unit.
There is no to wound roll for psychic shriek so if the vehicle suffers a wound the rider suffers a wound as suffers =characteristic modifier, and if there is a modifier to a chariots characteristic it affects both the rider and chariot?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/04 00:18:44
Subject: Psychic Scream vs Chariots
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Discriminating Deathmark Assassin
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So basically you are advocating violating 2 sets of rules in an attempt to now create a work around to an imagined issue.... What stops you from using the two sets of rules that are already in place?
Edit: If it is a modifier you would need to show that it falls into that category. The game defines modifiers. What in the wound or modifier sections qualifies a wound as a modifier?
Edit 2: Enfeeble also specifically states it is a penalty.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/07/04 00:58:56
ADD causes my posts to ramble from time to time. Please bear with me.
You're not a Time Lord stick with linear time.
Specific Vs General |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/04 03:03:10
Subject: Psychic Scream vs Chariots
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Foolproof Falcon Pilot
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I agree with Jim's analysis of how things work out... As per RAW we have the following order of operations:
Psychic phase starts:
(1) Generate Warp Charge dice.
(2) Pick target as per Witchfires.
(3) Manifest the power.
(4) Roll to hit because it is a Witchfire.
(5) Owner of chariot allocates the hit to either the Rider or the Chariot.
(6a) If hit is allocated to Rider, resolve the hit against Rider and do 3d6-LD of Rider and Rider takes number of wounds if any.
(6b) If hit is allocated to Chariot, resolve hit against Chariot and either you (1) roll 3d6-LD of rider and wounds are resolved against Vehicle part of the Chariot profile which are ignored since vehicles don't take wounds OR (2) you don't bother rolling 3d6 since Chariot portion of model has no LD value that can be used.
This seems to follow the RAW as closely as possible. However, many rules are not as clear cut as we would like so this will need to be resolved between players in a pickup game one way or another (most likely will be a d6 roll) and in a tournament a TO will need to make a ruling one way or another.
I think a lot of people don't like the above resolution because it doesn't really seem right but ultimately, I think that is one of the RAW benefits of a Chariot model as the RAW.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/07/04 03:07:22
Jesus Christ changed my life, He can do the same for you!
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http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/576691.page#6486415 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/04 03:56:01
Subject: Psychic Scream vs Chariots
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Reverent Tech-Adept
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I don't know how this will end up working, but it is interesting.
However, it would be more interesting if people came up with arguments leading to conclusions and not the other way around. The biggest offender is that people are invoking the profile selection rule for chariot units. There is not resolution of a To Hit roll when using psychic shriek. There is a total disconnect between how this power is resolved and how a standard witchfire is resolved. No hit means no profile selection. Maybe there is a way around that, but I haven't seen anyone raise it yet.
So, when resolving psychic shriek, your step 5 does not exist. That is a star shaped peg and weonlyhave square shaped holes.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/04 03:57:42
Think first. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/04 04:29:34
Subject: Psychic Scream vs Chariots
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Foolproof Falcon Pilot
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Rapture wrote:
So, when resolving psychic shriek, your step 5 does not exist. That is a star shaped peg and weonlyhave square shaped holes.
That's not true, Psychic Shriek is a Witchfire and BRB states "witchfire powers are shooting attacks." Therefore, since it is a shooting attack, it is resolved just like any other thing that is "shot" at the Chariot and follows normal shooting rules unless noted otherwise. If the power doesn't hit, the attack misses and does not succeed even though it was manifested with enough dice. Therefore, since it hits just like any other shooting attack as mentioned above (and pointed out in BRB), the owner of the Chariot can allocate what part of the Chariot is affected by the hit, either the Rider or the Vehicle part.
It seems pretty strait forward to me.
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Jesus Christ changed my life, He can do the same for you!
My gaming blog regarding Eldar and soon to be CSM:Thousand Sons: http://yriel.blogspot.com/
My WIP Tyranid Fandex:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/576691.page#6486415 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/04 08:05:50
Subject: Psychic Scream vs Chariots
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Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare
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mortetvie wrote:I agree with Jim's analysis of how things work out... As per RAW we have the following order of operations:
Psychic phase starts:
(1) Generate Warp Charge dice.
(2) Pick target as per Witchfires.
(3) Manifest the power.
(4) Roll to hit because it is a Witchfire.
(5) Owner of chariot allocates the hit to either the Rider or the Chariot.
(6a) If hit is allocated to Rider, resolve the hit against Rider and do 3d6- LD of Rider and Rider takes number of wounds if any.
(6b) If hit is allocated to Chariot, resolve hit against Chariot and either you (1) roll 3d6- LD of rider and wounds are resolved against Vehicle part of the Chariot profile which are ignored since vehicles don't take wounds OR (2) you don't bother rolling 3d6 since Chariot portion of model has no LD value that can be used.
This seems to follow the RAW as closely as possible. However, many rules are not as clear cut as we would like so this will need to be resolved between players in a pickup game one way or another (most likely will be a d6 roll) and in a tournament a TO will need to make a ruling one way or another.
I think a lot of people don't like the above resolution because it doesn't really seem right but ultimately, I think that is one of the RAW benefits of a Chariot model as the RAW.
The problem with this is you can't roll to hit with Psychic Shriek and the effect on the unit has nothing to do with any hit.
So lets say I choose to roll 0 dice to hit so generate no hits (or 1 dice if you prefer and roll a miss) the Chariot still takes 3d6- LD wounds. Automatically Appended Next Post: Gravmyr wrote:How are shooting attacks handled by the chariot? Why does Psychic Shriek create wounds against a unit? Which is more specific?
1) you roll to hit then the chariot controlling player assigns those hits to chariot or rider and then you resolves those hits.
2) the psychic shriek effect is not related to a hit in any way shape or form. So you can resolve the hit against anything as there is no hit resolution.
Can you answer my questions?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/04 08:08:49
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/04 08:33:01
Subject: Psychic Scream vs Chariots
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Foolproof Falcon Pilot
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Fling, I think you are confused. You have to roll to hit with psychic shriek (you don't have the option of not rolling to hit) or nothin happens-it is a witchfire and therefore a shooting attack. You also only need to roll to hit once to determine if the target is hit at all before moving on to resolving the power's effects.
Once you roll to hit you then either resolve te hit/power against the rider or the chariot itself and the owning player of the chariot model gets to choose just like with any other shooting attack : /.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/04 08:35:16
Jesus Christ changed my life, He can do the same for you!
My gaming blog regarding Eldar and soon to be CSM:Thousand Sons: http://yriel.blogspot.com/
My WIP Tyranid Fandex:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/576691.page#6486415 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/04 08:36:35
Subject: Psychic Scream vs Chariots
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Twisting Tzeentch Horror
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Gravmyr wrote:So basically you are advocating violating 2 sets of rules in an attempt to now create a work around to an imagined issue.... What stops you from using the two sets of rules that are already in place?
Edit: If it is a modifier you would need to show that it falls into that category. The game defines modifiers. What in the wound or modifier sections qualifies a wound as a modifier?
Edit 2: Enfeeble also specifically states it is a penalty.
The game defines modifiers as something modifying the characteristic profile positively or negatively. If it's not a modification, then why do anything with the profile at all? The model loses a wound, OK, since that's not a characteristic modifier ill just do nothing with the profile and my hive tyrant remains on 4 wounds in it's profile.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/04 08:37:36
DS:80S++G++MB+I+Pw40k92/f#+D+A++/areWD156R++T(R)DM+ |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/04 08:39:23
Subject: Psychic Scream vs Chariots
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Captain of the Forlorn Hope
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mortetvie wrote:Fling, I think you are confused. You have to roll to hit with psychic shriek (you don't have the option of not rolling to hit) or nothin happens-it is a witchfire and therefore a shooting attack.
Nothing in Psychic Shriek says that if you miss you do not resolve the effects of Psychic Shriek.
You also only need to roll to hit once to determine if the target is hit at all before moving on to resolving the power's effects.
Why once? Where are you getting one roll to hit from? I cant find it in the rules.
Once you roll to hit you then either resolve te hit/power against the rider or the chariot itself and the owning player of the chariot model gets to choose just like with any other shooting attack : /.
Psychic Shriek does not generate hits.
But I am not going to get into that again.
Read this thread for the full explanation about Psychic Shriek and why rolling to hit does not matter.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/599053.page
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/04 09:00:48
Subject: Psychic Scream vs Chariots
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Foolproof Falcon Pilot
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Dude, the BRB clearly states that for all witchfires that are not blasts or templates you need to make a to-hit roll... So if you can't find the rule you are not looking hard enough. The answer is not in the psychic shriek entry but the psychic powers section which you appear to be missing or disregarding all together. General principle we are ALL familiar with in 40k is that if a shooting attack misses, it does no damage...
In the case of psychic shriek, a single to-hit roll is made because it is a shooting attack (as all witchfires are) and if it misses, the power fails to do any damage because all shooting attacks that miss fail by virtue if their very nature. If the to hit roll is successful, you resolve the power by rolling 3d6 and subtract model's LD from the value to determine number of wounds caused. If the hit was allocated to the chariot, no wounds are dealt because the chariot doesn't have a wounds characteristic itself.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/04 09:03:43
Jesus Christ changed my life, He can do the same for you!
My gaming blog regarding Eldar and soon to be CSM:Thousand Sons: http://yriel.blogspot.com/
My WIP Tyranid Fandex:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/576691.page#6486415 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/04 09:19:31
Subject: Psychic Scream vs Chariots
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Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare
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Dude, the BRB clearly states that for all witchfires that are not blasts or templates you need to make a to-hit roll... So if you can't find the rule you are not looking hard enough. The answer is not in the psychic shriek entry but the psychic powers section which you appear to be missing or disregarding all together.
So how many dice do I roll to hit? What weapon profile are you using to determine that number?
General principle we are ALL familiar with in 40k is that if a shooting attack misses, it does no damage...
This is not actually a rule though. Missed shooting attacks don't roll to wound or armour pen. The Psychic Shriek roll is neither of those nor is it done in place of one of those.
In the case of psychic shriek, a single to-hit roll is made because it is a shooting attack (as all witchfires are) and if it misses, the power fails to do any damage because all shooting attacks that miss fail by virtue if their very nature. If the to hit roll is successful, you resolve the power by rolling 3d6 and subtract model's LD from the value to determine number of wounds caused. If the hit was allocated to the chariot, no wounds are dealt because the chariot doesn't have a wounds characteristic itself.
Please read the thread DeathReaper posted because this is not at all how Psychic Shriek works.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/04 09:27:10
Subject: Psychic Scream vs Chariots
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Foolproof Falcon Pilot
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Um, you make a single to hit roll because it is a single attack. If it hits, it causes 3d6-ld wounds on the unit.
So there is no point in continuing in this because you are blatantly disregarding the clearly written rules in the BRB, as is everyone who would deny that a single to-hit roll is made for psychic shriek and if the roll misses the power misses and fails to do any damage.
Just like how if a bolt pistol misses no damage roll is made, if psychic shriek misses, no 3d6-ld roll is made to determine the number of wounds...
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Jesus Christ changed my life, He can do the same for you!
My gaming blog regarding Eldar and soon to be CSM:Thousand Sons: http://yriel.blogspot.com/
My WIP Tyranid Fandex:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/576691.page#6486415 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/04 09:38:08
Subject: Psychic Scream vs Chariots
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Confessor Of Sins
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They keep claiming that lack of rules stating how many dice we need to roll to hit makes it alright to just skip that part of the rules (that say you must roll to hit) and continue resolving the power.
They haven't provided any rules to back that up either.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/04 10:11:43
Subject: Psychic Scream vs Chariots
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Powerful Phoenix Lord
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mortetvie wrote:Um, you make a single to hit roll because it is a single attack. If it hits, it causes 3d6- ld wounds on the unit.
So there is no point in continuing in this because you are blatantly disregarding the clearly written rules in the BRB, as is everyone who would deny that a single to-hit roll is made for psychic shriek and if the roll misses the power misses and fails to do any damage.
Just like how if a bolt pistol misses no damage roll is made, if psychic shriek misses, no 3d6- ld roll is made to determine the number of wounds...
So a single attack only rolls one To Hit? Does that mean a Punisher Gatling Cannon (Heavy 20) only rolls one To Hit roll as it is only a single shooting attack?
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Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/04 10:22:55
Subject: Psychic Scream vs Chariots
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Foolproof Falcon Pilot
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No because its profile denotes that it does 20 attacks...it has 20 shots. Psychic shriek does one attack that when hit resolves as 3d6-ld wounds.
Also, just because you may feign ignorance as to how many dice to roll to hit, it does not allow you to bypass the very clear rule that you must make a to-hit roll and as any shooting attack that misses, if the to hit roll misses, the entire attack fails to do anything.
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Jesus Christ changed my life, He can do the same for you!
My gaming blog regarding Eldar and soon to be CSM:Thousand Sons: http://yriel.blogspot.com/
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http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/576691.page#6486415 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/04 10:23:26
Subject: Psychic Scream vs Chariots
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Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare
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Um, you make a single to hit roll because it is a single attack. If it hits, it causes 3d6-ld wounds on the unit.
So a Punisher Cannon rolls a single dice to hit? It is also single shooting attack.
So there is no point in continuing in this because you are blatantly disregarding the clearly written rules in the BRB, as is everyone who would deny that a single to-hit roll is made for psychic shriek and if the roll misses the power misses and fails to do any damage.
So is Psychic shriek Assault 1, Heavy 1, Ordnance 1, Primary Weapon 1 or pistol? Which of those is true if I'm making 1 roll to hit and where is that stated?
The connection between a hit and damage is one you've made up unless you'd like to state the "clearly written rules in the BRB" that state this. Page and paragraph please.
Just like how if a bolt pistol misses no damage roll is made, if psychic shriek misses, no 3d6-ld roll is made to determine the number of wounds...
If a bolt pistol doesn't hit you don't roll to wound or armour pen. Psychic Shriek makes neither roll if it hits or misses. Also a bolt pistol has a weapon profile we can use to determine how many dice to roll to hit and what S to use for rolls to wound and armour pen etc none of that is present in Psychic Shriek.
They keep claiming that lack of rules stating how many dice we need to roll to hit makes it alright to just skip that part of the rules (that say you must roll to hit) and continue resolving the power.
So lets say you roll to hit with your made up number of 1 dice. After rolling to hit I must roll to wound if I hit right? That's the rules. So what to I need to roll to wound what strength do I use? So given that we don't have enough information to do that process do I just make up the Strength to be 10 and roll to wound armour pen with that? Or do I skip the to wound roll as I do not have all the permissions required to complete it?
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