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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/08 21:51:56
Subject: Psychic Scream vs Chariots
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The Hive Mind
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Naw wrote:Why do I need to roll for hit with Smite? How do you know how to resolve PS with the roll having no effect, but then claim it works for Smite?
Because Smite has a profile, which includes a Type, which includes the number of dice to roll.
Which you'd know if you'd follow the arguments throughout the thread instead of trying to nit pick.
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My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/08 21:53:18
Subject: Re:Psychic Scream vs Chariots
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Discriminating Deathmark Assassin
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OK fair. I think we can all agree though at this point we are well beyond RAW. How would you deal with the need to roll to hit but not having the number of shots spelled out?
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ADD causes my posts to ramble from time to time. Please bear with me.
You're not a Time Lord stick with linear time.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/08 21:57:55
Subject: Re:Psychic Scream vs Chariots
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Gravmyr wrote:OK fair. I think we can all agree though at this point we are well beyond RAW. How would you deal with the need to roll to hit but not having the number of shots spelled out?
I'd follow the rule from shooting attacks and roll 1 die. We aren't told otherwise.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/08 22:08:03
Subject: Psychic Scream vs Chariots
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Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare
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1. Why don't you roll to penetrate. What rule is allowing you to skip that step? Nothing in PS tells you to skip or replace that step. So again you see something unresolvable and are skipping the step. Why treat it differently for the to hit roll?
2. So when there is no value you are assuming 0 is the value. Why treat the PS to hit roll differently? Why not assume it does 0 shots as you are not told it does any?
3. Again you see no value so assume 0 rather than the 1 assumed for to hit? Why are you treating them inconsistently? Also you are aware that by page 9 your interpretation means the Chariot is removed as a casualty right?
Much like Mortetvie you just destroyed your own stance with those replies.
Once again you then make claims about my argument you know to be false.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/08 22:17:46
Subject: Psychic Scream vs Chariots
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Discriminating Deathmark Assassin
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Flingitnow: How are you getting the wounds from the wound pool onto the model?
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ADD causes my posts to ramble from time to time. Please bear with me.
You're not a Time Lord stick with linear time.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/08 22:22:30
Subject: Psychic Scream vs Chariots
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Confessor Of Sins
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DeathReaper wrote:#2 is not true at all. Unless you are advocating that
Haemorrhage
Purge Soul
Spontaneous Combustion
Crush
all do not work as written as they do not have a profile so we dont know how many dice to roll to hit, yet that all require a roll to hit through the Witchfire rules...
I agree with Shandara et Al. you simply roll 1 dice To Hit, (as that is a To Hit roll - required) comparing your Balistic Skill. Fail that, and the effect of the spell miss.
Haemorrhage
Purge Soul
Spontaneous Combustion
Crush
Will not affect the Tree next to your target
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DA:80-S+G+M+B++I-Pw40k01++D+++A+++WD100R++T(T)DM+
Roronoa Zoro wrote:When the world shoves you around, you just gotta stand up and shove back. It's not like somebody's gonna save you if you start babbling excuses. - Bring on the hardship. It's preferred in a path of carnage. Manchu wrote:
It's like you take a Space Marine and say "what could make him cooler?" Instead of adding more super-genetic-psycho-organic modification, you take it all away. You have a regular human left in power armor and all the armies of hell at the gates. And she doesn't even flinch. Pure. Badass. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/08 22:33:55
Subject: Psychic Scream vs Chariots
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Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare
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Gravmyr wrote:Flingitnow: How are you getting the wounds from the wound pool onto the model?
Cool I take a wound and apply it to the nearest model in the target unit. In this case the Chariot which has a wounds Characteristic so then I apply any saves that are available assuming they fail I reduce that by 1 see if that kills the model or not then go back to the wound pool. Wound pool rules are spelt out on pages 35-36 of the rulebook.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/08 22:35:36
Subject: Psychic Scream vs Chariots
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Discriminating Deathmark Assassin
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Why are you not using the rules that are more specific for chariots?
Edit: Also those are the rules for infantry if I am correct. How are you using them to inflict wounds on a vehicle?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/08 22:45:58
ADD causes my posts to ramble from time to time. Please bear with me.
You're not a Time Lord stick with linear time.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/08 22:40:30
Subject: Re:Psychic Scream vs Chariots
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Confessor Of Sins
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rigeld2 wrote:
Quote the rule - my electronic page numbers don't help but I can't imagine what rule you're talking about.
And to HappyJew:
Apologies that pages no longer work, but P27:
Similarly, a witchfire power must roll To Hit, unless (...)Blast(...)Template
If it is not a Blast or a Template, it MUST roll To Hit.
p32: Paraphrased to "no Automatic Hit when rolling To Hit".
ALL witchfires can fail to hit.
p27 then moves on to say how Beam and Nova types "all units under the line are hit" and "hits all enemy units" which exempts them from this.
rigeld2 wrote:However doing so would assume Molten Beam, and other Beams, would also "not roll To Hit". But they clearly have a "shooting profile".
Correct. And?
If you go by the assumption that Beams must roll to hit, then you're saying that you roll to hit the first unit, and then hit every unit under the line. Which makes no sense.
No i was under the impression that you roll To Hit before "tracing the line". Corrected by further reading above.
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DA:80-S+G+M+B++I-Pw40k01++D+++A+++WD100R++T(T)DM+
Roronoa Zoro wrote:When the world shoves you around, you just gotta stand up and shove back. It's not like somebody's gonna save you if you start babbling excuses. - Bring on the hardship. It's preferred in a path of carnage. Manchu wrote:
It's like you take a Space Marine and say "what could make him cooler?" Instead of adding more super-genetic-psycho-organic modification, you take it all away. You have a regular human left in power armor and all the armies of hell at the gates. And she doesn't even flinch. Pure. Badass. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/08 22:51:40
Subject: Psychic Scream vs Chariots
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Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare
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Gravmyr wrote:Why are you not using the rules that are more specific for chariots?
Edit: Also those are the rules for infantry if I am correct. How are you using them to inflict wounds on a vehicle?
What rules for Chariots? There are no rules for wound pools specific to chariots. And those are the wound pool rules for all models. Generally Vehicles intercept the shooting rules before you get to a wound pool, at the roll to wound stage a stage that does not occur for PS.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/08 22:52:31
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/08 22:52:17
Subject: Re:Psychic Scream vs Chariots
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Confessor Of Sins
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The 6th Edition Rulebook was quite clear with the wording:
Witchfire powers are often reffered to as psychic shooting attacks. Manifesting witchfire [color=red]counts as firing an Assault weapon (unless otherwise noted). A witchfire power must roll To Hit,...[/color]
Which has now become:
Indeed, they are often referred to as psychic shooting attacks, and many have profiles similar to ranged weapons. (...LoS...) . Similarly, a witchfire power must roll To Hit,...
Just as Naw pointed out, and the intent is clear in the lines above:
the RaW "many have profiles" just points out that this is the method to resolve it, Assault 1 or not.
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DA:80-S+G+M+B++I-Pw40k01++D+++A+++WD100R++T(T)DM+
Roronoa Zoro wrote:When the world shoves you around, you just gotta stand up and shove back. It's not like somebody's gonna save you if you start babbling excuses. - Bring on the hardship. It's preferred in a path of carnage. Manchu wrote:
It's like you take a Space Marine and say "what could make him cooler?" Instead of adding more super-genetic-psycho-organic modification, you take it all away. You have a regular human left in power armor and all the armies of hell at the gates. And she doesn't even flinch. Pure. Badass. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/08 22:55:18
Subject: Psychic Scream vs Chariots
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Discriminating Deathmark Assassin
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The rules for chariots state there is a profile choice to be made. Since that was never made how are you as the firer choosing to put the wound on the rider's profile?
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ADD causes my posts to ramble from time to time. Please bear with me.
You're not a Time Lord stick with linear time.
Specific Vs General |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/08 23:04:55
Subject: Psychic Scream vs Chariots
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Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare
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Where does it say that. Nothing about that in the Chariot rules in my book.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/08 23:07:05
Subject: Psychic Scream vs Chariots
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Fixture of Dakka
Vanished Completely
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There is a Rule stating that any Characteristic Modifiers are to both Profiles. Resolving Wounds requires us to reduce the Wound Characteristic, after seeing if the Model Saves against the Wound, which is clearly a Modifier.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/07/08 23:11:18
8th made it so I can no longer sway Tau onto the side of Chaos, but they will eventually turn aside from their idea of the Greater Good to embrace the Greatest of pleasures. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/08 23:09:30
Subject: Psychic Scream vs Chariots
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Discriminating Deathmark Assassin
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The section you skipped via not doing a hit roll was where they are located. As the owner of the chariot gets to choose where the shooting attack it allocated to.
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ADD causes my posts to ramble from time to time. Please bear with me.
You're not a Time Lord stick with linear time.
Specific Vs General |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/08 23:12:49
Subject: Psychic Scream vs Chariots
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Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare
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Gravmyr wrote:The section you skipped via not doing a hit roll was where they are located. As the owner of the chariot gets to choose where the shooting attack it allocated to.
So back to deliberately posting falsehoods. As has been explained to you those rules ONLY allow you to allocate hits from a shooting attack and then explains how you resolve those HITS. The 3d6- ld wounds have nothing to do with hits so why on earth would that rule be relevant?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/08 23:13:54
Subject: Psychic Scream vs Chariots
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Discriminating Deathmark Assassin
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The fact that there is two profiles and as the owner get to choose where the attacks are allocated to.
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ADD causes my posts to ramble from time to time. Please bear with me.
You're not a Time Lord stick with linear time.
Specific Vs General |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/08 23:21:28
Subject: Psychic Scream vs Chariots
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Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare
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Gravmyr wrote:The fact that there is two profiles and as the owner get to choose where the attacks are allocated to.
No rules state this. Please refrain from using made up rules in your argument it doesn't help the discussion.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/08 23:45:26
Subject: Psychic Scream vs Chariots
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Discriminating Deathmark Assassin
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Holy robo zombies! I could have sworn that the hit section stated that the results were applied to the profile you chose... I can't argue with the wound application then. I have no idea where I got that from.
I stand by my belief that the RAI are to have a To Hit roll made with the misses to not be processed but that is a different discussion.
I have a few issues with this power otherwise but this is not the thread for that either.
I bow out sir.
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ADD causes my posts to ramble from time to time. Please bear with me.
You're not a Time Lord stick with linear time.
Specific Vs General |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/08 23:48:30
Subject: Psychic Scream vs Chariots
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Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare
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Very gracious
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/09 03:17:40
Subject: Psychic Scream vs Chariots
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Fixture of Dakka
Chicago, Illinois
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Has anyone brought up the whole "Multiple Characteristics" issue? I can't seem to find it. If your wondering, I'm referring to the beginning of the rulebook where it specifically talks about models having multiple characteristics and your suppose to use the higher value.
I thought this already came up in a previous thread.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/09 03:18:30
If I lose it is because I had bad luck, if you win it is because you cheated. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/09 04:11:08
Subject: Psychic Scream vs Chariots
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The Hive Mind
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Hollismason wrote:Has anyone brought up the whole "Multiple Characteristics" issue? I can't seem to find it. If your wondering, I'm referring to the beginning of the rulebook where it specifically talks about models having multiple characteristics and your suppose to use the higher value.
I thought this already came up in a previous thread.
How does this apply here? Were you deliberately vague in your question or are we supposed to assume most beneficial, least harm?
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My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/11 07:41:14
Subject: Psychic Scream vs Chariots
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Sinewy Scourge
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Here's another one for you. Vects s10 blast rolls against leadership to wound.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/11 07:56:42
Subject: Psychic Scream vs Chariots
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Never Forget Isstvan!
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shingen thats not a problem.
We are given a clear str value and vehicles have no ldr.
The defending player allocates to either his warlord which will be wounded on a 4+ because he has ldr 10, or will be up againgst armor 13 and so will need a 3 to glance and a 4+ to pen.
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JOIN MY CRUSADE and gain 4000 RT points!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/11 08:03:29
Subject: Psychic Scream vs Chariots
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Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare
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As Eihnlazer states you have a hit therefore the Chariot rules kick in and the Chariot player gets to assign to rider of vehicle. You then resolve as normal vs whichever target is selected.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/11 12:15:43
Subject: Psychic Scream vs Chariots
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Devastating Dark Reaper
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FlingitNow wrote:As Eihnlazer states you have a hit therefore the Chariot rules kick in and the Chariot player gets to assign to rider of vehicle. You then resolve as normal vs whichever target is selected.
Exept there are no hits, only wounds. Can you allocate wounds to a vehicle? No? Then they go on the rider.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/11 15:29:12
Subject: Psychic Scream vs Chariots
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Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare
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PapaSoul wrote: FlingitNow wrote:As Eihnlazer states you have a hit therefore the Chariot rules kick in and the Chariot player gets to assign to rider of vehicle. You then resolve as normal vs whichever target is selected.
Exept there are no hits, only wounds. Can you allocate wounds to a vehicle? No? Then they go on the rider.
It is a blast weapon it generates hits in the usual way. You only use the Ld instead of rolling to wound if the hit is allocated to the chariot there is no roll to wound.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/12 16:51:32
Subject: Re:Psychic Scream vs Chariots
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Beast of Nurgle
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The way we handle it here is that we treat Witchfires that don't have a profile as an assault 1 weapon (I know making up rules blah blah, all that). Therefore if it hits the chariot the chariot player can choose where to put the "hit". I know prehaps we're not playing RAW but, it's way more preferable than having an 11 page Talmudic discussion about the rules interpretations K.I.S.S.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/12 17:16:12
Subject: Psychic Scream vs Chariots
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Ultramarine Chaplain with Hate to Spare
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Or you could just play by the rules? No rolls to hit and the unit is effected regardless of hits. If they assign the hit to the chariot do you resolve against the unit as per the Psychic Shriek rules or do you make up further rules and break the PS rules? If the roll to hit misses do you still resolve against the unit as per the Psychic Shriek rules or do you make up further rules and break the PS rules?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/07/12 18:01:25
Subject: Re:Psychic Scream vs Chariots
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Beast of Nurgle
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Wow, you are being pretty aggro for no real good reason. That being said, if psychic shriek is assigned to the chariot, the chariot itself has no LD so it does nothing like it would to any other vehicle. If the shot misses then the power does nothing, regardless of target. So in essence most maledictions and effects like psychic shriek have limited (if any) effect on chariots. It works with no disagreement in my gaming group of 12ish (which is large or small depending on your perspective) people.
I'm not saying it's following the rules. But we're pretty keen on knowing when the rules are inadequate to cover the situation and have no problems filling in or modifying the rules to make the game the most enjoyable for all involved. We look at it like a good ol' fashioned PnP RPG, instead of a legal document. Where occasionally rules need to be adjusted to suit the group. This has led to minimal but positive changes to the rules for us. While I perfectly understand that we no longer fully inhabit the land of RAW(all the better for it), the 41st millennium somehow manages to be a fun place to be.
So slow your roll, it's okay that other people play differently than you.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/07/12 18:06:05
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