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 Ashiraya wrote:

 Lord Tarkin wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
The Marine in the second picture is significantly larger than the one in the first.

I believe Marines are usually 7-8 feet tall. They don't have to be 9 feet tall to look intimidating. The first picture is a good example of how big and buff they are, completely musclebound and physically unmatched by any human.

I never said that nine feet is required to look intimidating.

I simply consider it the most aesthetically appropriate size.

Even still, the picture you made puts "Average height" guardsmen coming up to the marine's waist... by the ~9' scale that makes normal humans averaging 4.5' tall? the marines would have to be ~12' to match the real human height average male of 5'9"ish... Marines tower over regular folk, but they certainly arent double the height

Does anyone think that one day they will revist the scale and get it right? Would be a great way for GW to grab some more money.

Cambonimachine wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Lord Tarkin wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
The Marine in the second picture is significantly larger than the one in the first.

I believe Marines are usually 7-8 feet tall. They don't have to be 9 feet tall to look intimidating. The first picture is a good example of how big and buff they are, completely musclebound and physically unmatched by any human.

I never said that nine feet is required to look intimidating.

I simply consider it the most aesthetically appropriate size.

Even still, the picture you made puts "Average height" guardsmen coming up to the marine's waist... by the ~9' scale that makes normal humans averaging 4.5' tall? the marines would have to be ~12' to match the real human height average male of 5'9"ish... Marines tower over regular folk, but they certainly arent double the height

The picture is just a rough representation of the general idea.

I imagine them to be about half again as tall. Nine feet, that is.

Crimson did a few good scale images, I think he has one of a 10' Marine. So 9' is a foot shorter than that, comparable given that there is a measurement scale on the picture.

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PastelAvenger wrote:
Does anyone think that one day they will revist the scale and get it right? Would be a great way for GW to grab some more money.

Strongly doubt it, especially since there is no 'right scale.'


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, for scale lols: Rogal Dorn.



Pauldrons m8

In Ashiraya's picture the Marine is about ten feet, Eldar are eight and SoB six and half. Why everyone is a giant, and the Wraithlord is as big as an Imperial Knight, I do not understand.

Crimson wrote:In Ashiraya's picture the Marine is about ten feet, Eldar are eight and SoB six and half. Why everyone is a giant, and the Wraithlord is as big as an Imperial Knight, I do not understand.

Ashiraya wrote:
The picture is just a rough representation of the general idea.

I did not measure when I made the picture, I merely estimated. But you clearly do not mind such comparatively minor discrepiances given your quick way to handwave the 120mm LR cannon?

PastelAvenger wrote:
Does anyone think that one day they will revist the scale and get it right? Would be a great way for GW to grab some more money.

No, because even if it was right, people would refuse to believe it as it wouldn't match their headcanon.

 Crimson wrote:

PastelAvenger wrote:
Does anyone think that one day they will revist the scale and get it right? Would be a great way for GW to grab some more money.

No, because even if it was right, people would refuse to believe it as it wouldn't match their headcanon.

Agreed. Imagine how angry you would be.


No but seriously, there is no 'right' size, and no amount of repeating your opinion will make it objective.

There is no 'right size' when it comes to 40K canon, which is vast and contradictory, this is true. There however is pretty consistent scale which FW and the design studio uses. Now, I perfectly well understand that some people would prefer them to adhere to sizes from their favourite BL novel, it is a perfectly valid opinion. However, to say that vehicle scale is 'wrong' is just a lie or a misconception. The studio has said that Leman Russ is about seven metres long 'in real life', and the model is perfectly scaled to match that, same with the other vehicles. That some fan (or even a BL author) disagrees with their fluff is not really the design studio's problem, nor does it make the models wrongly scaled.

 Crimson wrote:
There is no 'right size' when it comes to 40K canon, which is vast and contradictory, this is true. There however is pretty consistent scale which FW and the design studio uses. Now, I perfectly well understand that some people would prefer them to adhere to sizes from their favourite BL novel, it is a perfectly valid opinion. However, to say that vehicle scale is 'wrong' is just a lie or a misconception. The studio has said that Leman Russ is about seven metres long 'in real life', and the model is perfectly scaled to match that, same with the other vehicles. That some fan (or even a BL author) disagrees with their fluff is not really the design studio's problem, nor does it make the models wrongly scaled.

The problem remains if there is any BL material at all disagreeing with it, since it equals the studio in canonicity.

Do you have any source on this btw?

 Crimson wrote:
The studio has said that Leman Russ is about seven metres long 'in real life', and the model is perfectly scaled to match that, same with the other vehicles. That some fan (or even a BL author) disagrees with their fluff is not really the design studio's problem, nor does it make the models wrongly scaled.

 Ashiraya wrote:

The problem remains if there is any BL material at all disagreeing with it, since it equals the studio in canonicity.

Yes it does, but BL cannot be consistent even within one book. It is absurd to expect GW to overhaul their entire model range based on what some BL author might randomly write on on that day. Now it would be nice if GW had stricter canon overseeing policy that forced consistency, but that obviously is not the case.

 Crimson wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:

The problem remains if there is any BL material at all disagreeing with it, since it equals the studio in canonicity.

Yes it does, but BL cannot be consistent even within one book. It is absurd to expect GW to overhaul their entire model range based on what some BL author might randomly write on on that day. Now it would be nice if GW had stricter canon overseeing policy that forced consistency, but that obviously is not the case.

Or if they just scrapped the rumour thing and said 'X is true, the rest is rumours and myths.'

I do not expect them to do such, but by stating that everything is canon they have backed themselves into a corner.

I do not expect them to change the scale at all.

 Ashiraya wrote:

Do you have any source on this btw?

On what, Leman Russ' size? I posted the chart (from some WD, I think) It is also in numerous FW books, as is the size of pretty much every vehicle in 40K.

Which WD?

 Ashiraya wrote:
Which WD?

I don't have the foggiest. FW books have similar charts with the same numbers.

Space Marine heads are the same size as Space Marines helmets. That's how bad the scales are.

 Crimson wrote:
Yep, I'm sure the numbers do not match 100%. However, they seem to be mostly accurate if we assume that the tanks are in same scale as the the infantry. If 30mm Cadian is 175cm tall in 'reality' then 12cm tank model is seven metres long.

Mostly accurate ?

Rather inaccurate and inconsistent.

Example:

Leman Russ ImpA 1

Length = 708 cm > Model = 117 mm > 6,05 cm / 1 mm
Width = 486 cm > Model = 80 mm > 6,075 cm / 1 mm
Height = 442 cm > Model = 68 mm > 6,5 cm / 1 mm
Ground clearance = 45 cm > Model = 12 mm > 3,75 cm / 1 mm
( without turret ) = 340 cm > Model 55 mm > 6,18 cm / 1 mm

1mm = 3,75-6,5 cm ? Really ?

Chimera ImpA 1

Length = 690 cm > Model = 117 mm > 5,89 cm / 1 mm
width = 570 cm > Model = 92 mm > 6,19 cm / 1 mm
Height = 372 cm > Model = 67 mm > 5,55 cm / 1 mm
Ground clearance = 45 cm > Model = 11 mm > 4,09 cm / 1 mm

1mm = 4,09-6,19cm ? Length: Russ is 708cm, Chimera is 690cm, both Models are 117 mm. OK ?

Shadowsword ImpA 1

Length = 1350 cm > Model = 220 mm > 6,13 cm / 1 mm
Width = 840 cm > Model = 140 mm > 6,0 cm / 1 mm
Heigth = 585 cm > Model = 85 mm > 6,88 cm / 1 mm
Ground clearance = 120 cm > Model = 16 mm > 7,5 cm / 1 mm

again, 1mm = 6,0-7,5 cm ?

If they corrected the ground clearance, maybe they could get away with something between 6.0cm and 6.1cm as their "system".

Land Raider IndAst. 3

Length = 1036 cm > Model = 168 mm > 6,16 cm / 1 mm
Width = 610 cm > Model = 100 mm > 6,1 cm / 1 mm
Heigth = 412 cm > Model = 68 mm > 6,05 cm / 1 mm
Ground clearance = 30 cm > Model = 6 mm > 5,0 cm / 1 mm

as close as it gets to fluff and model working as intended..

Predator IndAst 3

Length = 660 cm > Model = 120 mm > 5,5 cm / 1 mm
Width = 590 cm > Model = 78 mm > 7,5 cm / 1 mm
Heigth = 440 cm > Model = 65 mm > 6,76 cm / 1 mm
Ground clearance = 44 cm > Model = 13 mm > 3,38 cm / 1 mm

1 mm = 3,38-7,5 cm ? doesn't compute..

Somebody did an ok job with the Land Raider. The other basic hulls of the IoM are messed up. Thus an accurate representation of their size in the 40k-verse isn't possible.


The Infantry isn't better off. Plastic Space marines and many other are at 30 mm. If vehicles run with 1 mm = 6 cm, a 30 mm figure is 180 cm.
Got a IG 'officer of the fleet' ( advisor ) who is 33 mm. Tall one....
I don't believe everyone in the 40k - verse grows up to 180 and then stops there.

This may be of some interest for those who like their Marines on the tall side. This model scales up to roughly nine feet tall; I went overboard on this one and that's how he ended up so crazy big but it gives an impression of what nine feet would actually look like in miniature terms.

I can't see very well, the picture is tiny.

The scale indeed seems to be roughly 1mm=6cm. Seems consistent enough besides the ground clearances, I don't know what's the issue with the those, they're all totally off.

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:

The problem remains if there is any BL material at all disagreeing with it, since it equals the studio in canonicity.

Yes it does, but BL cannot be consistent even within one book. It is absurd to expect GW to overhaul their entire model range based on what some BL author might randomly write on on that day. Now it would be nice if GW had stricter canon overseeing policy that forced consistency, but that obviously is not the case.

Or if they just scrapped the rumour thing and said 'X is true, the rest is rumours and myths.'

I do not expect them to do such, but by stating that everything is canon they have backed themselves into a corner.

I do not expect them to change the scale at all.

The "everything is canon" is also meaning "everything is rumors and myths", because that is how everything in 40K is written. While "Canon" normally means "truth", that is a mistake in 40K because, again, *nothing* is true!

 Psienesis wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:

The problem remains if there is any BL material at all disagreeing with it, since it equals the studio in canonicity.

Yes it does, but BL cannot be consistent even within one book. It is absurd to expect GW to overhaul their entire model range based on what some BL author might randomly write on on that day. Now it would be nice if GW had stricter canon overseeing policy that forced consistency, but that obviously is not the case.

Or if they just scrapped the rumour thing and said 'X is true, the rest is rumours and myths.'

I do not expect them to do such, but by stating that everything is canon they have backed themselves into a corner.

I do not expect them to change the scale at all.

The "everything is canon" is also meaning "everything is rumors and myths", because that is how everything in 40K is written. While "Canon" normally means "truth", that is a mistake in 40K because, again, *nothing* is true!

So all those 7 feet Marine sources are just rumours and the 9 feet sources are right?

And the other way around?

At the same time?

Seems logical.

GW pls


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 Crimson wrote:
The scale indeed seems to be roughly 1mm=6cm. Seems consistent enough besides the ground clearances, I don't know what's the issue with the those, they're all totally off.

Even discounting ground clearances, they vary between ~5,5 and ~7.5. You have said before that discrepancies of this percentage are colossal.

So all those 7 feet Marine sources are just rumours and the 9 feet sources are right?

And the other way around?

At the same time?

Seems logical.

Yes. Also, no.

Biggest discrepancies seem to be in heights of vehicles with turrets and in widths of vehicles with sponsons. There have been many variant turrets and sponsons and it is not always clear to which part of these things you're supposed to measure, so this may affect the results.

But any case, that's not really the point. The models are obviously in scale such way that you could measure individual parts or proportions of them and get reliable results. That's what 'heroic scale does, and I think it affects the vehicles too, although in lesser extent. However, there is a rough scale, which the vehicles seem to adhere to, which goes against the many people's idea that the vehicle models are consistently off scale and too small.

The infantry models are out of scale to each other.
The vehicles are out of scale to the infantry and other vehicles.

A SM Rhino, at the same scale as the infantry should have the footprint of the Land Raider. The Land Raider the footprint of the baneblade.

The leman russ is about 60% the size it should be (at minimum).

 chromedog wrote:

The leman russ is about 60% the size it should be (at minimum).

Okay, let's unpack this; many people seem to think this or something similar. Why you think this is the case? How large you think a 'real life' Leman Russ would be?

As a psychological question, if people agree (in general) that Marines should be larger in proportion to Imperial Guard, why then do so many people think that the Marine models should be bigger?

I mean, why not say that the Guardsmen should be smaller?

I mean, I can see (and agree with) the first, but how does the second follow? Why are guardsmen accepted as 'correctly scaled', instead of Marines (especially given GW's overabundance of marines).

Is it because it's much easier to 'enlarge' a marine than it is to reduce a guardsmen? I mean, that's obviously true, but then it just makes the size of the SM vehicles that much more problematic. If people instead chose to use smaller models (from another company) for IG, then Marines would look more correctly scaled, and a lot of vehicle sizing issues might also diminish.

It just seems clear to me, especially when you look at the older metal IG, that the guard have gotten larger in recent years, which only exacerbated the problem.

Guardsmen should be truescale. Makes them a lot thinner (so natural) and slightly shorter. Heroic scale should be kept for Marines only as they are cartooney already.

So I agree. Truescale guard are superior and make many of the 40k models look that bit more natural. Eldar and Tau should also be truescale. Leaving orks and so on to be bigger.

 Crimson wrote:

 chromedog wrote:

The leman russ is about 60% the size it should be (at minimum).

Okay, let's unpack this; many people seem to think this or something similar. Why you think this is the case? How large you think a 'real life' Leman Russ would be?

Sky scraper.

Warhounds are taller than everest.


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Da Butcha wrote:
As a psychological question, if people agree (in general) that Marines should be larger in proportion to Imperial Guard, why then do so many people think that the Marine models should be bigger?

I mean, why not say that the Guardsmen should be smaller?

I mean, I can see (and agree with) the first, but how does the second follow? Why are guardsmen accepted as 'correctly scaled', instead of Marines (especially given GW's overabundance of marines).

GW even said that it was the IG models that were the wrong size (too large), and that the rest of the 40k infantry were roughly correct.

This, from long, long ago:
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?36934-What-scale-are-games-workshop-models

 Selym wrote:

GW even said that it was the IG models that were the wrong size (too large), and that the rest of the 40k infantry were roughly correct.

Basically this.

Also, wasn't the 8-9 foot marine stated to be 'unusually large' in the actual book, and the author is known for injecting 'largeness' to even non Marines? Somehow, this one large guy was projected onto all marines?