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Blaktoof - thanks for violating rule one, makes me eager to respond

He is a member of the unit, and the unit entire gains the rule

You more general rule that formation rules are given to models is, frankly , irrelevant as I have pointed out

Keep clutching at straws, and insults, as your concession on this is accepted. Please mark your posts hywpi.

Having read through the thread and the rules that have been shown, I also read it so an IC with a deep strike rule (e.g. from terminator armour) is okay, but someone without it makes it an illegal deployment and causes the unit not be able to be deployed at all.

Amiricle, I have done the same. Makes these rules discussions more pleasant.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Blaktoof - thanks for violating rule one, makes me eager to respond

He is a member of the unit, and the unit entire gains the rule

You more general rule that formation rules are given to models is, frankly , irrelevant as I have pointed out

Keep clutching at straws, and insults, as your concession on this is accepted. Please mark your posts hywpi.

1a. Don't say that someone is wrong, instead you explain why you think their opinion is wrong. Criticize the opinion, not the person.

Looking at my posts I have explained why your opinion is wrong.

unfortunately you continue to post incomplete rules saying things like "the special rule is conferred to the unit" then your opinion ignores the RAW on special rules and ICs, and then you ignore when I state that the "special rule is conferred to units in the formation" which is the complete RAW for that rule and the the IC is not a unit from the formation, and you wish to ignore rules for detachments as that makes your opinion invalid, but at the same time the rule you are trying to benefit from is a detachment/formation/datasheet rule so obviously the rules for them are relevant and cannot be ignored as that is the source of granting the special rule.

I concede to you, not because you are right but because you do not care about making a RAW arguement, or discussing the rules. You win that you cannot give up, and we are done talking. I will not reply to anymore of your comments, so do not worry. You won the I will not give up award, and I concede to your HYWPI opinion as you have yet to actually state a single RAW arguement without ignoring rules completely or omitting parts of rules you seem to find not supportive of your opinion.

nos, the unit has the special rule "Descent of Angels", correct?

Does the special rule specify that it confers to Independent Characters?

If the answer to the second question is no, then per the Independent Character rules, the special rule "Descent of Angels" does not confer to the IC.

The rule is there for when all models have a rule like feel no pain; an IC joining doesn't gain the rule.

Here the unit entire gains the rule. Is the IC a member of the unit?

Blaktoof - your hywpi argument is accepted.

A Special Rule listed in the Army Entry list, without ( ) after it, indicates that Special Rule is for which Models in the Unit?
If the logic that this Rule transfers because it is granted to the Unit as a whole, then the same logic would allow Feel no Pain and all other Special Rules to transfer as they are granted to models within the Unit as well.

No transferring involved. The entire unit gains it , the unit doesn't give it to the IC.

This is based on the Rule stating an Independent Character is considered part of the Unit for all Rule purposes, correct?

The literal wording in each Army List explained section is that Any Special Rules that apply to the models within the Unit are listed here. If anything, the Special Rules listed in the Army Listings have just as much ground to be applied to an Independent Character then a Rule granting Special Rules to the Formation Rule. After all, if we do not treat the Independent Character as being a Model within the Unit it has joined we have broken the Rule informing us that it is part of the Unit for all Rule purposes. This doesn't become a problem however, because we have a specific Restriction informing us that Special Rules do not confer from Independent Character to Unit or vise versa. A Rule clearly designed specifically to prevent us from being able to transfer Special Rules from one Unit to the other simply by 'joining' them together.

So if that Rule is enough to exempt the Independent Character from being considered as part of the Unit for the default Rules which grant Special Rules to the joined Unit, why is it not valid for a secondary Rule which does nothing more then grant Special Rules to the joined Unit?