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ATAHobbies wrote:
FLGS Here,
In all Honesty, GW is without a doubt the best manufacturer/distributor that we have. They are incredibly prompt when we call (which isn't as common as you would think) and actually work with us to stock what is best for us. I had to actually talk THEM into selling me items that they weren't sure were right for us, and they sent us hundreds of dollars in fixtures and scenery for free. Direct Only items aren't really direct only, they just take a bit longer to arrive (for us it's 2 extra days) and while we don't receive the same discount as we do most trade items, their direct order costs are much cheaper than most other companies. Manufacturers often offer freebies to retailers as a way to promote themselves in a store. I appreciate it because I don't have to pay companies to showcase their items, and that in turn leads to more exposure for them.

Think about it this way
Company A sends you posters, a demo table, minis and terrain to showcase the game to new hobbyists, as well as guides to selling product and flyers for customers
Company B has all of these items available, but require you to pay for them (the demo table for another popular game costs us $175)
Company C doesn't have any promotional material available other than what's on their website, and you have to make everything yourself

Which one is the obvious choice to showcase in your store?

In all fairness. Your store just opened last weekend. You haven't spent the last decade dealing with GWs monkey business. Plenty of retailers do have that experience.

Did GW help you get started? Yes, but at what cost? You have a huge amount of opening stock on hand. Would they have helped you if you had ordered half of that amount?

I checked your stores facebook page for the info in my response.

My local owner gets $1000 in free product every year for keeping his shelves stocked with whatever happens to be on the GW "list." That include paint and specific products from the Warhammer lines. He even has a limited edition LotR box that has been sitting there for years, collecting dust, lol.

He typically spends the 1000 on GW terrain/battle boards for the shop, and has an army for fantasy and 40k as "store armies." I don't know that I would call it a bribe, but it is good business. Heck, the players even benefit in decent stores that use those kick-backs for game space.

 Moktor wrote:
My local owner gets $1000 in free product every year for keeping his shelves stocked with whatever happens to be on the GW "list." That include paint and specific products from the Warhammer lines. He even has a limited edition LotR box that has been sitting there for years, collecting dust, lol.

He typically spends the 1000 on GW terrain/battle boards for the shop, and has an army for fantasy and 40k as "store armies." I don't know that I would call it a bribe, but it is good business. Heck, the players even benefit in decent stores that use those kick-backs for game space.

Wait what? GW is giving him armies for "store armies"? Then why does GW force it's employees years ago they had to buy their armies and paint them so they could be store armies. Or was this someone just throwing mud at GW at the time? I always thought GW made their employees but the armies at a discount 50% or more but then had to be used for the Store's Display and some of them for the Public to use. Does this still apply or what this always a lie that some how I believed all this time?

Davor wrote:

 Moktor wrote:
My local owner gets $1000 in free product every year for keeping his shelves stocked with whatever happens to be on the GW "list." That include paint and specific products from the Warhammer lines. He even has a limited edition LotR box that has been sitting there for years, collecting dust, lol.

He typically spends the 1000 on GW terrain/battle boards for the shop, and has an army for fantasy and 40k as "store armies." I don't know that I would call it a bribe, but it is good business. Heck, the players even benefit in decent stores that use those kick-backs for game space.

Wait what? GW is giving him armies for "store armies"? Then why does GW force it's employees years ago they had to buy their armies and paint them so they could be store armies. Or was this someone just throwing mud at GW at the time? I always thought GW made their employees but the armies at a discount 50% or more but then had to be used for the Store's Display and some of them for the Public to use. Does this still apply or what this always a lie that some how I believed all this time?

Think it's less that GW is giving him the army and more that he's used the $1000 of credit they give him for stocking their listed products to buy whole armies for the store, along with terrain etc.

Davor wrote:

 Moktor wrote:
My local owner gets $1000 in free product every year for keeping his shelves stocked with whatever happens to be on the GW "list." That include paint and specific products from the Warhammer lines. He even has a limited edition LotR box that has been sitting there for years, collecting dust, lol.

He typically spends the 1000 on GW terrain/battle boards for the shop, and has an army for fantasy and 40k as "store armies." I don't know that I would call it a bribe, but it is good business. Heck, the players even benefit in decent stores that use those kick-backs for game space.

Wait what? GW is giving him armies for "store armies"? Then why does GW force it's employees years ago they had to buy their armies and paint them so they could be store armies. Or was this someone just throwing mud at GW at the time? I always thought GW made their employees but the armies at a discount 50% or more but then had to be used for the Store's Display and some of them for the Public to use. Does this still apply or what this always a lie that some how I believed all this time?

I know my local GW does not have a store army to use and that all the models in the display case where the redshirts.

I also heard a while back that employees where expected to own at least one army for all three games to prove they know the product line.

Davor wrote:

 Moktor wrote:
My local owner gets $1000 in free product every year for keeping his shelves stocked with whatever happens to be on the GW "list." That include paint and specific products from the Warhammer lines. He even has a limited edition LotR box that has been sitting there for years, collecting dust, lol.

He typically spends the 1000 on GW terrain/battle boards for the shop, and has an army for fantasy and 40k as "store armies." I don't know that I would call it a bribe, but it is good business. Heck, the players even benefit in decent stores that use those kick-backs for game space.

Wait what? GW is giving him armies for "store armies"? Then why does GW force it's employees years ago they had to buy their armies and paint them so they could be store armies. Or was this someone just throwing mud at GW at the time? I always thought GW made their employees but the armies at a discount 50% or more but then had to be used for the Store's Display and some of them for the Public to use. Does this still apply or what this always a lie that some how I believed all this time?

The point of GW giving the store the $1000 is to try to encourage their business- they must sell a reasonable amount of stuff and GW is just acting how any other company would in this regard to help promote a friendly relationship between themselves and a valuable asset, the FLGS.

They don't help their own stores because what is the store "manager" going to do about it? Sell other products? No, there is no threat they can provide without losing their jobs, therefore they don't require additional incentive.

See Futurama: Brannigan, Begin Again for the perfect example

Zapp plays GW and Kif the store manager:

Zapp: So, do I have your loyalty, men?
Bender: [saluting] To the ends of the universe.
Fry: Ten hundred percent!
Zapp: That's not nearly loyal enough. I order you to sit around and drink beer until you're as loyal as Kif here.
[He hands them some beers and Kif returns.]
Bender: Yes, sir, sir!
Kif: Um, may I have a beer, sir?
Zapp: No. You're loyal enough already.

OH I know why GW gave the store $1000 in stuff, I was asking about GW making their employees buying their own product they have to sell.

I just thought it weird they would give the store free stuff but force their employees into buying their own product. I forgot about it, and Moktor reminded me about it.

 inquisitorlewis wrote:

ATAHobbies wrote:
FLGS Here,
In all Honesty, GW is without a doubt the best manufacturer/distributor that we have. They are incredibly prompt when we call (which isn't as common as you would think) and actually work with us to stock what is best for us. I had to actually talk THEM into selling me items that they weren't sure were right for us, and they sent us hundreds of dollars in fixtures and scenery for free. Direct Only items aren't really direct only, they just take a bit longer to arrive (for us it's 2 extra days) and while we don't receive the same discount as we do most trade items, their direct order costs are much cheaper than most other companies. Manufacturers often offer freebies to retailers as a way to promote themselves in a store. I appreciate it because I don't have to pay companies to showcase their items, and that in turn leads to more exposure for them.

Think about it this way
Company A sends you posters, a demo table, minis and terrain to showcase the game to new hobbyists, as well as guides to selling product and flyers for customers
Company B has all of these items available, but require you to pay for them (the demo table for another popular game costs us $175)
Company C doesn't have any promotional material available other than what's on their website, and you have to make everything yourself

Which one is the obvious choice to showcase in your store?

In all fairness. Your store just opened last weekend. You haven't spent the last decade dealing with GWs monkey business. Plenty of retailers do have that experience.

Did GW help you get started? Yes, but at what cost? You have a huge amount of opening stock on hand. Would they have helped you if you had ordered half of that amount?

I checked your stores facebook page for the info in my response.

Yeah, the few FLGS owners around this area (some have been going only a few years, others for 20 or so years) have said GW was nice to them to start with and then turned sour after a few years, especially after GW opened their own store within ~15 minutes drive of the FLGS's.

Davor wrote:
OH I know why GW gave the store $1000 in stuff, I was asking about GW making their employees buying their own product they have to sell.

I just thought it weird they would give the store free stuff but force their employees into buying their own product. I forgot about it, and Moktor reminded me about it.

it has never been my experience, with any of my friends working at GW (from the first California store in Santa Monica in '91, to the L.A. Battle Bunker, the New York City Store, the Amsterdam store, the Auckland store, and a few others), that anyone ever had to buy minis for the displays, or that they had to buy armies that the public could the use...
it hasn't even been my experience that there were store armies ready for public use...
that would kind of defeat the purpose of getting people to buy their own minis, thus slowing sales...

in my experience, only the intro table armies were for the public, and then only for a few intro games before the customer needed to start buying some minis...
the minis for the intro armies are painted by the employees, but they don't have to purchase the starter, and then "donate" it back to the shop...

it used to be that the employees all chipped into to paint every new release for the display cabinet, a month or so before the minis were available (before the end of proper previews), but these were sent down from HQ, not purchased by the employees...
i'm not sure how it is working now, with the lack of previews, and one-man stores...
i used to be given the character models to paint for the display case, which was cool, since it saved me money, and i had the minis a month or more before the rest of the regulars...

times are definitely changing, though...
fifteen years ago was a much better time to be a customer...

loved your Battletech comment in the other thread about how to choose a starting army, by the way, Davor...
30 years ago that box set turned me down the path that has led to a nice little career in mini painting...
that box cover was magical, opening up a whole new world...

cheers
jah

I'll counter that...

From 2004 to 2012, all GW employees in my region had to have 3 painted, working armies to show that they were proficient in all aspects the game. I know this because I used to purchase those armies from time to time and use them for prizes in my tournaments that I used to run. If they did not have 3 painted armies (one 40K, one WHFB, one LotR) readied at the time of employment they were given time to to have them completed on their expense and no longer than 3 months to do this.

Fortunately most GW employees did have three armies for employment. If not it was mostly LotR that they were weak in. And in that time period I did not see anyone get fired by not having those 3 painted armies because they have completed this requirement.

God I miss those days BSing with the employees after work and working on some of their projects for display.

you'll counter what???
i never said they didn't have to have their own armies...
i said they didn't have to buy armies for the display cases, that were then used by the public, which was the line that Davor had been told...
that would be truly messed up...

having your own armies, with a nice discount is a whole other thing, and not a bad one...
the whole point of working for a GW store was to get paid to enjoy the hobby, and get a wicked discount on minis...

cheers
jah

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Yeah, the few FLGS owners around this area (some have been going only a few years, others for 20 or so years) have said GW was nice to them to start with and then turned sour after a few years, especially after GW opened their own store within ~15 minutes drive of the FLGS's.

If GW use the FLGS as a live survey of demand for an area, those 'bribes' are their marketing budget.
Once a FLGS makes GW popular, they then move their own store in up the road, and those few $1000 were groundwork.
It's a nasty way to work, but we know all it's probably how they do.

 Azreal13 wrote:

 Steve steveson wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:


You missed the fact I specifically stated faulty product, yes, there are instances where GW have gone above and beyond, but there are equally as many instances where people have praised them for merely doing what they're obliged to do as a matter of law.

No I didn't. You ignored what I was saying. They replace faulty items without question, and answer the phone and emails very quickly and not by forcing you to phone a premium rate line o refer you back to the shop. Those are not a matter of law. Most of the time they don't demand any proof, they don't demand you return it (most of the time, as it seems they have a random return policy, or a high claim return policy as fraud prevention), and don't make you jump through hoops like most companies do.

Replacing or refunding faulty items is a legal obligation on companies. That is the only point I made, in reference to how people praise GW for doing this, and only this, on a semi regular basis.

Everything else you seem to be responding to as if I said it you've largely extracted from your rectum I'm afraid, I agree that prompt service, no questions asked replacements etc are at least a little above the norm for retail as a whole (but in no ways unique or unusual) but that wasn't what I said, and remains so.

It's not what they do, but they way they do it, but you seem to be determiner to dismiss everything I am saying and restrict it down to one tiny point to prove what you want to say. No one is praising them for doing the legal minimum, but the way in which they do it.

 jah-joshua wrote:

it used to be that the employees all chipped into to paint every new release for the display cabinet, a month or so before the minis were available (before the end of proper previews), but these were sent down from HQ, not purchased by the employees...
i'm not sure how it is working now, with the lack of previews, and one-man stores...
i used to be given the character models to paint for the display case, which was cool, since it saved me money, and i had the minis a month or more before the rest of the regulars...

My understanding from my local store is that it is still much the same. I think they don't get them a long time in advance, but the guys in the shop do spend time building and painting stuff for display (during work hours. Most times I go in to the store in the week one of them will be stood at the till leaning or gluing something), but from talking to them they all enjoy doing it.

Thanks Jah for the explanation about store employees being forced to buy products. Good to know GW never did this, and I believed a lie all this time.

It is not a bribe at all. It is normal manufacturer to wholesaler relationship.

Manufacturer makes something, wants distributor to buy it.

Distributor plays coy.

Manufacturer gives better price (which he probably already built into his costing..), or throws in goodwill freebies to sweeten the deal (payment terms, actual physical items, better price on next order of such and such, etc etc.)

This is not a bribe. It's how manufacturer to distributor relations work in just about any industry, anywhere, for anything.


-- Haight

 Steve steveson wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:

 Steve steveson wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:


You missed the fact I specifically stated faulty product, yes, there are instances where GW have gone above and beyond, but there are equally as many instances where people have praised them for merely doing what they're obliged to do as a matter of law.

No I didn't. You ignored what I was saying. They replace faulty items without question, and answer the phone and emails very quickly and not by forcing you to phone a premium rate line o refer you back to the shop. Those are not a matter of law. Most of the time they don't demand any proof, they don't demand you return it (most of the time, as it seems they have a random return policy, or a high claim return policy as fraud prevention), and don't make you jump through hoops like most companies do.

Replacing or refunding faulty items is a legal obligation on companies. That is the only point I made, in reference to how people praise GW for doing this, and only this, on a semi regular basis.

Everything else you seem to be responding to as if I said it you've largely extracted from your rectum I'm afraid, I agree that prompt service, no questions asked replacements etc are at least a little above the norm for retail as a whole (but in no ways unique or unusual) but that wasn't what I said, and remains so.

It's not what they do, but they way they do it, but you seem to be determiner to dismiss everything I am saying and restrict it down to one tiny point to prove what you want to say. No one is praising them for doing the legal minimum, but the way in which they do it.

Except that I have seen people start threads to more or less do exactly that, right here in Dakka, and that was my original point.

Nobody goes around saying "I took a shirt back today because there was a hole in it when I got it home, the assistant offered to replace it or even give me a refund! They were perfectly pleasant about it! They didn't even punch me in the face for having the temerity to bring it to their attention!!!" But people have made threads about very similar situations WRT GW.

I did try and make the distinction between doing the minimum and going above and beyond, of which there are numerous examples of GW staff doing, but evidently that wasn't going to stop you jumping down my throat, even on the third time of pointing it out.