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I mean after all, didn't like, a handfull of squads basically hold off half of Gomorrah at one point ... lol

I am going to assume you haven't read the corresponding fluff because if you have and still came to this conclusion, then i question your comprehension skills. Firstly, by handful of squads, you mean 24 strike cruisers + The Forgehammer + Vulkan's Wrath (which is a Battle Barge). So going off the amount of Marines these ships usually contain (1 company for Strike Cruisers, maybe 2 or 3 for Battle Barges) we can safely assume that those ''handful of squads'' was in fact anywhere up to 2500 Marines, including losses from The Forgehammer. That is equivalent to 2 AND A HALF CHAPTERS. A few squads is selling it just a little short.

Secondly, everything, and i mean everything, that went right for the Marines happened singularly because Vect wanted it to. The rest of the ships wouldn't of even been able to get into the Webway had Vect not left the door open with a ''Take the first left'' sign there to lead them straight to Commaragh. They wouldn't of gotten out of the Haywire field trapping them without them ''mysteriously shutting off''. They would of been routed by the Noble houses had a 'stray' Dark Lance not of erased Kraillarch from existence and Lelith Hesperax not put some literal daggers into Yllithian's back then pulled back. They would of been harried all the way out of the webway had Vect's own forces not fired upon the Dark Eldar giving chase.

The entire fact those Space Marines managed to last so long is much more a testament to Vect then it is to the actual Marines involved.

Sorry, but this has been brought up a few times before in Dark Eldar related topics and this is not me getting at you, but most Marine advocates tend to leave out these bits when they make claims of Space Marines invading Commaragh, and it gives the wrong impression.

I am going to assume you haven't read the corresponding fluff because if you have and still came to this conclusion, then i question your comprehension skills. Firstly, by handful of squads, you mean 24 strike cruisers + The Forgehammer + Vulkan's Wrath (which is a Battle Barge). So going off the amount of Marines these ships usually contain (1 company for Strike Cruisers, maybe 2 or 3 for Battle Barges) we can safely assume that those ''handful of squads'' was in fact anywhere up to 2500 Marines, including losses from The Forgehammer. That is equivalent to 2 AND A HALF CHAPTERS. A few squads is selling it just a little short.

Secondly, everything, and i mean everything, that went right for the Marines happened singularly because Vect wanted it to. The rest of the ships wouldn't of even been able to get into the Webway had Vect not left the door open with a ''Take the first left'' sign there to lead them straight to Commaragh. They wouldn't of gotten out of the Haywire field trapping them without them ''mysteriously shutting off''. They would of been routed by the Noble houses had a 'stray' Dark Lance not of erased Kraillarch from existence and Lelith Hesperax not put some literal daggers into Yllithian's back then pulled back. They would of been harried all the way out of the webway had Vect's own forces not fired upon the Dark Eldar giving chase.

lol So I was largely joking, but if you're going to take this that seriously, yes, the fact that the cruiser was captured in the first place was Vect. The fact that Strike Force got there at all was Vect. None of this changes the fact that in a straight up fight where the DE held nearly every possible advantage ... a relatively small number of Marines held a huge portion of DE at bay.

Yeah, not much is going to stand up to the marine rescue force that eventually came in after them, but it IS telling that the DE were unable to overwhelm the Marines in the lone cruiser (was it a cruiser Vect captured? I don't remember the ship class anymore). Marines who were stranded in the only possible place in all of existance where the word "Murder" is used more often than in the Space Wolves codex, and a city so full of dark/ancient technology that it supposedly rivals the necrons ... and yet ... all the marines had to do was kill DE till the cavalry came in.

I actually really like DE so I'm not a "Marine proponent". I just don't know that a straight up fight would go well for the DE and that's why I said I can't see them "picking" too many fights with such a hard target. That's largely WHY their raids are so successful - they pick easy targets. Even in an ambush, Marines would not be an easy target.

Lol@ Phoenix Lords being "equal" to Primarchs. A Primarch would mop the floor with Jain Zar's OTT head dress. Phoenix Lords don't break Exalted Greater Daemons over their knee!

No, a primarch and a pheonix lord are equal in power. They are the oldest fighters alive, who have been fighting since before humanity's rise.

Lol@ Phoenix Lords being "equal" to Primarchs. A Primarch would mop the floor with Jain Zar's OTT head dress. Phoenix Lords don't break Exalted Greater Daemons over their knee!

I somehow missed that in the initial reply. Yes. Lol indeed. Phoenix Lords are tough. They are not THAT tough. Also, as I was typing this sentence I realized I had misspelled "Phoenix Lords" as "Phonix Lords". Just found that amusing ...


EDIT:

No, a primarch and a pheonix lord are equal in power.

Source?

DOUBLE EDIT:

Actually that's veering way OT from the thread purpose. I am curious though. If you have a source please PM?

To be fair, the fact the Marines inside the strike crusiers survived so long was also to do with Vect..

When Vect has control of the the Strike Crusier, he played a waiting game. He didn't throw his entire force into the strike crusier, instead he fed untrustworthy elements of his kabal in short ranged close assault kind of fighting, the kind marines excel at and Dark Eldar struggle.

So that factors into another way how Vect helped the Marines stay alive until the cavalry arrived.

To avoid going OT, sure, i'd gladly PM you the Phoenix Lords feats.

I remember reading a short story about a 10 man Space Wolf unit holding off several raiding parties on a backwater planet. Can't remember which story it was though...

Strike cruiser can have up to or more than 100 marines, highly trained serfs and various gun drones.

Inside its tight confines its a close combat nightmare, range is short, close combat, swords, fists, or rifle butts.

Even the incredible skill of dark eldar has a tough fight. Marines do not die easy and are fast to recover. They can lose limbs and worse. Not much room to dodge in a corridor.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Phoenix Lords are Primarch level characters

Source?

instead he fed untrustworthy elements of his kabal in short ranged close assault kind of fighting, the kind marines excel at and Dark Eldar struggle.

Actually, isn't the *exactly* the kind of fight DE SHOULD excel at? What with their main thing being speed/agility/reflexes?

Strike cruiser can have up to or more than 100 marines, highly trained serfs and various gun drones.

That's correct. As I recall though (I could honestly be recalling this incorectly though) it was a crippled cruiser and no longer had a fully functioning compliment of crew or equipment.

Inside its tight confines its a close combat nightmare, range is short, close combat, swords, fists, or rifle butts.

Which, again, with DE being so fast/etc, and severely outnumbering the marines, should have played right into the DE's favor.

Not much room to dodge in a corridor.

Ok. You have me there. THAT is actually a very good point and along with not exactly having floor plans for the cruiser, would certainly contribute to the Marines delaying the DE, but we're still talking about a race known for just appearing out of nowhere and slicing everyone up before melting away again. You're telling me that all it took to stifle them was hallways?

No not that they held it in some Alamo action of constant inter corridor and crampt space combat. Though if vect wanted to channel groups to there death in that ship, if he found a way to get marines to the city that's a small one. He did want them to calk friends.

He could have done any kind of trick to ensure the marines kept in the fight to call aid. Be it deliberate sabotage or holding back tech/Intel or even key storming troops suffering accidents etc.

Though even if a bad casualties of 50% or marines, 5 sqauds could make that a very bad place, those small confined spaces, no way round, they know every back way and trick round the ship. Traps, ambush, sudonly that back way turns into a metre thick bulkhead etc. Yes dark eldar are very deadly but this is marines home turf. They can almost ambush the legendary ambushers.

The only thing that remains to be answered is how the Dark Eldar ever manage to bring any loot or slaves back home. Raiders are cardboard boxes with engines strapped on, frail craft that disintegrate from a stern gaze or a harsh word. The DE usually run home from any fight. I just don't see the value in spending fifty warriors and five Raiders on dragging home whatever prisoners fit in the Archon's transport instead of dead Court members.

I prefer to plan for the future.

Citizens implanted with bombs. Just run at them. Somewhere, in a cabal, someone has to do a cost benefit analysis.