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Power armour is effective personal body armour, but it's not Iron Man armour. Iron Man can (at full power) lift upwards of 85 tons over his head, and his repulsors can level buildings.

I would say that an unarmoured Marine is superior to main universe Captain America mano a mano, but Cap's strength, when dealing with units above his power level, is tactical organization of the Avenger's heavy hitters. Getting there firstest, fastest, with the mostest.

To be frank, without the altitude advantage given by space launching pads, a company of marines wouldn't last even against normal human level militaries in the world today. Sure, they'd do a lot of damage, but anti-armour weapons today would take them down. Marvel U has the normal militaries and super heroes (as does DC).

The kind of door to door fighting necessary to conquer Earth would be hell for Marines. It would be like fighting insurgents in Iraq, where Iraq is the entire world.

 Torga_DW wrote:

valace2 wrote:
So I have seen the silly comparisons of Star Wars/Trek vs the Imperium of Man, and due to its sheer size and the scope of the setting there really is no comparison between the settings. I have also seen some even more screwy "what ifs" where the Imperium of Man came to our Earth and it was simply a backward primitive planet.

My question is how would an Astarte Chapter fare if they were were to come to the Earth of the Marvel Universe? I know that should the full brunt of the Imperium fall on Earth is would be over in a matter of seconds. But how would a company of Astartes fare against say the Avengers?

Astartes are the most perfectly engineered warriors but how could even a squad of Assault Terminators manage the Hulk?

How would a pre Daemon Prince Angron fare against Wolverine?

Characters such as Thor or Superman from DC would still be OP and probably be able to manage even the primarchs but for now we could leave them out of the conversation.

Participate or not, just on a Marvel kick at the moment and bored.

Oooh, this sounds interesting and worthwhile. Okay, here's my postulations:

1 - captain america is a supersoldier, so he's a marine equivalent.

2 - captain america and his mighty shield were able to tussle with thor (on that island where thor was trying to take loki from the shield transport plane) without getting seriously injured.

3 - iron man was also able to fight thor without getting seriously injured, and he's wearing power armour. So a marine can be roughly compared to captain america wearing ironman armour.

4 - hawkeye and scarlett johanson are largely just humans. Yes hawkeye does some good ranged firepower, but its over when scarlett reaches him in close combat.

5 - a company of marines will have an arsenal of tanks, aircraft, and support weapons (no need to weigh into the librarian/warp debate at this point).

6 - the hulk just can't be beaten. Its like gravity suddenly flowing upwards, it can't happen.

So my conclusion - everyone dies a horrible horrible death except the hulk. Only the city gets wrecked a lot more. The hulk jumps into orbit and destroys the marine's space ship, then jumps back to earth.

Movies =/= Comics

The movies toned down a lot of their stats by quite a margin, especially Hulk and Thor. Though Thor and Hulk can go toe to toe for a while, until Hulk's rage and thus strength surpasses a certain point.

But yeah, Captain America would likely be stuck in quite the jam against Astartes and almost definitely overcome. Iron man, well I guess then one has to wonder which of his many suits will he be wearing? Something light like the Centurion? Oh, is he ever so fethed. His old 2007 comics battle armor which while only a bit bulkier than his movie suit, weighs upwards of a ton? Interesting fight, probably could go toe to toe against a few Astartes at a time. Hulkbuster? Gonna need a lot of anti armor real fast, and maybe fire Mephiston out of a demolished cannon while your at it.

But Hulk and Thor would have a field day.

"When Captain America throws his mighty shield,
All those who chose to oppose his shield must yield."

Unless they have a robot arm.

Hah. Doom would ally with the Marines to become Earth's Planetary Governor. There's nothing those so-called 'heroes' would be able to do.

PS: Sentry and Xavier are no more. Magneto and Emma Frost had their abilities quite reduced in power after the last Phoenix saga. Avengers are pretty reduced in power and are basically disassembled, while the new Cap (ex-Falcon) used pym particles to hold in prison a LOT of heroes. X-Men went baddy.

Only Doom can save Earth as it stands now!
(Oh, and Doom + Loki are Tzeentch's manifestations in Earth, but don't tell the Emp's glory boys that!)

Just as planned

You would have a select few heroes/villains who would just wreck the Imperium's face. The rest not so much. Magneto could pretty much handle them all on his own. Pheonix is basically a high Beta or maybe a borderline Alpha level Psyker. Wolverine would fair pretty well due to regeneration but his adamantium claws would be nulled pretty much. Remember that 40k uses adamantium on everything and it gets cut through just like other metals. It would take a while to kill him but eventually he would die. Hulk would be basically a super-Warboss. Hellfire rounds there. Thor could fry them and his hammer would be like a Thunder Hammer that strikes at Intitivate, but it wouldn't be much help vs things like Storm Shields. Captain America would close to Space Marines in that he is superhuman. But remember that Marines also have 19 organs that give them stuff other than strength such as the ability to ignore sleep or instantly clot wounds, as well as incredible levels of training and cold, calculating brains. They move in squads and use advanced tactics, whereas there is no-one who can really train Steve Rogers to be Superhuman, not to mention the huge guns and impenetrable armour. Humans or weak characters like Hawkeye or Toad would vanish in seconds. Imagine Hawkeye having a shootout with the likes of Telion. It would be over fairly quickly.
Iron Man might fair well due to having an army of suits to control and his agile flight abilities. Certainly, much more agile and maneurable than Jump Packs. But how would he fair vs Hunters, Stalkers, Whirlwind Hyperios, Flakk Missiles, Thunderhawks, Stormravens, Stormtalons? How would his weapon systems fair vs Power Armour? Or worse, Terminator Armour?
Then you have guys like Professor X. Would he be a match for a trained Librarian? If so, what level? A Codicer? An Epistolary? Would be be able to take on a Chief Librarian?
I also think I've heard of one Marvel character who's whispers can shatter rock with the power of them? Lives on the moon or something, but Marvel has that level of power.

Earth has ICBMs. Battle-Barge has Void shields and Cyclonic Bombardment and Macro-Cannons and Lances which can destroy whole city blocks in a single shot. Their aircraft far outstrips anythinf we have in terms of firepower, speed, maneuverability (the Stormtalon) and durability, as well as being able to carry a large amount of Space Marines.

Honestly, its a tough question. But I'd have to give it to Imperium. A society built upon making war vs modern Earth with superheroes? Let's face it, once they realised they have characters like Magneto and Pheonix to face, they'd simply Lance strike him from orbit (can't affect laser energy with metal-bending) and likely send in a Culexus Assassin. Assuming that if the two were to coexist, Pheonix and Prof X and the rest would have their powers just like 40k psykers (a mutated gene which connects them to the warp). Otherwise, Exterminatus and leave. That's assuming ahe's an Alpha Psyker, otherwise they'd have a few Librarians deal with her.


Its a difficult question to answer?

 Laughingcarp wrote:
But guys like Punisher, Daredevil, etc? They're still just human.

So is Sly Marbo. Sly Marbo eats marines for breakfast.

 Deadshot wrote:
Remember that 40k uses adamantium on everything and it gets cut through just like other metals.

If by everything you mean Terminator armour, than sure.

If its great crusade era and before ullanor the emperor and a legion or two hundreds of capitol ships vs non marvel military "nukes could blow up battle ships" er no void shields. hulk would smash every thing let him smash the emperor he would die in a instant all marvel psykers vs emperor ha they all die.

 Happyjew wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
Remember that 40k uses adamantium on everything and it gets cut through just like other metals.

If by everything you mean Terminator armour, than sure.

And Power Armour and Chainswords and Kraken Rounds and Power Swords and all their vehicles.

 Deadshot wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
Remember that 40k uses adamantium on everything and it gets cut through just like other metals.

If by everything you mean Terminator armour, than sure.

And Power Armour and Chainswords and Kraken Rounds and Power Swords and all their vehicles.

Actually power armour is only really made of ceramite plating not adamantium. Also I'm fairly sure that adamantium is only used in rarer tech like terminator armour and super-heavy vehicles. Otherwise they just use plasteel and other more ubiquitous material since adamantium is too valuable and rare to be used in everything like you say they do.

Burn the Heretic.
Purge the Mutant.
Abhor the Witch.
Suffer not the unclean to live.

Prepare the cyclonic torpedoes.

 Grimskul wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
Remember that 40k uses adamantium on everything and it gets cut through just like other metals.

If by everything you mean Terminator armour, than sure.

And Power Armour and Chainswords and Kraken Rounds and Power Swords and all their vehicles.

Actually power armour is only really made of ceramite plating not adamantium. Also I'm fairly sure that adamantium is only used in rarer tech like terminator armour and super-heavy vehicles. Otherwise they just use plasteel and other more ubiquitous material since adamantium is too valuable and rare to be used in everything like you say they do.

Quick googling has conflicting reports. Some results say Power Armour contains plasteel/adamantium layers but mostly ceramite. But even that I'm dubious about given that Ceramite is a ceramic-like material and thus not very strong (although very hard, which is not exactly what you want in armour like the marine wear). What they all agree on is that it is rare, and I fear my meaning may have been miscommunicated. I was referring only to Marine level gear. Kraken Bolts for certain I know have a solid adamantium tip for improved penetration, and I'm fairly certain a lot of Marine vehicles, definitely the Land Raiders and Flyers, have adamantium plates. Even if it is only stuff like Land Raiders and TDA, look at how easy it is for the Imperium to cut through it. Melta, Plasma, Lascannon, Grav-guns which basically ignore the fact its indestructible. Whereas in MU seemingly nothing can do gak to Wolverine's Adamantium except for Magneto (who is easily dealt with via Lance strike).

Originally, adamantium bullets could pierce adamantium. Though I think that might have been retcon'd.

 Happyjew wrote:
Originally, adamantium bullets could pierce adamantium. Though I think that might have been retcon'd.

In which universe? And which sources? Movie-verse says no (X-men Origins Wolverine, shoots his skull with a Adamantium bullet, doesn't penetrate). In 40k, its down to the writer at the time.

Adamantium in Marvel U, which is a virtually indestructible metal, is not 40k Adamantium, which is merely the strongest metal available.

 Grimskul wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:
Remember that 40k uses adamantium on everything and it gets cut through just like other metals.

If by everything you mean Terminator armour, than sure.

And Power Armour and Chainswords and Kraken Rounds and Power Swords and all their vehicles.

Actually power armour is only really made of ceramite plating not adamantium. Also I'm fairly sure that adamantium is only used in rarer tech like terminator armour and super-heavy vehicles. Otherwise they just use plasteel and other more ubiquitous material since adamantium is too valuable and rare to be used in everything like you say they do.

All battleships are armored with meters-thick plates of "plasma-tempered adamantium".

It's fairly common in 40K. Less so in the MU

There is nothing in the 40k universe that can compete with even some very common characters, like Shadowcat, who can be invisible and phase through matter and just destroy electronics. Nevermind the extremely powerful characters, like Phoenix, and the fact that there are a zillion characters who pretty much can't die.

40k Psykers would be facerolled by Dr. Strange or Clea. After all, the Sorceror Supreme is the greatest practitioner of magic in the *universe*. Doc Strange has singlehandedly tricked, staved off, or outright defeated most of the Marvel versions of the Greater Demons, so he clearly has the whole Chaos thing figured out. Heck, his butler could probably defeat the Emperor.

The Marvel Universe is the only universe where there is a pissing match of who is more omnipotent than the other. It's the only universe where being a "God" (like Thor, Odin or Hercules) pretty low on the "infinitely powerful" totem pole. For example, Beyonder, the Celestials, Galactus, Death and Eternity. Being a great demon prince ruling your own dimension is barely a footnote.

Let's not forget that the Marvel superheroes have defeated or staved off a good chunk of these omnipotent beings, plus the Kree and Skrull empires (that would be a stand-in for the Eldar at the height of their civilization).

At the end of the day, a Marvel comic would read more like, an army of 500 billion have come invading from an alternate universe 40,000 years in the future: can these 6 superheroes defeat them all and save Earth?

HULK SMASH!




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Psienesis wrote:

All battleships are armored with meters-thick plates of "plasma-tempered adamantium".

It's fairly common in 40K. Less so in the MU

It's not the same adamantium though, because marvel adamantium couldn't be tempered by plasma Kinda moot, because Marvel has an answer for pretty much anything. Adamantium, meet Magneto. Imperial Knight, meet Celestial.

And when all else fails, the marvel side gets to time travel back, tailor their list, or replay any turn they don't like. Plus, Loki cheats.

Talys wrote:

It's not the same adamantium though, because marvel adamantium couldn't be tempered by plasma Kinda moot, because Marvel has an answer for pretty much anything. Adamantium, meet Magneto. Imperial Knight, meet Celestial.

It is the same Adamantium. The difference being that MU doesn't have the ability to temper via plasma, nor does it have access to weapons specifically designed to cut through adamantium like Meltaguns and Plasmaguns (man-portable), Lascannons and Demolisher Cannons (vehicle sized), Turbo-lasers, Meltacannons and Volcano Cannons (Titan/Superheavy) or Macro-Cannons and Lances on Ships. Whereas the MU is still working with things like Steel and titanium, adamantium being restricted to a select few individuals like Wolverine. Captain America has sokething similar in his shield, and Thir with his Hammer, but its not the same. Don't forget, the Imperial Palace were constructed by Rogal Dorn out of layers upon layers and layers of adamantium, and we all know the Imperial Palace is literally the most well defended place, likely of any setting in modern fiction. Horus's bombardment was almost able to break through that.

Thor's hammer isn't made of adamantium. It was made from another fictional metal called uru. Which, depending on the source, had to be forged in the core of a dying star.

And Marvel still has plenty of vibranium, anti-metal, carbonadium, etc. All other fictional metals that are comparable to adamantium and have been used by characters to pierce adamantium or shield against adamantium - or in the case of a vibranium isotope, shield against and absorb the kinetic energy of a nuclear blast making it seem like nothing more than a quite whisper. Vibranium, which a few iterations of Captain America's shield has been made of, can absorb kinetic energy to strengthen the bonds between its atoms. And despite being called a super rare metal that Wakanda controls the amount available in the world, almost every Marvel character and organization has gotten their hands on vibranium at some point and may or may not still be using it.

 Medium of Death wrote:

Burn the Heretic.
Purge the Mutant.
Abhor the Witch.
Suffer not the unclean to live.

Prepare the cyclonic torpedoes.

something like that has been tried before. This is what happened:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitty_Pryde#Breakworld

 King Pariah wrote:
Thor's hammer isn't made of adamantium. It was made from another fictional metal called uru. Which, depending on the source, had to be forged in the core of a dying star.

And Marvel still has plenty of vibranium, anti-metal, carbonadium, etc. All other fictional metals that are comparable to adamantium and have been used by characters to pierce adamantium or shield against adamantium - or in the case of a vibranium isotope, shield against and absorb the kinetic energy of a nuclear blast making it seem like nothing more than a quite whisper. Vibranium, which a few iterations of Captain America's shield has been made of, can absorb kinetic energy to strengthen the bonds between its atoms. And despite being called a super rare metal that Wakanda controls the amount available in the world, almost every Marvel character and organization has gotten their hands on vibranium at some point and may or may not still be using it.

I said something similar[i], as in, Adamantium, Vibranium and Uru, are all fictional indestructible supermetals with characteristics entirely depending on the comic/script writer.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vector Strike wrote:

 Medium of Death wrote:

[i]Burn the Heretic.
Purge the Mutant.
Abhor the Witch.
Suffer not the unclean to live.

Prepare the cyclonic torpedoes.

something like that has been tried before. This is what happened:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitty_Pryde#Breakworld

What's your point? As noted, that weapon was a bullet, not a missile. Imperium uses missiles. Lots of them. Be they Cyclonic, capable of unleashing kinetic energy that obliterates the surface of the planet, Melta Torpedoes that reduce everything for a few hundred miles to liquid slag and then vapourised under the heat, or via Virus Bombs in the chapter is particularly non-conformist. At which point, not even Iron Man's suits will protect and the only chance of survival would be to seek shelter in airtight bunkers. Remember that on Isstvan, the Life Eater was able to penetrate through Power Armour's grills and vents, despite Astartes plate being sealed even against hard vacuum. Not to mention the firestorm afterwards, as the rapid decomposition of every biological material on Earth creates a charnal house of flammable gases, promptly ignited by Lance Strike and bombardment.

Deadshot wrote:Pheonix is basically a high Beta or maybe a borderline Alpha level Psyker.

You're joking, right? Phoenix is Alpha Plus. When she went crazy she ran around the galaxy causing problems for the Shi'ar and doing Cyclonic Torpedo impersonations with nothing to help but her costume.

 Furyou Miko wrote:

Deadshot wrote:Pheonix is basically a high Beta or maybe a borderline Alpha level Psyker.

You're joking, right? Phoenix is Alpha Plus. When she went crazy she ran around the galaxy causing problems for the Shi'ar and doing Cyclonic Torpedo impersonations with nothing to help but her costume.

Never seen that one before, when was this?

Jean Grey - ultimate universe - also stopped what was practically a planet wide orbital bombardment of nukes with what looks like 1 nuke per every 50 sq meters by halting their fall, dismantling them and then slamming all the fissionable material together hard enough to cause it all to go supercritical and the resulting explosion she contained in an area about the size of Manhattan island far above the earth's surface. This was all at the expense of her own life.

As the Phoenix, she has gone toe to toe with the Beyonder and as the phoenix force, she has been seen annihilating entire planets in the blink of an eye as seen in the newer Nova comics where she turns an entire planet guarded by a herald of Galactus into dust - including the herald - within seconds.

Yes. Phoenix is possibly the most powerful 'hero' in the marvel universe, with the Galactus-level destruction potential. Beyonder is the single most powerful entity they have ever written, and gaming against him would be pointless. "All your models are now Smurfs! I'm bored now."

There are many other reality-altering artifacts, like the infinity gems, and reality altering powers like the power cosmic.


Re: Adamantium -- it isn't indestructible. After all, humans took it out of Wolverine. Nor is vibranium or Uru. Thor's hammer is also enchanted, and very little in the universe can affect it.

clively wrote:
Honestly, I would put the armed forces of at least the largest three nations on our real planet against a chapter of marines. 1000 marines (plus support) just isn't that much.

The situation as I see it is:

- Space Marine battlebarge enters orbit.
- Chapter Master broadcasts something along the lines of "Surrender or Die"
- China, Russia and the US moves their respective leaders into hidden remote locations.
- Space Marine drop pods land in 4 cities and begin shooting everything up.
- Armed forces of those nations respond.
- Space Marines continue to make a mess of things.
- China/Russia/US use small tactical nukes to take them out.
- China/Russia/US point larger ICBM nukes at Battlebarge in orbit.
- Battlebarge takes the hint and leaves.

I know the lore says that a single marine is enough for most planets, but seriously, if you have 100,000 guns, rockets, missiles and serious weapons trained on that one marine then he isn't going to be able to do squat. Also, 1,000 space marines isn't going to be enough to take out the entire C&C structure of Earth's armed forces.

Or it could go like this:

-Inquisition arrives.
-Exterminatus.

 ChocletEyeOfTerror wrote:

clively wrote:
Honestly, I would put the armed forces of at least the largest three nations on our real planet against a chapter of marines. 1000 marines (plus support) just isn't that much.

The situation as I see it is:

- Space Marine battlebarge enters orbit.
- Chapter Master broadcasts something along the lines of "Surrender or Die"
- China, Russia and the US moves their respective leaders into hidden remote locations.
- Space Marine drop pods land in 4 cities and begin shooting everything up.
- Armed forces of those nations respond.
- Space Marines continue to make a mess of things.
- China/Russia/US use small tactical nukes to take them out.
- China/Russia/US point larger ICBM nukes at Battlebarge in orbit.
- Battlebarge takes the hint and leaves.

I know the lore says that a single marine is enough for most planets, but seriously, if you have 100,000 guns, rockets, missiles and serious weapons trained on that one marine then he isn't going to be able to do squat. Also, 1,000 space marines isn't going to be enough to take out the entire C&C structure of Earth's armed forces.

Or it could go like this:

-Inquisition arrives.
-Exterminatus.

Or it could go like this:

Imperium arrives
High Evolutionary devolves them into Homo Erectus and then stick them all into Omium steel cages so he can re-evolve former astartes back into astartes one at a time in order to help further his knowledge in building the perfect race. Or even a god as he himself sees fit.

Surely any Marvel Psychics suddenly become vulnerable to the predations of Daemons?

Since they'll be too busy fighting hordes of Daemonic Legions they won't be able to stop the cyclonic torpedoes from finding their mark.

 King Pariah wrote:

Or it could go like this:

Imperium arrives
High Evolutionary devolves them into Homo Erectus and then stick them all into Omium steel cages so he can re-evolve former astartes back into astartes one at a time in order to help further his knowledge in building the perfect race. Or even a god as he himself sees fit.

<3 High Evolutionary.