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 DarthOvious wrote:

 Kriswall wrote:
You are adding an implied "can't be taken regularly to fill a slot" that isn't there.

I didn't add anything, it was added by the millions of gamers who have been playing this game for longer than you or I if you indeed think it was added.

So you do agree it was added and isn't actually in the rules? That it's just a million gamers worth of HYWPI? I agree also that this is the case.

Anyone claiming the can be taken as a slotted unit is making up rules that are not there.

There is no permission to take them slotted in their entry.

The listing that you can include them in your army if you take X is a rule, a specific rule in a codex

The rule thY the are spotless is a rule, a specific rule in their codex

There is no optional listed or stated, and as per the core rules in the rulebook that is how they have to be included in your army, as per the rules in their unit entry which gives the restriction of how they can be included in your army, and no rules listing it as optional.

Anyone claiming it is optional is being as silly as claiming relics are not unique because it says you can include one of each per army, then ignoring the rule as written and saying models are able to take relics so that is optional.

On a slightly related note I think it's interesting that the new BA codex has all this slot-less shenanigans removed entirely! Every unit takes up a slot and there is no option for anything to be slot-less.

Even Lemartes, command squads and techmarines are all slotted.

Maybe a desire by GW to simplify the unit selection and put all the complexity into Formations/Detachments?

I think it's important to note that the unit is listed in the elites section. I think if they only intended to be taken as slotless they would be listed in the HQ section - this has been my experience with slotless entries.

blaktoof wrote:
Anyone claiming the can be taken as a slotted unit is making up rules that are not there.

There is no permission to take them slotted in their entry.

The listing that you can include them in your army if you take X is a rule, a specific rule in a codex

The rule thY the are spotless is a rule, a specific rule in their codex

There is no optional listed or stated, and as per the core rules in the rulebook that is how they have to be included in your army, as per the rules in their unit entry which gives the restriction of how they can be included in your army, and no rules listing it as optional.

Anyone claiming it is optional is being as silly as claiming relics are not unique because it says you can include one of each per army, then ignoring the rule as written and saying models are able to take relics so that is optional.

I'm curious to know how you would propose taking a Wolf Lord as a slotted HQ choice. There is no specific permission in the Wolf Lord entry to do so. By your own logic, it's impossible to take any Space Wolf units for this reason.

This is a PERMISSIVE rule set. It tells us what we CAN do. In the absence of another written rule telling us we CAN'T do that thing, we can still do it.

The core rule book tells us we CAN take an Elites choice to fill an Elites slot on a Detachment's Force Org Chart. This selection obviously fills a slot.
The codex tells us we CAN take a Lone Wolf on the criteria that we include one of certain other selections. This selection does not fill a slot.

There are two permissions. The first doesn't invalidate the second. The second doesn't invalidate the first. There is no wording in the codex permission restricting the core rule book permission.

The rule blaktoof keeps citing simply tells us that when we take a slotless entry along with another entry that they must be in the same detachment. If we use the core rule book permission, we aren't taking a slotless entry, so blaktoof's rule doesn't apply.

Now, I'm going to ask this. Can you try to be open minded? Can you try to forget how things were done in the past? Can you quit citing out of date codexes and current publications written for old editions? "Because it's how things have always been done" is the worst possible answer to give when someone asks why.

I'm not debating intent. I'm not debating tradition. I'm debating what is actually written on the page. What is written on the page is a pair of permissions that don't contradict each other. If you feel otherwise, please cite a rule specifically restricting the permission granted in the core rulebook to take Elites units to fill Elites slots.

And to the person who tried to school me on what a period on the end of a sentence means... two points. Point one. Not using grammar in a rules debate is actually one of the tenants of this forum. Point two. Full stops are allowed, but taking a larger rule out of context is ok? Ignoring the second sentence modifying the selection to be a slotless selection is ok? Of course taking things out of context is not ok.

I am being open minded, but you are being closed minded about the issue.

the icon for elites does not mean it can be taken as an elites choice, it means it has the battlefield role.

there is general permission to take units as selections based on their battlefield role.

however in the unit entry itself it says :

You can take one Lone Wolf for each Troops choice or unit of Wolf Guard or Wolf Guard Terminators in your army. This selection does not use up a Force Organisation slot.

nothing about that rule is optional other than whether or not you want to include a lone wolf in your army.

it is not listed under options, so it is not optional.

Can you show any RAW that says this is optional?

otherwise the general permission to put a unit in a slot based on its battlefield rule is:

1- restricted because the unit entry tells you so
2- restricted becaues the rules state so in the core rulebook- ie if a unit

Occasionally a unit’s Army List Entry will state that the unit it describes does not take up a slot on a Force Organisation Chart.

lone wolf states this verbatim, there is no option about it.

These units can be included in any Detachment, even if all the slots of the appropriate Battlefield Role are filled with other units or if the Detachment had no slot for their Battlefield Role, but they must still adhere to any restrictions detailed on the Detachment and its own Army List Entry.

so if the unit entry states it can be taken slotless, Lone Wolf does without question, then you can include it in a detachment even if all the slots of the appropriate battlefield role are filled...they MUST adhere to restriction detailed on the detachment, and its own army list entry.

Its own army list entry states it is a slotless selection.

so incase you needed RAW to tell you that the RAW in the army list entry have to be followed, the core rule in the rulebook states it must be followed specifically as well.

If you are not taking a unit slotless that states anywhere in its army list entry that it can be included in an army and does not take up a force organization slot you have broken a rule you must follow in the core rules.

further you have not followed a rule in the unit entry.

now as we are told in the rulebook, codex trumps rulebook, and advanced trumps basic so at this point you need a specific entry in the unit entry that says you have an option to take it as a slotted unit.

further-

If the Army List Entry states that it can be included in an army that includes another specified unit, and that it does not take up a Force Organisation slot, it must join the same Detachment as that specified unit.

so if the army list entry states it can be included in an army that includes another specified unit, and it does not take up a force organisation slot, it must join the same detachment as specified unit.

looking back to the top we see this is true for lone wolves, so guess what you MUST put it in the same detachment as a troop/wolfguard/wolfguard unit if its entry states that. Does it entry state that? Yes.



There isn't one, this isn't an issue of being open or closed minded this is simple bad rules lawyering and wishing on the part of some people to squeeze the best units into a FOC by filling out the min required areas with minimal things, but it is not allowed at all by the RAW in the rulebook, or the codex.


unless you can find somewhere in the entry for lone wolf that says you have the option to take it as a slotted elites choice, the Rules as written without question state that you must take the lone wolf as a slotless entry with the required because because its army list entry states those things within it.

So the only questions you have to answer to even begin an argument that they can be taken slotted:
1- Does the army list entry state anywhere that they can be included in an army if you take x, and that they do not take up a force organization slot?
If it does state it anywhere in the entry, then there are two things you MUST do. Did you do them?
2- Does the army list entry specifically state the above is optional or give an option to take them as a slotted selection in an army?

So if you take a lone wolf as an elite slotted entry you have broken 2 things you must do without any permission to ignore the things you must do.

So you better have specific permission somewhere to break those rules.

blaktoof wrote:
I am being open minded, but you are being closed minded about the issue.

the icon for elites does not mean it can be taken as an elites choice, it means it has the battlefield role.

there is general permission to take units as selections based on their battlefield role.

Your argument is internally inconsistent.

Which is it?

Does the Elites icon (which indicates Battlefield Role) mean it can be taken as an Elites choice or not? If not, how do we fill an Elites slot? I'm genuinely curious as to how you think this works.

By your own admission, there is a general permission to take a Lone Wolf to fill an Elites slot as it has the Elites Battlefield Role. Can you cite anything in the Lone Wolf rule that specifically and unambiguously restricts this general permission? The Lone Wolf rule appears to grant an additional permission allowing me to take additional Lone Wolves if I meet additional criteria. I can not find any wording specifically restricing the general permission. In other words, does the Lone Wolf rule tell me explicitly that I can't take a Lone Wolf to fill an Elites slot as per normal based on its Battlefield Role?

by my own admission normally you have general permission to take a unit with the role elites as a slotted elite choice.

by my post above which I am not sure if you read, or the rules in the rulebook regarding the matter-

that general permission does not matter because you are told you must do 2 things if the unit states anywhere in its entry that it can be included in an army if you take x. The unit does not take up a slot on the force organization chart.

did you do those two musts?

is there an option in the unit entry that allows you to ignore the two things you must do according to the rulebook?

I don't think your above post is even serious at this point.

because it has been quoted to you from the rulebook, and the lone wolf entry that you cannot do it otherwise because you are restricted by having to complete 2 musts.

the first- if the unit entry states anywhere it is slotless, you must adhere to this and take it slotless according to the rulebook. did you do that?

the second- if the unit entry states anywhere it can be taken in an army if you include x, then you must do that. Did you do that?

by completing the two things in the unit entry which are not listed as optional rules, and you are told you must complete in the rulebook, you are unable to take a lone wolf as a slotless entry by the RAW quoted to you many times now in both the rulebook and the unit entry.

do you have a specific permission to not do the two things you must do according to the rulebook?

Still mistaking additional permission for a restriction, despite rules stating nothing of the sort.

You have general permission to take it slotted. Show where this is removed. Actual words this time.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Still mistaking additional permission for a restriction, despite rules stating nothing of the sort.

You have general permission to take it slotted. Show where this is removed. Actual words this time.

if you actually were able to read, or bothered to, you would see that was done with actual rules quotes.

so unless you actually have anything to add, why are you posting?

blaktoof wrote:
by my own admission normally you have general permission to take a unit with the role elites as a slotted elite choice.

by my post above which I am not sure if you read, or the rules in the rulebook regarding the matter-

that general permission does not matter because you are told you must do 2 things if the unit states anywhere in its entry that it can be included in an army if you take x. The unit does not take up a slot on the force organization chart.

did you do those two musts?

is there an option in the unit entry that allows you to ignore the two things you must do according to the rulebook?

I don't think your above post is even serious at this point.

because it has been quoted to you from the rulebook, and the lone wolf entry that you cannot do it otherwise because you are restricted by having to complete 2 musts.

the first- if the unit entry states anywhere it is slotless, you must adhere to this and take it slotless according to the rulebook. did you do that?

the second- if the unit entry states anywhere it can be taken in an army if you include x, then you must do that. Did you do that?

by completing the two things in the unit entry which are not listed as optional rules, and you are told you must complete in the rulebook, you are unable to take a lone wolf as a slotless entry by the RAW quoted to you many times now in both the rulebook and the unit entry.

do you have a specific permission to not do the two things you must do according to the rulebook?

I can't find a rule that says "if a unit entry says it can be taken slotless, it must be taken slotless." Can you cite the section and page number for that? If you can psot a rule saying that, you win the jackpot. However, I think you're making up rules again. The rule you keep posting says I must take the selection in the same Detachment. I'm not trying to take anything in a different Detachment. You need to find me a rule explicitly saying that if I'm told I can take a unit slotless that I lose the general permission to take the unit slotted and can ONLY take the unit slotless.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

blaktoof wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Still mistaking additional permission for a restriction, despite rules stating nothing of the sort.

You have general permission to take it slotted. Show where this is removed. Actual words this time.

if you actually were able to read, or bothered to, you would see that was done with actual rules quotes.

so unless you actually have anything to add, why are you posting?

Nos is most certainly allowed to contribute.

He's pointing out that you have yet to post an actual restriction. The rule you keep quoting doesn't have any wording restricting the normal BRB method.

 Kriswall wrote:

blaktoof wrote:
by my own admission normally you have general permission to take a unit with the role elites as a slotted elite choice.

by my post above which I am not sure if you read, or the rules in the rulebook regarding the matter-

that general permission does not matter because you are told you must do 2 things if the unit states anywhere in its entry that it can be included in an army if you take x. The unit does not take up a slot on the force organization chart.

did you do those two musts?

is there an option in the unit entry that allows you to ignore the two things you must do according to the rulebook?

I don't think your above post is even serious at this point.

because it has been quoted to you from the rulebook, and the lone wolf entry that you cannot do it otherwise because you are restricted by having to complete 2 musts.

the first- if the unit entry states anywhere it is slotless, you must adhere to this and take it slotless according to the rulebook. did you do that?

the second- if the unit entry states anywhere it can be taken in an army if you include x, then you must do that. Did you do that?

by completing the two things in the unit entry which are not listed as optional rules, and you are told you must complete in the rulebook, you are unable to take a lone wolf as a slotless entry by the RAW quoted to you many times now in both the rulebook and the unit entry.

do you have a specific permission to not do the two things you must do according to the rulebook?

I can't find a rule that says "if a unit entry says it can be taken slotless, it must be taken slotless." Can you cite the section and page number for that? If you can psot a rule saying that, you win the jackpot. However, I think you're making up rules again. The rule you keep posting says I must take the selection in the same Detachment. I'm not trying to take anything in a different Detachment. You need to find me a rule explicitly saying that if I'm told I can take a unit slotless that I lose the general permission to take the unit slotted and can ONLY take the unit slotless.

sure thing.

Occasionally a unit’s Army List Entry will state that the unit it describes does not take up a slot on a Force Organisation Chart. These units can be included in any Detachment, even if all the slots of the appropriate Battlefield Role are filled with other units or if the Detachment had no slot for their Battlefield Role, but they must still adhere to any restrictions detailed on the Detachment and its own Army List Entry.

so if the armys list entry states it does not take up a slot on the force org chart you can include it in your detachment but you must adhere to the detachment and its own army list entry restrictions.

You can take one Lone Wolf for each Troops choice or unit of Wolf Guard or Wolf Guard Terminators in your army. This selection does not use up a Force Organisation slot.

the above is not listed as an optional, nor are you given permission for it to be optional. did you adhere to the restriction above you are told you must adhere to?

 DarthOvious wrote:

 Kerrathyr wrote:

many people wrote:You can take one Lone Wolf for each Troops choice or unit of Wolf Guard or Wolf Guard Terminators in your army. This selection does not use up a Force Organisation slot."

I think there is a little, ignored point in the above sentences.
"This selection".
It does not say "this unit", but selection, and I cannot elaborate but this way:
LWs are Elite slot selections, but they have a secondary selection, if you take troops/WG/WGT: the secondary selection is slotless.

The language used is the same for SM Honour Guard. So you believe that SM players can take an Honour Guard as a HQ slot?

Do Honourguard have the HQ icon on their datasheet making them a HQ selection option? Or are they a separate sub section of the SM Chaptermaster?

My question is, if it is not intended to be able to be taken as an elites choice. Why is it listed in elites? Other units of this type that have mandatory units conditional for their use are usually listed in the HQ section. Can you show another example of a conditionally allowed unit that is not listed in the HQ section of a legit codex - none of the books I have have units like these.

 Xenomancers wrote:
My question is, if it is not intended to be able to be taken as an elites choice. Why is it listed in elites? Other units of this type that have mandatory units conditional for their use are usually listed in the HQ section. Can you show another example of a conditionally allowed unit that is not listed in the HQ section of a legit codex - none of the books I have have units like these.

The old GK codex, for one.

 Xenomancers wrote:
My question is, if it is not intended to be able to be taken as an elites choice. Why is it listed in elites? Other units of this type that have mandatory units conditional for their use are usually listed in the HQ section. Can you show another example of a conditionally allowed unit that is not listed in the HQ section of a legit codex - none of the books I have have units like these.

there are no longer sections of a codex, it has the battlefield role of elites and is listed with other models that have the battlefield role of elites. Having the battlefield role does not mean itself is slotted.

for example Tyrannocyte.

Transport Spore: A
Tyrannocyte does not
use up a slot on the Force
Organisation Chart

it is listed as the role HS, but nowhere does it have the option to be taken as a unit that uses up a slot on the force org chart.

blaktoof wrote:

 Kriswall wrote:

blaktoof wrote:
by my own admission normally you have general permission to take a unit with the role elites as a slotted elite choice.

by my post above which I am not sure if you read, or the rules in the rulebook regarding the matter-

that general permission does not matter because you are told you must do 2 things if the unit states anywhere in its entry that it can be included in an army if you take x. The unit does not take up a slot on the force organization chart.

did you do those two musts?

is there an option in the unit entry that allows you to ignore the two things you must do according to the rulebook?

I don't think your above post is even serious at this point.

because it has been quoted to you from the rulebook, and the lone wolf entry that you cannot do it otherwise because you are restricted by having to complete 2 musts.

the first- if the unit entry states anywhere it is slotless, you must adhere to this and take it slotless according to the rulebook. did you do that?

the second- if the unit entry states anywhere it can be taken in an army if you include x, then you must do that. Did you do that?

by completing the two things in the unit entry which are not listed as optional rules, and you are told you must complete in the rulebook, you are unable to take a lone wolf as a slotless entry by the RAW quoted to you many times now in both the rulebook and the unit entry.

do you have a specific permission to not do the two things you must do according to the rulebook?

I can't find a rule that says "if a unit entry says it can be taken slotless, it must be taken slotless." Can you cite the section and page number for that? If you can psot a rule saying that, you win the jackpot. However, I think you're making up rules again. The rule you keep posting says I must take the selection in the same Detachment. I'm not trying to take anything in a different Detachment. You need to find me a rule explicitly saying that if I'm told I can take a unit slotless that I lose the general permission to take the unit slotted and can ONLY take the unit slotless.

sure thing.

Occasionally a unit’s Army List Entry will state that the unit it describes does not take up a slot on a Force Organisation Chart. These units can be included in any Detachment, even if all the slots of the appropriate Battlefield Role are filled with other units or if the Detachment had no slot for their Battlefield Role, but they must still adhere to any restrictions detailed on the Detachment and its own Army List Entry.

so if the armys list entry states it does not take up a slot on the force org chart you can include it in your detachment but you must adhere to the detachment and its own army list entry restrictions.

You can take one Lone Wolf for each Troops choice or unit of Wolf Guard or Wolf Guard Terminators in your army. This selection does not use up a Force Organisation slot.

the above is not listed as an optional, nor are you given permission for it to be optional. did you adhere to the restriction above you are told you must adhere to?

You can take one Lone Wolf for each Troops choice or unit of Wolf Guard or Wolf Guard Terminators in your army. This selection does not use up a Force Organisation slot.

I don't think you know what a restriction is. Can you highlight the specific wording in the above rule that restricts the permission to take the Lone Wolf to fill an Elites slot based on its Battlefield Role?

This selection does not use up a Force Organisation slot.

you are told specifically you must adhere to this in the core rulebook.

how are you adhering to that rule in its entry if you are taking it as a slotted selection?

Is there permission somewhere to specifically not do what you are told you must do in this specific instance?

Are you specifically told the above is optional? Because you are told you must adhere to it.

That is a restriction, regardless it is also the RAW that you must adhere to.

"You can take one Lone Wolf for each Troops choice or unit of Wolf Guard or Wolf Guard Terminators in your army. This selection does not use up a Force Organisation slot."

I don't think you know what a restriction is. Can you highlight the specific wording in the above rule that restricts the permission to take the Lone Wolf to fill an Elites slot based on its Battlefield Role? Just highlight the specific restriction. You say it's there. Humor me.

Telling me I can do A and then telling me I can do B at a later date doesn't necessarily mean I can't do both. If you think I can't do both, just highlight the wording restricting the first option (selecting a Unit with the Elites Battlefield Role to fill an Elites slot on a Detachment's Force Org Chart). You say it's there, so highlighting the wording should be no problem.

its not an issue of being told you can do A or B.

its an issue that you are told you must do x.

If you take a lone wolf (the only optional part)

the selection does not use up a force organization slot.

you are told specifically in the rulebook you must adhere to this rule if it is stated in the unit entry.

did you adhere to it?

So show me the rule that if a unit says it CAN be taken slotless it MUST be taken slotless. You haven't yet.

so again..

from the rulebook:

Occasionally a unit’s Army List Entry will state that the unit it describes does not take up a slot on a Force Organisation Chart. These units can be included in any Detachment, even if all the slots of the appropriate Battlefield Role are filled with other units or if the Detachment had no slot for their Battlefield Role, but they must still adhere to any restrictions detailed on the Detachment and its own Army List Entry.

answer the following:

1- Does the army list entry for Lone Wolf state anywhere that it does not take up a force organization slot?
2- If telling you how it must be taken a certain way, is that a restriction or not?
3- What underlined thing must you do ?
4- Even if you think 2. is not a restriction are you following 3. from above which you must do if you take a Lone Wolf as a selection that does not use up a force organization slot?

its entry states:

the selection does not use up a force organization slot.

regardless if you feel that's a restriction, you are told you must adhere to it.

Have you adhered to it and done what you must do if you take it as a slotted selection?

The Unit Entry says I can include Lone Wolves under certain conditions. THESE selections don't take up slots and thus would follow the rule you posted.

You need to also cite a restriction saying I CAN'T include Lone Wolves under other condition (the condition of having the Elites Battlefield Role). THSES selection do take up slots and thus don't follow the rules you posted as the rules you posted don't apply to selections that take up slots.

Two different selection, man.

Find me a rule that says "If it says I can take a unit as slotless, I MUST." It's simply not there.

You whole argument is contingent upon being told "you can take via method B" also means "you can no longer take via method A". The wording simply isn't there.

theres no actual rule that says you can take lone wolves slotted.
there is a rule saying:

You can take one Lone Wolf for each Troops choice or unit of Wolf Guard or Wolf Guard Terminators in your army. This selection does not use up a Force Organisation slot.

which says you can take one lone wolf if you take x.

btw you keep asking for a restriction but are unwilling to accept the above is the restriction, with no option given for another way to take them.

the only optional part in that rule is that you can take a lone wolf, you are not required to.

the rest is not listed as optional in the rule presented above, and according to the rulebook you -must- do both of them.

furhter even if you were correct, your not, the rulebook says that if the entry states they do not take up a slot in for the force organization chart. It states that, the rulebook does not say if you take them as a unit that doesn't take up a slot, just if the entry states it.

does the entry state it?

because forth the 5th time, that is the rule that plainly states you must take it slotless.

"You can take one Lone Wolf for each Troops choice or unit of Wolf Guard or Wolf Guard Terminators in your army. This selection does not use up a Force Organisation slot."

It seems to me that "This selection" is referring to the method presented in the previous sentence. So choosing to take the unit in an Elites slot is a different selection from that selection. Thus that is not a restriction on selecting the unit as a normal Elites choice.

Besides... if the unit must always be taken as slotless then why give it a battlefield role at all? Why is it listed as an Elites choice?

Zimko wrote:
"You can take one Lone Wolf for each Troops choice or unit of Wolf Guard or Wolf Guard Terminators in your army. This selection does not use up a Force Organisation slot."

It seems to me that "This selection" is referring to the method presented in the previous sentence. So choosing to take the unit in an Elites slot is a different selection from that selection. Thus that is not a restriction on selecting the unit as a normal Elites choice.

Besides... if the unit must always be taken as slotless then why give it a battlefield role at all? Why is it listed as an Elites choice?

If there was some wording that said it was an option or optional then you would have a point, otherwise the only way to select a lone wolf is what is stated. There is no option given to take a lone wolf as a different selection in its unit entry and the core rules state you must follow those rules which state that not only is this unit slotless but if you include it in your army it must be in the same detachment as the required unit i.e. troop, wolfguard or wolfguard terminators.

regarding the slotless, many missions have special rules regarding battlefield role which is independent of the unit being slotted or slotless, or award bonus VPs for killing certain units with certain battlefield roles, regardless of if they are slotted or not.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
For fun lets look at another unit.

Arjac Rockfist.

same codex even, also an elite role.

If Arjac Rockfist is included in a Detachment that includes at least one unit of either Wolf Guard or Wolf Guard Terminators, he does not take up a slot on the Force Organisation Chart.

here is an excellent example of a unit that can be included slotless, but is given the option to not be slotless.

He does not take up a slot on the force organization chart -if- he is included in a detachment that has at least one unit of either wolf guard or wolf guard terminators.

Seems like an option.

firstly its listed as a special rule, under "The Anvil of Fenris" For lone wolves it is not listed as a special rule, its part of the rules for their unit composition.

Secondly we are told that he does not take up a slot on the force organization chart. We are told in the cure rulebook we must adhere to the rule in his unit entry if it states this. looking at his unit entry we are told he does not take up a slot in the force organization chart if he is in a detachment with wolfguard or wolfguard terminators.

so we look at our army;

Is he in an detachment that includes wolfguard or wolfguard terminators?

yes- he is slotless
no- he is not slotless

lets look again at the lone wolf entry, under unit composition it states 1 lone wolf then says:

You can take one Lone Wolf for each Troops choice or unit of Wolf Guard or Wolf Guard Terminators in your army. This selection does not use up a Force Organisation slot.

nothing about that is optional other than you can take a lone wolf in your army. The rest are things you must adhere to.

no option given for a way for them to not be slotless, just simply being told the selection is slotless.

blaktoof wrote:

You can take one Lone Wolf for each Troops choice or unit of Wolf Guard or Wolf Guard Terminators in your army. This selection does not use up a Force Organisation slot.

nothing about that is optional other than you can take a lone wolf in your army. The rest are things you must adhere to.

no option given for a way for them to not be slotless, just simply being told the selection is slotless.

The hiccup with this is that when a rule says 'You can', that means it is optional. In order for it to be mandatory it must have 'You must'. By having 'You can' instead of 'You must', it is giving permission to do something on top of whatever other permissions you already have. One of those other permissions is the BRB's permission of selecting units based on their battlefield role to fill a slot in a detachment.

Since the rule doesn't say 'You must' or anything restricting you from applying the BRB's permission to select the unit, then you still have the option to use the BRB's method.

yes, its optional for you to take a lone wolf, you are not required.

it is mandatory because the rulebook states you must do it, and the entry gives no exception or option.

ignored for trolling.

blaktoof wrote:
yes, its optional for you to take a lone wolf, you are not required.

it is mandatory because the rulebook states you must do it, and the entry gives no exception or option.

Most of the codex entries have no instructions for selecting that unit. The BRB provides instructions for selecting units. Codex entries like this one provide an additional method of selecting that unit, and unless it includes a restriction, you can still use the BRB's method.

blaktoof wrote:


ignored for trolling.

Not even close to trolling.

Also, can we stick to the debate and avoid personal attacks? There is no reason to call someone a troll here.

The question of whether or not the Lone Wolf rule restricts the permission in the BRB or not is a valid one.

There appears to be an implied restriction, but without explicit wording, the restriction can't stick. It is probably GW's intent that Lone Wolves can't be taken as slotted, but their intentions mean nothing without clearly written rules or an Errata/FAQ explaining what they meant. And that's assuming I'm right about the intention.

From a strictly rules as written perspective, there doesn't appear to be an explicit restriction preventing a player from using a Lone Wolf to fill an Elites slot.