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Well, the current IoM is vastly different from the old IoM - Emprah is now ironically worshipped as a god (Lorgar got the last laugh there), so it would be interesting to have an IoM vs. returned Primarchs scenario.

 morganfreeman wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:

Because, it wouldn't matter who you are, if you attack the Throneworld, you are a traitor.

The combined forces of the Space marines marched on (and attacked) Holy Terra to end the Reign of Blood / Age of Apostacy(sp). The Imperial Fists were not there defending they were one of those attacking.

I'm quite certain that the same thing was done -again- when there was an unacceptable amount of inactivity due to a few gaps in the Highlords of Terra, and the potential people to fill those gaps arguing, bickering, and politicing all over the place to get the seat they wanted. Space Marines (en mass) showed up, locked the Highlords (and potential Highlords) in a room with a few chapter masters. A day or so went by, not everyone came back out, and the issue was settled.

Suffice it to say that attacking Terra nor even pushing about the Highlords themselves does not automatically make you a traitor. If the Dark Angels started to carpet bomb the world and expressed interest in dethoning the Emperor? Absolutely would plenty of other chapters turn against them. But if the Lion merely wanted to wrest control away from the corrupt and impotent Highlords of Terra? There's a very good chance he'd have many a non-angels chapter backing him, or at least not interfering.

This.

Also, do you guys know ANYTHING about the Lion? He is undisputedly the coldest, most calculating, and most intelligent of all of the Primarchs. He pays for this with his social skills, but still. He wouldn't just rush headlong into an attack on Terra. Like I've said in the dead Calgar thread, if any Chapter Master, Primarch, ANYBODY were to stage a full-scale rebellion against the Imperium and they were an influential person with great intelligence, respect and power, then they would bide their time - gather allies, determine who would be against him/her, determine who would be with him/her, who needs to be tied up on the other side of the galaxy, who needs to be assassinated, etc. If you wish to see an example of a Primarch biding his time and then launching a massive schism, look at the Horus Heresy. The Lion rebelling would be a second Heresy, only without Chaos fueling it. He would gather Guard allies, Inquisition allies, Mechanicus allies, Space Marine allies, etc. etc.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And during that rebellion, Chaos would launch the 13th Black Crusade and conquer half the IoM.

 dusara217 wrote:

 morganfreeman wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:

Because, it wouldn't matter who you are, if you attack the Throneworld, you are a traitor.

The combined forces of the Space marines marched on (and attacked) Holy Terra to end the Reign of Blood / Age of Apostacy(sp). The Imperial Fists were not there defending they were one of those attacking.

I'm quite certain that the same thing was done -again- when there was an unacceptable amount of inactivity due to a few gaps in the Highlords of Terra, and the potential people to fill those gaps arguing, bickering, and politicing all over the place to get the seat they wanted. Space Marines (en mass) showed up, locked the Highlords (and potential Highlords) in a room with a few chapter masters. A day or so went by, not everyone came back out, and the issue was settled.

Suffice it to say that attacking Terra nor even pushing about the Highlords themselves does not automatically make you a traitor. If the Dark Angels started to carpet bomb the world and expressed interest in dethoning the Emperor? Absolutely would plenty of other chapters turn against them. But if the Lion merely wanted to wrest control away from the corrupt and impotent Highlords of Terra? There's a very good chance he'd have many a non-angels chapter backing him, or at least not interfering.

This.

Also, do you guys know ANYTHING about the Lion? He is undisputedly the coldest, most calculating, and most intelligent of all of the Primarchs. He pays for this with his social skills, but still. He wouldn't just rush headlong into an attack on Terra. Like I've said in the dead Calgar thread, if any Chapter Master, Primarch, ANYBODY were to stage a full-scale rebellion against the Imperium and they were an influential person with great intelligence, respect and power, then they would bide their time - gather allies, determine who would be against him/her, determine who would be with him/her, who needs to be tied up on the other side of the galaxy, who needs to be assassinated, etc. If you wish to see an example of a Primarch biding his time and then launching a massive schism, look at the Horus Heresy. The Lion rebelling would be a second Heresy, only without Chaos fueling it. He would gather Guard allies, Inquisition allies, Mechanicus allies, Space Marine allies, etc. etc.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And during that rebellion, Chaos would launch the 13th Black Crusade and conquer half the IoM.

This. The Lion wouldn't rush face first into a losing fight. Also, I thought the 13th Crusade already happened? Or has it been retconned?

It was retconned.

 dusara217 wrote:
It was retconned.

What about the other 12 that failed due to the armless wonder?

 morganfreeman wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:

Because, it wouldn't matter who you are, if you attack the Throneworld, you are a traitor.

The combined forces of the Space marines marched on (and attacked) Holy Terra to end the Reign of Blood / Age of Apostacy(sp). The Imperial Fists were not there defending they were one of those attacking.

I'm quite certain that the same thing was done -again- when there was an unacceptable amount of inactivity due to a few gaps in the Highlords of Terra, and the potential people to fill those gaps arguing, bickering, and politicing all over the place to get the seat they wanted. Space Marines (en mass) showed up, locked the Highlords (and potential Highlords) in a room with a few chapter masters. A day or so went by, not everyone came back out, and the issue was settled.

Suffice it to say that attacking Terra nor even pushing about the Highlords themselves does not automatically make you a traitor. If the Dark Angels started to carpet bomb the world and expressed interest in dethoning the Emperor? Absolutely would plenty of other chapters turn against them. But if the Lion merely wanted to wrest control away from the corrupt and impotent Highlords of Terra? There's a very good chance he'd have many a non-angels chapter backing him, or at least not interfering.

Great post!

Also, the Emperor can still communicate telepathically so the Lion would probably want to meet him and discuss the state of the Imperium. I don't think the High Lords would (or could) deny him an audience. This is one of the Emperor's sons we're talking about!

On another note, I've been thinking maybe the Lion would want the Dark Angels to move on from the whole hunting the Fallen thing. 10,000 years is a long time. He might just let the cat out of the bag and refocus their priorities. Some of the Fallen might even return and ask for absolution since that's what many of them seem to be waiting for. And even if the High Lords reacted badly to the truth, the Dark Angels couldn't really be declared tratiors anymore. Not with a living Primarch leading them.

He will finally reveal that he was a traitor and he and the inner circle will pledge fully to the chaos gods, dragging many chapters with them. Cypher will deliver the sword to Terra and a new crusade will be launched against The Unforgivable!








Not really, just poking fun at DA players. It's a hobby of mine, as my best friend plays them!

 Inkubas wrote:
When the Lion wakes he would execute Luthor first and rebuild his legion second. Then there would be a HUGE problem with his existence.
The high lords exist because the primarchs are out of the picture but if any primarch returns then there would be a power struggle. The primarchs are the 'sons' of the Emperor and thus would be the closest thing to living gods that the Imperium has. They would be the most fit to lead it.
The Lion existing would cause problems with the High Lords and the Inquisition as he would refute the divinity of the Emperor. This would label him as a fake or fraud and would probably lead to open war. The Dark Angel legion would be hard pressed on all sides it would lead to an interesting story arch where the Legion is excommunicated from the Imperium and may even help overthrow the corrupt Imperium.

Additional twist would be if Robute wakes up to lead the forces for the High Lords. Trying to keep his father's dream of a united (even if failing empire) over more civil war. After all, the road to hell is paved in good intentions.

I'm not sure there WOULD be a power struggle. the primarchs didn't all INSTANTLY abandon the IoM following the Heresy they struck around for a good while. but at the same time, they let the high lords run the show. the only one involved in the active governance of the IoM, the only one who was proably intreasted, was Gulliman. oddly I think Gulliman would be the greatest threat to the high lords of the loyalist primarchs. most of the others would content themselves with the busniess of war, etc. Gulliman would come back and proably basicly wanna tinker with the structure of the IoM, and could be seen as a threat by the other high lords. However, each of the Primarchs are intelligent charismatic people, they'd likely be able to get a majority of the high lords to support them

 Inkubas wrote:
I don't think that the DA legion would be able to take out the IoM even with the Lion leading them. Plus there are a TON of defenses in place in the Sector Solar that would turn the Rock into space dust.

Here are all the current chapters from Dark Angels:
Angels of Absolution
Angels of Redemption
Angels of Vengeance
Angels of Vigilance
Angels of Wrath
Consecrators
Disciples of Caliban
Guardians of the Covenant
Lions Sable
Persecutors of Darkness

Including the Dark Angels you're working with 11 (known) chapters. So you've have about 11,000 but we all know that they don't adhere to the codex as stringently as some chapters so let's generally buff up those numbers to 14,000.

So 14,000 dark angels lead by the Lion against Mars (Titans,Skirtari legions), The High lords, and the Inquisition, the Imperial Guard, and the Imperial Navy. Assuming that the rock is attacking the Sol system you're looking at MASSIVE fortifications. This is not including any additional space marine chapters like the Minotaur, Red Hunters, and Grey Knights that may side with the IoM over the lion.

There's likely 50,000 Dark Angels. Not 15,000.

The Lion would probably want to have all current tactical data brought to his attention so that he could assess and reunite his Legion. It would be a good thing if the First Legion were the one to bring some form of unity back to the Imperium. Ironic even.

He may also want to "see" his Father the Emperor. Maybe the Emperor can communicate in his current state, maybe he can't. He may want to take the role of Warmaster and tackle the most dire wars ones but it really depends on how his body is holding up after 10k years... is he functionally immortal? (I assume so as his Astartes are) Is he sleeping in a stasis field? Or is he only ever mentioned as sleeping?

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Inkubas wrote:
I don't think that the DA legion would be able to take out the IoM even with the Lion leading them. Plus there are a TON of defenses in place in the Sector Solar that would turn the Rock into space dust.

Here are all the current chapters from Dark Angels:
Angels of Absolution
Angels of Redemption
Angels of Vengeance
Angels of Vigilance
Angels of Wrath
Consecrators
Disciples of Caliban
Guardians of the Covenant
Lions Sable
Persecutors of Darkness

Including the Dark Angels you're working with 11 (known) chapters. So you've have about 11,000 but we all know that they don't adhere to the codex as stringently as some chapters so let's generally buff up those numbers to 14,000.

So 14,000 dark angels lead by the Lion against Mars (Titans,Skirtari legions), The High lords, and the Inquisition, the Imperial Guard, and the Imperial Navy. Assuming that the rock is attacking the Sol system you're looking at MASSIVE fortifications. This is not including any additional space marine chapters like the Minotaur, Red Hunters, and Grey Knights that may side with the IoM over the lion.

There's likely 50,000 Dark Angels. Not 15,000.

where is your 50, 000 number from?

 Inkubas wrote:
I don't think that the DA legion would be able to take out the IoM even with the Lion leading them. Plus there are a TON of defenses in place in the Sector Solar that would turn the Rock into space dust.

Here are all the current chapters from Dark Angels:
Angels of Absolution
Angels of Redemption
Angels of Vengeance
Angels of Vigilance
Angels of Wrath
Consecrators
Disciples of Caliban
Guardians of the Covenant
Lions Sable
Persecutors of Darkness

Including the Dark Angels you're working with 11 (known) chapters. So you've have about 11,000 but we all know that they don't adhere to the codex as stringently as some chapters so let's generally buff up those numbers to 14,000.

So 14,000 dark angels lead by the Lion against Mars (Titans,Skirtari legions), The High lords, and the Inquisition, the Imperial Guard, and the Imperial Navy. Assuming that the rock is attacking the Sol system you're looking at MASSIVE fortifications. This is not including any additional space marine chapters like the Minotaur, Red Hunters, and Grey Knights that may side with the IoM over the lion.

That does not take into account that a large part, if not the majority of the Imperium would side with the Primarch. He is the son of their god after all, so that makes him Space Jesus. If Jesus were to return to Earth, most if not all Christians would follow him, even if he went against the Church and government. In 40k it would likely not be much different.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Inkubas wrote:
I don't think that the DA legion would be able to take out the IoM even with the Lion leading them. Plus there are a TON of defenses in place in the Sector Solar that would turn the Rock into space dust.

Here are all the current chapters from Dark Angels:
Angels of Absolution
Angels of Redemption
Angels of Vengeance
Angels of Vigilance
Angels of Wrath
Consecrators
Disciples of Caliban
Guardians of the Covenant
Lions Sable
Persecutors of Darkness

Including the Dark Angels you're working with 11 (known) chapters. So you've have about 11,000 but we all know that they don't adhere to the codex as stringently as some chapters so let's generally buff up those numbers to 14,000.

So 14,000 dark angels lead by the Lion against Mars (Titans,Skirtari legions), The High lords, and the Inquisition, the Imperial Guard, and the Imperial Navy. Assuming that the rock is attacking the Sol system you're looking at MASSIVE fortifications. This is not including any additional space marine chapters like the Minotaur, Red Hunters, and Grey Knights that may side with the IoM over the lion.

That does not take into account that a large part, if not the majority of the Imperium would side with the Primarch. He is the son of their god after all, so that makes him Space Jesus. If Jesus were to return to Earth, most if not all Christians would follow him, even if he went against the Church and government. In 40k it would likely not be much different.

If Jesus had brothers who had gone batnerf insane back in the old days and caused untold destruction, it might be a bit differant. if the Lion went all rebel it'd be REAAAAALLLY easy to cast him as "Horus reborn"

BrianDavion wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Inkubas wrote:
I don't think that the DA legion would be able to take out the IoM even with the Lion leading them. Plus there are a TON of defenses in place in the Sector Solar that would turn the Rock into space dust.

Here are all the current chapters from Dark Angels:
Angels of Absolution
Angels of Redemption
Angels of Vengeance
Angels of Vigilance
Angels of Wrath
Consecrators
Disciples of Caliban
Guardians of the Covenant
Lions Sable
Persecutors of Darkness

Including the Dark Angels you're working with 11 (known) chapters. So you've have about 11,000 but we all know that they don't adhere to the codex as stringently as some chapters so let's generally buff up those numbers to 14,000.

So 14,000 dark angels lead by the Lion against Mars (Titans,Skirtari legions), The High lords, and the Inquisition, the Imperial Guard, and the Imperial Navy. Assuming that the rock is attacking the Sol system you're looking at MASSIVE fortifications. This is not including any additional space marine chapters like the Minotaur, Red Hunters, and Grey Knights that may side with the IoM over the lion.

That does not take into account that a large part, if not the majority of the Imperium would side with the Primarch. He is the son of their god after all, so that makes him Space Jesus. If Jesus were to return to Earth, most if not all Christians would follow him, even if he went against the Church and government. In 40k it would likely not be much different.

If Jesus had brothers who had gone batnerf insane back in the old days and caused untold destruction, it might be a bit differant. if the Lion went all rebel it'd be REAAAAALLLY easy to cast him as "Horus reborn"

I highly doubt the average Imperial citizen knows of the Horus Heresy or fallen Primarchs. It might undermine their fate, plus it would make them aware of Chaos, something which the Inquisition really tries to prevent, even going to the point of executing entire worlds and replacing the population with fresh settlers after Chaos incursions.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Inkubas wrote:
I don't think that the DA legion would be able to take out the IoM even with the Lion leading them. Plus there are a TON of defenses in place in the Sector Solar that would turn the Rock into space dust.

Here are all the current chapters from Dark Angels:
Angels of Absolution
Angels of Redemption
Angels of Vengeance
Angels of Vigilance
Angels of Wrath
Consecrators
Disciples of Caliban
Guardians of the Covenant
Lions Sable
Persecutors of Darkness

Including the Dark Angels you're working with 11 (known) chapters. So you've have about 11,000 but we all know that they don't adhere to the codex as stringently as some chapters so let's generally buff up those numbers to 14,000.

So 14,000 dark angels lead by the Lion against Mars (Titans,Skirtari legions), The High lords, and the Inquisition, the Imperial Guard, and the Imperial Navy. Assuming that the rock is attacking the Sol system you're looking at MASSIVE fortifications. This is not including any additional space marine chapters like the Minotaur, Red Hunters, and Grey Knights that may side with the IoM over the lion.

There's likely 50,000 Dark Angels. Not 15,000.

where is your 50, 000 number from?

As a Legion the Dark Angels numbered around ~100,000. If very generously we assume that something as drastic as 50% of the Dark Angels rebelled on Caliban (more likely something like 30% or 40%) , then there would still be around 50k Dark Angels who would then split up into fifty Chapters. Plus, there's a thousand or so Chapters of Space Marines as of M41, almost all of which are unnamed. There is no reason at all to assume the named chapters represent the majority of a Chapter's foundings. The Dark Angels certainly haven't been reduced in numbers to the level of the Thousand Sons, the singular tiniest Legion during the Great Crusade and Horus Heresy.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Inkubas wrote:
I don't think that the DA legion would be able to take out the IoM even with the Lion leading them. Plus there are a TON of defenses in place in the Sector Solar that would turn the Rock into space dust.

Here are all the current chapters from Dark Angels:
Angels of Absolution
Angels of Redemption
Angels of Vengeance
Angels of Vigilance
Angels of Wrath
Consecrators
Disciples of Caliban
Guardians of the Covenant
Lions Sable
Persecutors of Darkness

Including the Dark Angels you're working with 11 (known) chapters. So you've have about 11,000 but we all know that they don't adhere to the codex as stringently as some chapters so let's generally buff up those numbers to 14,000.

So 14,000 dark angels lead by the Lion against Mars (Titans,Skirtari legions), The High lords, and the Inquisition, the Imperial Guard, and the Imperial Navy. Assuming that the rock is attacking the Sol system you're looking at MASSIVE fortifications. This is not including any additional space marine chapters like the Minotaur, Red Hunters, and Grey Knights that may side with the IoM over the lion.

That does not take into account that a large part, if not the majority of the Imperium would side with the Primarch. He is the son of their god after all, so that makes him Space Jesus. If Jesus were to return to Earth, most if not all Christians would follow him, even if he went against the Church and government. In 40k it would likely not be much different.

If Jesus had brothers who had gone batnerf insane back in the old days and caused untold destruction, it might be a bit differant. if the Lion went all rebel it'd be REAAAAALLLY easy to cast him as "Horus reborn"

I highly doubt the average Imperial citizen knows of the Horus Heresy or fallen Primarchs. It might undermine their fate, plus it would make them aware of Chaos, something which the Inquisition really tries to prevent, even going to the point of executing entire worlds and replacing the population with fresh settlers after Chaos incursions.

Imperial Citizens know who Horus is. They just don't know who he actually was, and that Astartes ever turned traitor to begin with. Horus is known, however he's more like Satan to Medieval peasants then anything else.

The Phalanx and the Rock are pretty much the same strength

End times are already starting

*Tyranids be going cray and something even biggers coming to devour the universe
*Necrons are waking up more and more and are exterminating everything
*Ghazkhull is probably gonna launch a waugh on a scale not seen since Ullanor plus gork and mork may make an appearance
*Tau although fairly useless are swalling imperial worlds cause the imperium doesnt have the resources to deal with it
*Eldar are on the verge on extermination
*Dark eldar i say are on the same boat as eldar

Not only that but one of the most power chaos servants in the galaxy (Abaddon) is leading a force quite literally straigh out of hell (some say twice or three times as more powerful than the forces Horus had)

So with the imperium facing annhaliation i hardly think they would risk a civil war to take out someone they desperately need. Not only that considering the primarchs are myths and legends the direct children of the holy emperor i doubt killing him would go down well with any of the 1 million odd space marines or the millions of citizens of the imperium including the highlords themselves.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also forgot to add but it's suspected that around 10 percent of all chapters are apparently descendents of the first legion so thats around 100,000 marins give or take

 mitch_rifle wrote:
End times are already starting

*Tyranids be going cray and something even biggers coming to devour the universe
*Necrons are waking up more and more and are exterminating everything
*Ghazkhull is probably gonna launch a waugh on a scale not seen since Ullanor plus gork and mork may make an appearance
*Tau although fairly useless are swalling imperial worlds cause the imperium doesnt have the resources to deal with it
*Eldar are on the verge on extermination
*Dark eldar i say are on the same boat as eldar

Not only that but one of the most power chaos servants in the galaxy (Abaddon) is leading a force quite literally straigh out of hell (some say twice or three times as more powerful than the forces Horus had)

So with the imperium facing annhaliation i hardly think they would risk a civil war to take out someone they desperately need. Not only that considering the primarchs are myths and legends the direct children of the holy emperor i doubt killing him would go down well with any of the 1 million odd space marines or the millions of citizens of the imperium including the highlords themselves.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also forgot to add but it's suspected that around 10 percent of all chapters are apparently descendents of the first legion so thats around 100,000 marins give or take

I thought it would be a 'ded giveaway when M42 is called "The Time of Ending"

 mitch_rifle wrote:
End times are already starting

*Tyranids be going cray and something even biggers coming to devour the universe
*Necrons are waking up more and more and are exterminating everything
*Ghazkhull is probably gonna launch a waugh on a scale not seen since Ullanor plus gork and mork may make an appearance
*Tau although fairly useless are swalling imperial worlds cause the imperium doesnt have the resources to deal with it
*Eldar are on the verge on extermination
*Dark eldar i say are on the same boat as eldar

Not only that but one of the most power chaos servants in the galaxy (Abaddon) is leading a force quite literally straigh out of hell (some say twice or three times as more powerful than the forces Horus had)

So with the imperium facing annhaliation i hardly think they would risk a civil war to take out someone they desperately need. Not only that considering the primarchs are myths and legends the direct children of the holy emperor i doubt killing him would go down well with any of the 1 million odd space marines or the millions of citizens of the imperium including the highlords themselves.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also forgot to add but it's suspected that around 10 percent of all chapters are apparently descendents of the first legion so thats around 100,000 marins give or take

I'd be hesitant to call Abaddon one of the most powerful chaos servants

 Wyzilla wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Inkubas wrote:
I don't think that the DA legion would be able to take out the IoM even with the Lion leading them. Plus there are a TON of defenses in place in the Sector Solar that would turn the Rock into space dust.

Here are all the current chapters from Dark Angels:
Angels of Absolution
Angels of Redemption
Angels of Vengeance
Angels of Vigilance
Angels of Wrath
Consecrators
Disciples of Caliban
Guardians of the Covenant
Lions Sable
Persecutors of Darkness

Including the Dark Angels you're working with 11 (known) chapters. So you've have about 11,000 but we all know that they don't adhere to the codex as stringently as some chapters so let's generally buff up those numbers to 14,000.

So 14,000 dark angels lead by the Lion against Mars (Titans,Skirtari legions), The High lords, and the Inquisition, the Imperial Guard, and the Imperial Navy. Assuming that the rock is attacking the Sol system you're looking at MASSIVE fortifications. This is not including any additional space marine chapters like the Minotaur, Red Hunters, and Grey Knights that may side with the IoM over the lion.

There's likely 50,000 Dark Angels. Not 15,000.

where is your 50, 000 number from?

As a Legion the Dark Angels numbered around ~100,000. If very generously we assume that something as drastic as 50% of the Dark Angels rebelled on Caliban (more likely something like 30% or 40%) , then there would still be around 50k Dark Angels who would then split up into fifty Chapters. Plus, there's a thousand or so Chapters of Space Marines as of M41, almost all of which are unnamed. There is no reason at all to assume the named chapters represent the majority of a Chapter's foundings. The Dark Angels certainly haven't been reduced in numbers to the level of the Thousand Sons, the singular tiniest Legion during the Great Crusade and Horus Heresy.

The Dark Angels were of average Legion size, which is 115,000. Now, they were clearly not EXACTLY 115k, but that somewhere around that number. Also, it is directly stated that at the time the Luther started his rebellion, there was only one Chapter there - 1k Marines. Now, realistically, Caliban probably went into recruiting overdrive after rebelling, because if the Legion ever came back then they wanted to be ready to fend them off - even if they failed miserably. After the campaign against the Night Lords, the Dark Angels were heavily drained of men due to fething slaughtering an entire Legion Fleet, so they were probably down to ~75k, then after the Scouring and dealing with Caliban, probably about 70k. Add on to that any newly-formed successor Chapters over the last 10k years, and you've probably got at least twice that number.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 mitch_rifle wrote:
End times are already starting

*Tyranids be going cray and something even biggers coming to devour the universe
*Necrons are waking up more and more and are exterminating everything
*Ghazkhull is probably gonna launch a waugh on a scale not seen since Ullanor plus gork and mork may make an appearance
*Tau although fairly useless are swalling imperial worlds cause the imperium doesnt have the resources to deal with it
*Eldar are on the verge on extermination
*Dark eldar i say are on the same boat as eldar

Not only that but one of the most power chaos servants in the galaxy (Abaddon) is leading a force quite literally straigh out of hell (some say twice or three times as more powerful than the forces Horus had)

So with the imperium facing annhaliation i hardly think they would risk a civil war to take out someone they desperately need. Not only that considering the primarchs are myths and legends the direct children of the holy emperor i doubt killing him would go down well with any of the 1 million odd space marines or the millions of citizens of the imperium including the highlords themselves.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also forgot to add but it's suspected that around 10 percent of all chapters are apparently descendents of the first legion so thats around 100,000 marins give or take

We're basically at the prelude to the end times. We've been at the prelude for like fifteen years, now, though.

this is of course assuming the dark angels sucessors all survived, which is a rather large assumption

Well, now I'm curious as to the actual size of the DA legion post heresy and in the 41M.
I don't think that they would number in the 100,000. After all, chapters die.

Inquisitor Jex wrote:
after 10 000 years, I would say take one hell of a morning piss..

Seconded!

Unfortunately, I see the 41st High Lords of Terra as more self serving bureaucratic and thus, would order the assassination of ANY primarch coming back into the galaxy.

Heck, since the BL writers just couldn't help but bleed their own personal beliefs into 30k (Imperium being about secular/atheism. I tend to filter this out in my version of 30k), that the current Ecclesiarchy would immediately declare a primarch a heretic - once they started blabbing about the Imperial Truth.

I know this is a bit of a tangent, and I apologize for any feathers I'm about to ruffle, but any 'superhuman, demigod' like creature accepting the notion of secularism and atheism as a legitimate way, has failed somewhere fundamentally. If anything, I could only see them as a tool at best.

The matter of ultimate reality is a subject that the Emperor and primarchs should have a solid understanding of - if they truly were superior. Fleshing out the 'Imperial Truth' as a way of life, with no ultimate purpose other than the dominance of humanity over a galaxy, with no eternal answers, is beyond hollow in believability.

The great table will be sundered as the deep magics work upon him and take their course.

The great lion shall arise with the dawn and the White Witch smote asunder


Narnia will be free

Just some information on the Dark Angels and their Foundings

Their Index Astartes Article says

There are no know aberrations in the Dark Angels' gene-seed which makes the reluctance of the High Lords of Terra to utilise it in the founding of new Chapters perplexing. No doubt there are other successor Chapters of the Dark Angels, but their names and when they were founded are unrecorded.

And the Codex.

Although frequently passed over in subsequent Space Marine foundings, the Dark Angels have periodically been requested to give gene-seed to found new Chapters.

Although duty­ bound to run their formations independently, it is strongly suspected by some within the Imperium that the Dark Angels' Successor Chapters show too much deference to the Supreme Grand Master of their originating Chapter. It is, at least partially, this rumour of 'Legion-building' that often persuades the High Lords of Terra to ovedook the Dark Angels' gene-seed when seeking to create further Foundings.

So where they do have foundings and some unnamed, it's likely that they possibly don't have quite the amounts that are being mentioned.

The Angels of Vigilance are only rumoured to be Dark Angel successors and the Lion Sables were lost in the Eye after finding Cypher.

Even if the Dark Angels are frequently passed over, 50K still seems like a solid figure. They were one of the more intact legions at the end of the Heresy so the Second Founding alone could account for 50+ chapters. Out of a million space marines that still seems like a low figure, considering their geneseed is among the purest.

 EngulfedObject wrote:
Even if the Dark Angels are frequently passed over, 50K still seems like a solid figure. They were one of the more intact legions at the end of the Heresy so the Second Founding alone could account for 50+ chapters. Out of a million space marines that still seems like a low figure, considering their geneseed is among the purest.

We don't know how they fare during the heresy. We don't know how much they lost during the Thramas Crusade, en route to Terra or at Fall of Caliban.

But that's why I said 'possibly don't' and not 'don't' as yeah, they could have 50,0000 marines. I just don't think it is likely, as out of the 11 named Chapters one is destroyed and the other might not even be Dark Angels.

 raiden wrote:
When the lion comes back he will, based off his BL books, begin a new crusade to make safe the universe. Probably starting with chaos.

Or alternatively, the theories that he actually sided with chaos - and that the Unforgiven are the good guys comes to pass as he leads an unholy crusade to take back the galaxy.

His first order of business should be to usurp Failbaddon for mucking everything up for 10,000 years, then unite the legions, then to Terra to fell the corpse god.

Lion: "Luther! 'Chu got some 'splainin' to dooooo!"

(The Lion produces a conga drum from under his cloak and strikes up the band)

Luther: "UWAAAAAAAAAAH!"