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2015/02/03 19:17:36
Subject: Is being embarked from "Combined Reserve Units" count as embarking?
Ghaz wrote: And the permission to embark on a Night Scythe is a recent deletion so you're back at square one.
The rules are on my side. You need to find a rule that blocks me from simply deploying them in the Night Scythe. At no point am I actually embarking them by deploying them in the Night Scythe.
I disagree. You've failed to prove allowance for ignoring part of the Transport Capacity rules, or picking and choosing which rules to follow.
Point out in the rules where I am required to go through the process of embarking the Praetorians.
Which isn't anything like what I just said.
Are you also arguing that I could fit 30 boyz in a Truck?
Jumping to a 'slippery slope' counter so soon? How about we stick with what the rules actually say first? Slippery slope falls into RAI or HYWPI.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/03 19:20:01
2015/02/03 19:23:21
Subject: Is being embarked from "Combined Reserve Units" count as embarking?
col_impact wrote: [Jumping to a 'slippery slope' counter so soon? How about we stick with what the rules actually say first? Slippery slope falls into RAI or HYWPI.
Actually no - I've asked you before but you keep sidestepping it...
How are you only attempting to apply half of the Transport Capacity rules?
Or are you stating that they don't apply whatsoever when you are magically embarked without embarking?
My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
2015/02/03 19:28:13
Subject: Is being embarked from "Combined Reserve Units" count as embarking?
col_impact wrote: [Jumping to a 'slippery slope' counter so soon? How about we stick with what the rules actually say first? Slippery slope falls into RAI or HYWPI.
Actually no - I've asked you before but you keep sidestepping it...
How are you only attempting to apply half of the Transport Capacity rules?
Or are you stating that they don't apply whatsoever when you are magically embarked without embarking?
Point out where in the rules I am required to go through the process of embarking the Praetorians when I am deploying them. You are the one resorting to magic, sir.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Here are the embarking rules which cannot apply by definition at deployment.
Spoiler:
EMBARKING AND DISEMBARKING
Models can only voluntarily embark or disembark in the Movement phase. They cannot
voluntarily embark and disembark in the same turn. However, they can embark and then
be forced to disembark if their Transport is destroyed.
Embarking
A unit can embark onto a vehicle by moving each model to within 2" of its
Access Points in the Movement phase – Difficult and Dangerous Terrain tests should
be taken as normal. The whole unit must be able to embark – if some models are out of
range, the entire unit must stay outside. When the unit embarks, remove it from the table
and place it aside, making a note that the unit is being transported. If the players need to
measure a range involving the embarked unit (except for its shooting), this range is
measured to or from the vehicle’s hull.
If the vehicle moved before its passengers got aboard, it cannot move further that turn
(including pivoting on the spot, moving Flat Out, Running or charging). If the vehicle did
not move before its passengers got aboard, it can move as normal after they have
embarked. In either case, a vehicle cannot Tank Shock or Ram in a turn that a unit
embarks upon it.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/02/03 19:33:57
2015/02/03 19:36:33
Subject: Is being embarked from "Combined Reserve Units" count as embarking?
col_impact wrote: [Jumping to a 'slippery slope' counter so soon? How about we stick with what the rules actually say first? Slippery slope falls into RAI or HYWPI.
Actually no - I've asked you before but you keep sidestepping it...
How are you only attempting to apply half of the Transport Capacity rules?
Or are you stating that they don't apply whatsoever when you are magically embarked without embarking?
Point out where in the rules I am required to go through the process of embarking the Praetorians when I am deploying them. You are the one resorting to magic, sir.
Spoiler:
TRANSPORT CAPACITY
Each Transport vehicle has a maximum passenger capacity that can never be exceeded. A Transport can carry a single Infantry unit and/or any number of Independent Characters (as long as they are also Infantry), up to a total number of models equal to the vehicle’s Transport Capacity. The entire unit must be embarked on the Transport if any part of it is – a unit cannot be partially embarked or be spread across multiple Transports.
Only Infantry models can embark upon Transports (this does not include Jump or Jet Pack Infantry), unless specifically stated otherwise. Some larger Infantry models count as more than one model for the purposes of Transport Capacity, and this will be specified in the model’s rules. Sometimes, there will be constraints on which types of models can embark upon a particular vehicle, and this will be specified in the unit’s entry. Space Marine Terminators, for example, cannot embark upon a Rhino or Razorback, although they can be transported by a Land Raider.
This is the rule you're ignoring. I'm not addressing and don't care about the embarking rules.
These rules specifically say that the passenger capacity can never be exceeded. Embarking Jump Infantry into a transport that doesn't specifically allow it is exceeding the Transport Capacity.
Please actually address my argument instead of dancing around it, pretending I'm saying things I'm not. You're the one that has stated the unit is embarked without ever actually embarking - hence my "magic" comment.
You're also the one who refuses to address the Transport Capacity rule that you're breaking without permission.
My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
2015/02/03 19:40:44
Subject: Is being embarked from "Combined Reserve Units" count as embarking?
col_impact wrote: [Jumping to a 'slippery slope' counter so soon? How about we stick with what the rules actually say first? Slippery slope falls into RAI or HYWPI.
Actually no - I've asked you before but you keep sidestepping it...
How are you only attempting to apply half of the Transport Capacity rules?
Or are you stating that they don't apply whatsoever when you are magically embarked without embarking?
Point out where in the rules I am required to go through the process of embarking the Praetorians when I am deploying them. You are the one resorting to magic, sir.
Spoiler:
TRANSPORT CAPACITY
Each Transport vehicle has a maximum passenger capacity that can never be exceeded. A Transport can carry a single Infantry unit and/or any number of Independent Characters (as long as they are also Infantry), up to a total number of models equal to the vehicle’s Transport Capacity. The entire unit must be embarked on the Transport if any part of it is – a unit cannot be partially embarked or be spread across multiple Transports.
Only Infantry models can embark upon Transports (this does not include Jump or Jet Pack Infantry), unless specifically stated otherwise. Some larger Infantry models count as more than one model for the purposes of Transport Capacity, and this will be specified in the model’s rules. Sometimes, there will be constraints on which types of models can embark upon a particular vehicle, and this will be specified in the unit’s entry. Space Marine Terminators, for example, cannot embark upon a Rhino or Razorback, although they can be transported by a Land Raider.
This is the rule you're ignoring. I'm not addressing and don't care about the embarking rules.
These rules specifically say that the passenger capacity can never be exceeded. Embarking Jump Infantry into a transport that doesn't specifically allow it is exceeding the Transport Capacity.
Please actually address my argument instead of dancing around it, pretending I'm saying things I'm not. You're the one that has stated the unit is embarked without ever actually embarking - hence my "magic" comment.
You're also the one who refuses to address the Transport Capacity rule that you're breaking without permission.
At what point in the rules am I embarking them when I deploy them? Page and paragraph please or are you arguing RAI that at some point I must have gone through a process of embarking them (which the rules forbid since I am only allowed to embark in movement)?
2015/02/03 19:43:07
Subject: Is being embarked from "Combined Reserve Units" count as embarking?
col_impact wrote: At what point in the rules am I embarking them when I deploy them? Page and paragraph please or are you arguing RAI that at some point I must have gone through a process of embarking them (which the rules forbid since I am only allowed to embark in movement)?
Again, I'm not saying you must be embarking them. Please actually read my argument.
Why are you ignoring the Transport Capacity rules? Simple question.
My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
2015/02/03 19:45:29
Subject: Is being embarked from "Combined Reserve Units" count as embarking?
col_impact wrote: At what point in the rules am I embarking them when I deploy them? Page and paragraph please or are you arguing RAI that at some point I must have gone through a process of embarking them (which the rules forbid since I am only allowed to embark in movement)?
Again, I'm not saying you must be embarking them. Please actually read my argument.
Why are you ignoring the Transport Capacity rules? Simple question.
What part of the Transport Capacity rule specifically do you think I am ignoring?
2015/02/03 19:45:40
Subject: Is being embarked from "Combined Reserve Units" count as embarking?
TRANSPORT CAPACITY
Each Transport vehicle has a maximum passenger capacity that can never be exceeded. A Transport can carry a single Infantry unit and/or any number of Independent Characters (as long as they are also Infantry), up to a total number of models equal to the vehicle’s Transport Capacity. The entire unit must be embarked on the Transport if any part of it is – a unit cannot be partially embarked or be spread across multiple Transports.
Only Infantry models can embark upon Transports (this does not include Jump or Jet Pack Infantry), unless specifically stated otherwise. Some larger Infantry models count as more than one model for the purposes of Transport Capacity, and this will be specified in the model’s rules. Sometimes, there will be constraints on which types of models can embark upon a particular vehicle, and this will be specified in the unit’s entry. Space Marine Terminators, for example, cannot embark upon a Rhino or Razorback, although they can be transported by a Land Raider.
Emphasis mine.
Where does it say it can carry jump infantry, or jet pack infantry? It says only infantry.
TRANSPORT CAPACITY
Each Transport vehicle has a maximum passenger capacity that can never be exceeded. A Transport can carry a single Infantry unit and/or any number of Independent Characters (as long as they are also Infantry), up to a total number of models equal to the vehicle’s Transport Capacity. The entire unit must be embarked on the Transport if any part of it is – a unit cannot be partially embarked or be spread across multiple Transports.
Only Infantry models can embark upon Transports (this does not include Jump or Jet Pack Infantry), unless specifically stated otherwise. Some larger Infantry models count as more than one model for the purposes of Transport Capacity, and this will be specified in the model’s rules. Sometimes, there will be constraints on which types of models can embark upon a particular vehicle, and this will be specified in the unit’s entry. Space Marine Terminators, for example, cannot embark upon a Rhino or Razorback, although they can be transported by a Land Raider.
Emphasis mine.
Where does it say it can carry jump infantry, or jet pack infantry? It says only infantry.
The rules gentlemen
Spoiler:
JUMP UNITS
Jump units are equipped with jump packs, wings, teleport devices or other
means of moving quickly over short distances. Unlike most other unit type
categories, ‘Jump’ is not a classification in and of itself. Instead, you’ll find it
occurs before another category – commonly Infantry, sometimes Monstrous
Creatures and perhaps, rarely, other things. Jump units therefore share two
sets of rules, the Jump unit rules, and those of their base type. Jump Infantry
would, for example, follow the rules for Jump units and Infantry.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/03 19:51:18
2015/02/03 19:54:57
Subject: Is being embarked from "Combined Reserve Units" count as embarking?
TRANSPORT CAPACITY
Each Transport vehicle has a maximum passenger capacity that can never be exceeded. A Transport can carry a single Infantry unit and/or any number of Independent Characters (as long as they are also Infantry), up to a total number of models equal to the vehicle’s Transport Capacity. The entire unit must be embarked on the Transport if any part of it is – a unit cannot be partially embarked or be spread across multiple Transports.
Only Infantry models can embark upon Transports (this does not include Jump or Jet Pack Infantry), unless specifically stated otherwise. Some larger Infantry models count as more than one model for the purposes of Transport Capacity, and this will be specified in the model’s rules. Sometimes, there will be constraints on which types of models can embark upon a particular vehicle, and this will be specified in the unit’s entry. Space Marine Terminators, for example, cannot embark upon a Rhino or Razorback, although they can be transported by a Land Raider.
Emphasis mine.
Where does it say it can carry jump infantry, or jet pack infantry? It says only infantry.
The rules gentlemen
Spoiler:
JUMP UNITS
Jump units are equipped with jump packs, wings, teleport devices or other
means of moving quickly over short distances. Unlike most other unit type
categories, ‘Jump’ is not a classification in and of itself. Instead, you’ll find it
occurs before another category – commonly Infantry, sometimes Monstrous
Creatures and perhaps, rarely, other things. Jump units therefore share two
sets of rules, the Jump unit rules, and those of their base type. Jump Infantry
would, for example, follow the rules for Jump units and Infantry.
"Only Infantry models can embark upon Transports (this does not include Jump or Jet Pack Infantry), unless specifically stated otherwise"
And now you're going to argue the word "embark". Good for you - the problem with that argument is that Transport Capacity is written to apply to units attempting to embark on a transport.
So either you ignore all of it or none of it. Please explain if you disagree and why.
My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
2015/02/03 19:59:01
Subject: Is being embarked from "Combined Reserve Units" count as embarking?
TRANSPORT CAPACITY
Each Transport vehicle has a maximum passenger capacity that can never be exceeded. A Transport can carry a single Infantry unit and/or any number of Independent Characters (as long as they are also Infantry), up to a total number of models equal to the vehicle’s Transport Capacity. The entire unit must be embarked on the Transport if any part of it is – a unit cannot be partially embarked or be spread across multiple Transports.
Only Infantry models can embark upon Transports (this does not include Jump or Jet Pack Infantry), unless specifically stated otherwise. Some larger Infantry models count as more than one model for the purposes of Transport Capacity, and this will be specified in the model’s rules. Sometimes, there will be constraints on which types of models can embark upon a particular vehicle, and this will be specified in the unit’s entry. Space Marine Terminators, for example, cannot embark upon a Rhino or Razorback, although they can be transported by a Land Raider.
Emphasis mine.
Where does it say it can carry jump infantry, or jet pack infantry? It says only infantry.
The rules gentlemen
Spoiler:
JUMP UNITS
Jump units are equipped with jump packs, wings, teleport devices or other
means of moving quickly over short distances. Unlike most other unit type
categories, ‘Jump’ is not a classification in and of itself. Instead, you’ll find it
occurs before another category – commonly Infantry, sometimes Monstrous
Creatures and perhaps, rarely, other things. Jump units therefore share two
sets of rules, the Jump unit rules, and those of their base type. Jump Infantry
would, for example, follow the rules for Jump units and Infantry.
"Only Infantry models can embark upon Transports (this does not include Jump or Jet Pack Infantry), unless specifically stated otherwise"
And now you're going to argue the word "embark". Good for you - the problem with that argument is that Transport Capacity is written to apply to units attempting to embark on a transport.
So either you ignore all of it or none of it. Please explain if you disagree and why.
At what point in the rules am I embarking them? What makes you think that rule gets triggered when I deploy them in the Night Scythe?
2015/02/03 19:59:45
Subject: Is being embarked from "Combined Reserve Units" count as embarking?
He is focusing on the Embark part. So he is saying that Jump Infantry and Jet pack infantry can start the game in transports, but is agreeing that they may not Embark in to a vehicle once they are on the board.
And they can start the game in the transport because the word "Embark" was used before the exclusion to jump and jet pack infantry but not earlier in the rule where it only mentioned infantry.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/02/03 20:03:00
col_impact wrote: At what point in the rules am I embarking them? What makes you think that rule gets triggered when I deploy them in the Night Scythe?
So you're saying the Transport Capacity rules don't apply to units deploying into Dedicated Transports?
I want to make sure I understand what you're saying.
My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
2015/02/03 20:02:14
Subject: Is being embarked from "Combined Reserve Units" count as embarking?
col_impact wrote: At what point in the rules am I embarking them? What makes you think that rule gets triggered when I deploy them in the Night Scythe?
So you're saying the Transport Capacity rules don't apply to units deploying into Dedicated Transports?
I want to make sure I understand what you're saying.
I am just following rules as they apply and not applying rules that aren't actually being called.
2015/02/03 20:03:05
Subject: Is being embarked from "Combined Reserve Units" count as embarking?
So now the OP's question becomes real. Is there a rule for "Embark"? or is it just "Embarking"
is the word Embark a finite definition that refers only to the step in the movement phase? Or in this instance is the word embark meant to just mean "be inside of " in a general term, and not a contract-like specific term.
So now the OP's question becomes real. Is there a rule for "Embark"? or is it just "Embarking"
is the word Embark a finite definition that refers only to the step in the movement phase? Or in this instance is the word embark meant to just mean "be inside of " in a general term, and not a contract-like specific term.
The only rules for embarking we have are restricted to the movement phase.
2015/02/03 20:10:19
Subject: Is being embarked from "Combined Reserve Units" count as embarking?
col_impact wrote: At what point in the rules am I embarking them? What makes you think that rule gets triggered when I deploy them in the Night Scythe?
So you're saying the Transport Capacity rules don't apply to units deploying into Dedicated Transports?
I want to make sure I understand what you're saying.
I am just following rules as they apply and not applying rules that aren't actually being called.
It's a yes or no question. Please answer it.
I assure you, it's entirely relevant.
My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals.
2015/02/03 20:11:08
Subject: Is being embarked from "Combined Reserve Units" count as embarking?
col_impact wrote: At what point in the rules am I embarking them? What makes you think that rule gets triggered when I deploy them in the Night Scythe?
So you're saying the Transport Capacity rules don't apply to units deploying into Dedicated Transports?
I want to make sure I understand what you're saying.
I am just following rules as they apply and not applying rules that aren't actually being called.
It's a yes or no question. Please answer it.
I assure you, it's entirely relevant.
How do the rules answer your question?
2015/02/03 20:11:33
Subject: Is being embarked from "Combined Reserve Units" count as embarking?
