Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
2015/03/12 05:05:44
Subject: Re:It is Finished. The Winners of the Great Game.
thedarkavenger wrote: Well. I'm done. I've been part of this game since I was a young boy. Been into warhammer as a concept since I was 6 and sat with my brother and his friends as they ran their WFRP campaigns. But, now, it's time to call it quits. I'm shelving all my warhammer as I don't want to be part of the community that supports any of the End Times releases.
Yep. I have about the same timeline with ya - brothers got me interesting at about the same age, and it bloomed from there. WFRP 1st edition sticks out in my mind as the real mood of warhammer fantasy.
Sad to see warhammer evolve the way it has recently. I have 6 FB (3k to 5k each) armies that I'm now more than tempted to sell.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/12 05:29:10
Age of Sigmar - It's sorta like a clogged toilet, where the muck crests over the rim and onto the floor. Somehow 'ground marines' were created from this...
2015/03/12 05:38:18
Subject: It is Finished. The Winners of the Great Game.
RunicFIN wrote: I guess apologist and realist are synonyms to you. Most of my views are based on how things are in reality. If that seems like apologist action to you, it means your view on reality is skewed, as you perceive reality as something else.
Seven months ago, the "realists" were saying all the End Times stuff was a load of ridiculous gak made up by a spanish blogger who just wanted some attention.
Because why would GW ever do such a thing.
And that has nothing to do with my views which have never been such.
Everyone who's ever given any sort of support, especially financial support by purchasing their products, to GW.
I should have expected no less. The ultimate 'F-U' from them: the game that put us on the map? Yeah, we're throwing it away like yesterday's newspaper.
Sigh.
CHAOS! PANIC! DISORDER!
My job here is done.
2015/03/12 06:41:35
Subject: It is Finished. The Winners of the Great Game.
Well they didn't say they'd discontinue fantasy entirely. I mean even in the game before the end times there were dead characters that we played just because we could. Certainly the editions as one person said before could happen 2 minutes till destruction. We just have the ending out of the way now.
Also who knows maybe this will help to launch some new fantasy setting and maybe freshen things up. The rumor of armored 'space marine' good guys kind of bummed me out (space marines helped kill 40k for me) but who knows. Let's wait and see.
I know it's looking kind of bad but all the details don't seem to be mentioned yet. I mean i personally haven't bought any of the end times books so all i've seen so far are excerpts.
flamingkillamajig wrote: Well they didn't say they'd discontinue fantasy entirely. I mean even in the game before the end times there were dead characters that we played just because we could. Certainly the editions as one person said before could happen 2 minutes till destruction. We just have the ending out of the way now.
Also who knows maybe this will help to launch some new fantasy setting and maybe freshen things up. The rumor of armored 'space marine' good guys kind of bummed me out (space marines helped kill 40k for me) but who knows. Let's wait and see.
I know it's looking kind of bad but all the details don't seem to be mentioned yet. I mean i personally haven't bought any of the end times books so all i've seen so far are excerpts.
The rules have consistently been abortions. Khaine broke an entire aspect of a game, rendering elves capable of tabling armies in a phase.
Thanquol introduced stupid battles rolls and bent units.
This is the best thing they could have done to be honest. There is so much bathwater in with the fantasy baby they had to rationalise some of it. I don't believe for a minute that they are chucking the whole thing out, but are definitely giving themselves carte blanche to restructure the fluff to suit the game as they see fit.
One thing they must know is that 9th, and whatever supplement follows it, have to be showstoppers. They now have massive pressure to draw us all in again.
Please imagine I wrote something funny here.....Something bloody hillarious....
....I know I didn't but lets pretend....
.....Smile, look at who posted the words that are making you happy, remember my name. Feel free to admire my wit. Aspire to emulate my good natured bonhomie.
2015/03/12 12:35:23
Subject: It is Finished. The Winners of the Great Game.
Deportivodeej wrote: This is the best thing they could have done to be honest. There is so much bathwater in with the fantasy baby they had to rationalise some of it. I don't believe for a minute that they are chucking the whole thing out, but are definitely giving themselves carte blanche to restructure the fluff to suit the game as they see fit.
One thing they must know is that 9th, and whatever supplement follows it, have to be showstoppers. They now have massive pressure to draw us all in again.
The edition could be perfect and it wouldn't be enough. GW have a precedent of wiping the slate thanks to the 5-6e transition.
I thought the ending is just as expected: If I'm not mistaken, that's what Lileath implied in End Times: Khaine. Good, so now they can completely revamp the WHFB rules and such to make it more fluffy and crunchy... Here's hoping GW doesn't up
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/12 12:50:00
2015/03/12 13:13:59
Subject: It is Finished. The Winners of the Great Game.
RunicFIN wrote: I guess apologist and realist are synonyms to you. Most of my views are based on how things are in reality. If that seems like apologist action to you, it means your view on reality is skewed, as you perceive reality as something else.
Seven months ago, the "realists" were saying all the End Times stuff was a load of ridiculous gak made up by a spanish blogger who just wanted some attention.
Because why would GW ever do such a thing.
When I say apologist I mean apologist. The only skew I'd put on it is that I mean something a bit more zealous than it's more neutral original meaning. We could argue back and forth about who's the biggest realist here, and it'd only be solved by what actually happens in 9th ed. We've both got precedent on our side: both GW's penchant for - as I say - ignoring vets, discarding games and editions, shaking up WH's minor rules and mechanics (note, not improving, just shaking up); and GW's penchant for stalling and retconning background, and reluctance to shake up major rules and mechanics. But if there's a shakeup coming because of WFB's selling slump, I'm willing to bet on GW's willingness to utterly disregard their own mishandling and their existing fans (indeed, even blame their existing fans. After all, the GW Hobby™ is buying GW products, regardless of price, quality of minis or especially quality of rules, 'cos the 'collector' fanbase doesn't care about those ) and throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Although on that note...
Deportivodeej wrote: This is the best thing they could have done to be honest. There is so much bathwater in with the fantasy baby they had to rationalise some of it.
Wha... um... 'bathwater'? You mean all that rich background that people are mourning, or something else?
Sigvatr: ah, okay. Sorry.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
lcmiracle wrote: Good, so now they can completely revamp the WHFB rules and such to make it more fluffy and crunchy...
Arguably, making it more 'fluffy' and 'crunchy' with gazillions of special rules is what helped kill WFB in the first place. Maybe that kind of thing will be more appropriate in a skirmish game (depending on what's meant by 'skirmish game' - a gang, or a modern platoon's-worth or two?) rather than the titanic battle game they wanted WFB to be, but I still think they need to focus on a bit more elegance rather than speed bumps. In rules terms, to me 'crunchy' and 'gritty' means a lot of little sharp points that stab your feet and slow you down when you try to stroll over them. (and you don't see them because of all that claggy fluff you have to wade through. )
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/03/12 13:24:16
Just dragging these over from the WHFB Khorne new releases thread as I haven't seen them on here
This is from Warseer
adicto wrote:
Spoiler:
Ungrim and the dwarfs defend Avenheim thanks to Gelt’s Crucible but, in the end, they sacrifice themselves while imperials and bretonnians flee. Ungrim’s slayers fight against Zhufbar’s hosts.
Nagash offers Mannfred to the elves as a sing of good will, snaring him in a prison made of death magic.
Be’lakor frees Mannfred and tells him the truth about Lileath. He is later found by Jerrod (Be’lakor’s plan all the time) and tells him the truth about Lileath. Jerrod lets Mannfred live, who then flees and calls her. She admits the truth, saying that she is the Lady of the Lake, and also that she pushed Bretonnia out of the Stone Age and saved them from the greenskins and themselves. She says that she won’t ask for forgiveness, because the sacrifice of Bretonnia was needed to create the Haven. Then Be’lakor appears when Jerrod is about to kill her. They both fight and the demon defeats Jerrod (but does not kill him), and turns to kill Lileath, but Malekith and Tyrion pop out and trap Be’lakor.
Jerrod returns to his people and tells them about the Lady. They decide not to fight alongside the treacherous elves, returning to Bretonnia. No more is known of them.
After the fall of Averheim, the Incarnates face the daemonic host. The battle is hopeless, so Lileath sacrifices willingly to Teclis in order to give him the needed power to move them to Middenheim. A titanic battle takes place there, and the incarnates travel to the caverns located beneath the city, where Archaon, the Swords of Chaos, and the 4 greater daemons with their respective hosts are waiting. Grimgor fights Arachaon and almost defeats him, but Archaon manages to kill the orc. Then Archaon faces Sigmar, the Emperor, who after a long battle defeats him, throwing him inside a rift created by the Old Ones’ artifact that the chaos guys activated to destroy the world. The surviving Incarnates, aided by Teclis (who now holds the winds of Fire and Beasts), try to close the rift. They could have succeeded, but Mannfred betrays his master (Nagash) killing Gelt. Teclis tries to absorb the wind of Metal, but fails and dies, so the rift feeds on them and sucks out all the Incarnate’s powers. Archaon appears again, climbing out of the rift, and faces SIgmar one more time. They both are last seen fighting against each other, with Ghal-Maraz being held by Archaon as Sigmar tried to smash him. Meanwhile, Malekith saves Alarielle from being crushed by debris, and then she and Tyrion turn their backs and walk away while the Eternity King dies in pain, with his legs crushed. They both look back at the growing rift while the darkness swallows them.
Game Over.
Here is the new and "improved" Army comp we shall be getting
Spoiler:
Thanks ClockworkZion for posting these in the other thread, props to you man
I was so tempted to start fantasy, I mean so tempted that I have 300 quid sitting aside specifically for that purpose, but with these radical overhauling of the game and the 30 odd years of back story I just don't want to now, I wouldn't even know where to begin because people can now bring anything to the game that they like. Hell they are going to have to change the categories of units now, how can a rare unit be considered rare when you can have an army of them!?!
I'm gone, so closely joined in, but nah, I'm gone.
Slaanesh: "Hey guys we're back! We brought presents. And yes, they ARE sexually suggestive"
Tzeentch: "So did we miss anything while we were away"
Khorne and Nurgle trade a shifty glance
Tzeentch: "Hey! Whos been touching my stuff! Where did my Old World go?!"
Khorne and Nurgle wander off whistling.
2015/03/12 13:41:43
Subject: It is Finished. The Winners of the Great Game.
Not to be rude, but there have been rules within these books which have only applied to campaign play.
It remains to be seen whether these are intended for "normal play" or not, but given that there is very clearly a "Designer's Note" set off to the side in that top photo? It might be that it talks about certain ideas that would offset the craziness.
2015/03/12 14:10:09
Subject: Re:It is Finished. The Winners of the Great Game.
jreilly89 wrote: Wait, so GW did End Times and delivered by ending it, abd people are mad? What?
We're upset at the fact that they did what we all wanted; refresh the game's setting. They then ruined it with abortions dressed as rules and coat hangers in the form of pretty models, for those more inclined to decline the abortions at face value.
jreilly89 wrote: Wait, so GW did End Times and delivered by ending it, abd people are mad? What?
We're upset at the fact that they did what we all wanted; refresh the game's setting. They then ruined it with abortions dressed as rules and coat hangers in the form of pretty models, for those more inclined to decline the abortions at face value.
Is it the Unbound part? I know most just house rule that out of 40k.
jreilly89 wrote: Wait, so GW did End Times and delivered by ending it, abd people are mad? What?
We're upset at the fact that they did what we all wanted; refresh the game's setting. They then ruined it with abortions dressed as rules and coat hangers in the form of pretty models, for those more inclined to decline the abortions at face value.
I honestly ignore most of what you say but this, bravo sir bravo.
RoperPG wrote: Blimey, it's very salty in here...
Any more vegans want to put forth their opinions on bacon?
2015/03/12 14:36:35
Subject: It is Finished. The Winners of the Great Game.
In 40k, though, Unfun and Normal games are seperated by name. Reading the leak as of now just says that all armies must use the crappy new system, thus you have to indeed house-rule army selection to 8th.
Yeah, 9th is dead. Unbound ruined 40k and now ruins WHFB. Awesome.
Ward left the company in May 2014.
Wood Elves was his last project; and even that was likely he had very little involvement as the book is pretty inconsistent with his design work.
The Wild Rider/Sisters of the Thorn and Eternal Guard/Wildwood Ranger kits have 2013 as their copyright date on the frames.
The new Wild Rider mount made its first appearance in "Orion: Tears of Isha", which released August 2013--so you're looking at least for late 2012/early 2013 for the finalized design work to be done.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/12 14:47:57
2015/03/12 14:42:13
Subject: It is Finished. The Winners of the Great Game.
Sigvatr wrote: In 40k, though, Unfun and Normal games are seperated by name. Reading the leak as of now just says that all armies must use the crappy new system, thus you have to indeed house-rule army selection to 8th.
How so? In 40k, Unbound is legal for any game, tournies house rule it out.
jreilly89 wrote: Wait, so GW did End Times and delivered by ending it, abd people are mad? What?
We're upset at the fact that they did what we all wanted; refresh the game's setting. They then ruined it with abortions dressed as rules and coat hangers in the form of pretty models, for those more inclined to decline the abortions at face value.
Is it the Unbound part? I know most just house rule that out of 40k.
No. It's the stuff like uniting three of the top tier armies so that you can get a combined army with every strength and zero downsides.
Releasing units and formations that are clearly inbalanced when compared to the rest of warhammer.
The entire End Times has been a slew of bad rules, released one book at a time.
tomball0706 wrote: Just dragging these over from the WHFB Khorne new releases thread as I haven't seen them on here
This is from Warseer
adicto wrote:
Spoiler:
Ungrim and the dwarfs defend Avenheim thanks to Gelt’s Crucible but, in the end, they sacrifice themselves while imperials and bretonnians flee. Ungrim’s slayers fight against Zhufbar’s hosts.
Nagash offers Mannfred to the elves as a sing of good will, snaring him in a prison made of death magic.
Be’lakor frees Mannfred and tells him the truth about Lileath. He is later found by Jerrod (Be’lakor’s plan all the time) and tells him the truth about Lileath. Jerrod lets Mannfred live, who then flees and calls her. She admits the truth, saying that she is the Lady of the Lake, and also that she pushed Bretonnia out of the Stone Age and saved them from the greenskins and themselves. She says that she won’t ask for forgiveness, because the sacrifice of Bretonnia was needed to create the Haven. Then Be’lakor appears when Jerrod is about to kill her. They both fight and the demon defeats Jerrod (but does not kill him), and turns to kill Lileath, but Malekith and Tyrion pop out and trap Be’lakor.
Jerrod returns to his people and tells them about the Lady. They decide not to fight alongside the treacherous elves, returning to Bretonnia. No more is known of them.
After the fall of Averheim, the Incarnates face the daemonic host. The battle is hopeless, so Lileath sacrifices willingly to Teclis in order to give him the needed power to move them to Middenheim. A titanic battle takes place there, and the incarnates travel to the caverns located beneath the city, where Archaon, the Swords of Chaos, and the 4 greater daemons with their respective hosts are waiting. Grimgor fights Arachaon and almost defeats him, but Archaon manages to kill the orc. Then Archaon faces Sigmar, the Emperor, who after a long battle defeats him, throwing him inside a rift created by the Old Ones’ artifact that the chaos guys activated to destroy the world. The surviving Incarnates, aided by Teclis (who now holds the winds of Fire and Beasts), try to close the rift. They could have succeeded, but Mannfred betrays his master (Nagash) killing Gelt. Teclis tries to absorb the wind of Metal, but fails and dies, so the rift feeds on them and sucks out all the Incarnate’s powers. Archaon appears again, climbing out of the rift, and faces SIgmar one more time. They both are last seen fighting against each other, with Ghal-Maraz being held by Archaon as Sigmar tried to smash him. Meanwhile, Malekith saves Alarielle from being crushed by debris, and then she and Tyrion turn their backs and walk away while the Eternity King dies in pain, with his legs crushed. They both look back at the growing rift while the darkness swallows them.
Game Over.
I feel like I just watched that South Park episode about the Wrestling Takedown Federation.
Wha... um... 'bathwater'? You mean all that rich background that people are mourning, or something else?
Yep, a lot of it can be rehashed for my money. There's just too much, it's too old, I'm sure the weight of it must be a burden that actually stops new fluff being as good as it could be.
Please imagine I wrote something funny here.....Something bloody hillarious....
....I know I didn't but lets pretend....
.....Smile, look at who posted the words that are making you happy, remember my name. Feel free to admire my wit. Aspire to emulate my good natured bonhomie.
2015/03/12 17:20:30
Subject: Re:It is Finished. The Winners of the Great Game.
Wha... um... 'bathwater'? You mean all that rich background that people are mourning, or something else?
Yep, a lot of it can be rehashed for my money. There's just too much, it's too old, I'm sure the weight of it must be a burden that actually stops new fluff being as good as it could be.
...how so? I'm genuinely curious, the background was always my favorite part and I tended to like the older stuff more. What would you have changed?
2015/03/12 17:43:42
Subject: Re:It is Finished. The Winners of the Great Game.
Wha... um... 'bathwater'? You mean all that rich background that people are mourning, or something else?
Yep, a lot of it can be rehashed for my money. There's just too much, it's too old, I'm sure the weight of it must be a burden that actually stops new fluff being as good as it could be.
...how so? I'm genuinely curious, the background was always my favorite part and I tended to like the older stuff more. What would you have changed?
The background has been exactly the fething same for decades now. It's not as though an end of new content for that world invalidates your enjoyment of it. You can continue to love it in exactly the same static, unchanging state it's been in since the beginning. Just now that story has a nice, clean (and comparably well-written) ending to it, and the rest of us can go about enjoying NEW fluff. I for one am excited to see a world where the conflict isn't entirely driven by the clock being stuck at 2 minutes to midnight for all of eternity.
2015/03/12 18:01:44
Subject: It is Finished. The Winners of the Great Game.
30 years of fluff straight in the bin with a total anticlimax. Once upon a time the forces of Chaos were about to devour the world. So they did. The end.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/12 19:01:19
Driven away from WH40K by rules bloat and the expense of keeping up, now interested in smaller model count games and anything with nifty mechanics.
2015/03/12 18:02:23
Subject: Re:It is Finished. The Winners of the Great Game.
I think we might disagree on the "well-written" part.
And don't mistake me, I would have liked to see things change, but...y'know. Not wiped away. Add to the story, don't end it. I never saw the Warhammer world as stuck at two minutes to midnight, unlike 40k - the apocalypse happened in sixth and seventh edition, Archaon turned up and wrecked most of the northern empire, and the cool part was that people picked up their lives afterward and got on with them. Things were more dangerous, cities were in ruin, warbands of beastmen and greenskins were lurking in the forests, and the Empire nearly underwent a religious schism, but it was still recognizable as the same world. More of that, please!
I know that I'm not changing anything by grumbling over the internet, just getting my opinion out there. I fully intend to still appreciate the setting I love, but it's disappointing that it isn't the official one any more and I won't be getting excited over...I don't know, a campaign focused on the Dark Lands or miniature releases specifically for the Border Princes. Glad you're enjoying the direction they've taken!
up
) and throw the baby out with the bathwater. 
~1.5k
